All Blacks 2024
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
I'm most excited about Telea. He was outstanding in France. Really hope he kicks on. The Jordie-Reiko combo also has huge potential even if Reiko is a better winger
I feel like the players that enhanced their reputation for the ABs and solidified their positions moving forward were Ardie Savea (for obvious reasons), Jordie Barrett, Tyrel Lomax, Cam Roigard, Mark Telea, Fletcher Newell, Tamaiti Williams, Reiko Ioane, Will Jordan and Scott Barrett. Those players will be the foundation for the ABs going forward IMO.
I'd agree with all of that except Jordan, who shit the bed in the big games.
Did Reiko Ioane really ‘enhance’ his reputation ?
I think the guy who really enhanced his reputation was Shannon Frizell who went from ‘why is he in the team?’ to ‘undroppable’ on the back of one game vs SA
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Did Reiko Ioane really ‘enhance’ his reputation ?
I think he's still work in progress in some ways but has come on in leaps and bounds and his defence and organisation has been good. Hard to believe he's only 26 when he seems to have been on the ABs forever.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
That young Riley Higgins from the canes looks ok
Ta. Will look out for him a bit more closely.
Any news on QT's recovery?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Any news on QT's recovery?
He played half a dozen games in the NPC
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@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We all know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Did Reiko Ioane really ‘enhance’ his reputation ?
I think he's still work in progress in some ways but has come on in leaps and bounds and his defence and organisation has been good. Hard to believe he's only 26 when he seems to have been on the ABs forever.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Did Reiko Ioane really ‘enhance’ his reputation ?
I think he's still work in progress in some ways but has come on in leaps and bounds and his defence and organisation has been good. Hard to believe he's only 26 when he seems to have been on the ABs forever.
Six years is hardly forever
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We all know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
I hope that's temporary, 2nd year stuff. His throwing seemed to go to shit this year while last year it was outstanding. An on-form Samisoni Taukei'aho is a real asset.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
Who's KT?
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
Taylor didn't play much better unless you're comparing him to the dogshit that was Taylor the year before. Why didn't ST get the same chance to show his value? He got the odd game here and there, despite being a better player. He's a much better player than Taylor and just needs actual minutes, sitting in the stands doesn't make you look great.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
Taylor didn't play much better unless you're comparing him to the dogshit that was Taylor the year before. Why didn't ST get the same chance to show his value? He got the odd game here and there, despite being a better player. He's a much better player than Taylor and just needs actual minutes, sitting in the stands doesn't make you look great.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
Taylor didn't play much better unless you're comparing him to the dogshit that was Taylor the year before. Why didn't ST get the same chance to show his value? He got the odd game here and there, despite being a better player. He's a much better player than Taylor and just needs actual minutes, sitting in the stands doesn't make you look great.
I think that’s a problem a lot of players have in terms of not achieving greatness
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
I hope that's temporary, 2nd year stuff. His throwing seemed to go to shit this year while last year it was outstanding. An on-form Samisoni Taukei'aho is a real asset.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
Who's KT?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
I hope that's temporary, 2nd year stuff. His throwing seemed to go to shit this year while last year it was outstanding. An on-form Samisoni Taukei'aho is a real asset.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
Who's KT?
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
Did Reiko Ioane really ‘enhance’ his reputation ?
I think he's still work in progress in some ways but has come on in leaps and bounds and his defence and organisation has been good. Hard to believe he's only 26 when he seems to have been on the ABs forever.
@Victor-Meldrew personally I am happy with Ioane, he was strong on the carry and defense. He formed a good partnership with Barrett. He showed some good soft passes like the try for Savea against Ireland. I think the gameplan in the final was poor and he ended up pushing a few passes he shouldn't have and dropped a few pills. But generally I would keep them as a partnership and allow them time to grow. We have been blessed in the 13 jumper with Smith, Umaga and Bunce but we remember them at their peak. I would give Ioane time. I like having a physical threat at 13 who keeps the defense honest and creates more space for the wings because they can't drift outwards lest he scores like he did against France in 22.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
I'm most excited about Telea. He was outstanding in France. Really hope he kicks on. The Jordie-Reiko combo also has huge potential even if Reiko is a better winger
I feel like the players that enhanced their reputation for the ABs and solidified their positions moving forward were Ardie Savea (for obvious reasons), Jordie Barrett, Tyrel Lomax, Cam Roigard, Mark Telea, Fletcher Newell, Tamaiti Williams, Reiko Ioane, Will Jordan and Scott Barrett. Those players will be the foundation for the ABs going forward IMO.
Taukeiaho
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@Victor-Meldrew personally I am happy with Ioane, he was strong on the carry and defense. He formed a good partnership with Barrett. He showed some good soft passes like the try for Savea against Ireland. I think the gameplan in the final was poor and he ended up pushing a few passes he shouldn't have and dropped a few pills. But generally I would keep them as a partnership and allow them time to grow. We have been blessed in the 13 jumper with Smith, Umaga and Bunce but we remember them at their peak. I would give Ioane time. I like having a physical threat at 13 who keeps the defense honest and creates more space for the wings because they can't drift outwards lest he scores like he did against France in 22.
Agree with that. Needs to learn how to hold the ball better too. The likes of Conrad and Ma'a creates tries by how and where the held the ball.
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@Victor-Meldrew personally I am happy with Ioane, he was strong on the carry and defense. He formed a good partnership with Barrett. He showed some good soft passes like the try for Savea against Ireland. I think the gameplan in the final was poor and he ended up pushing a few passes he shouldn't have and dropped a few pills. But generally I would keep them as a partnership and allow them time to grow. We have been blessed in the 13 jumper with Smith, Umaga and Bunce but we remember them at their peak. I would give Ioane time. I like having a physical threat at 13 who keeps the defense honest and creates more space for the wings because they can't drift outwards lest he scores like he did against France in 22.
@Blunders yeah he's come on hugely in his carrying into defence, so a definite string added to his bow. His option taking in space still needs work but hopefully he doesn't get used as much in the carrying into defence role and can get running some great lines at pace and develop his vision.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Bones not sure he enhanced his reputation given he dropped down and was a toss up between him and Coles, Taylor def did (bar a few mis-fires in the final) and Coles had regained some earlier career form and desperately unlucky not to make the final.
We wll know ST is our best hooker, but if you don't get to play, you generally look shit in your random cameos. I wasn't really thinking about just the RWC.
Well no he wasn’t, Taylor played much better after being shit the year before whereas ST went backwards.
Apologies for the abbreviation but trying to spell his name is a pain in the arse after a few beers, I’m glad OT and KT aren’t in the conversation.
Taylor didn't play much better unless you're comparing him to the dogshit that was Taylor the year before. Why didn't ST get the same chance to show his value? He got the odd game here and there, despite being a better player. He's a much better player than Taylor and just needs actual minutes, sitting in the stands doesn't make you look great.
@Bones I think Taylor was excellent this year, although not as good in the final.
Agree though re ST not.being afforded the same opportunities to play back into form as Taylor did previously, when his form was considerably worse, but still doesn't take away from Taylor being very good this year.
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@Bones I think Taylor was excellent this year, although not as good in the final.
Agree though re ST not.being afforded the same opportunities to play back into form as Taylor did previously, when his form was considerably worse, but still doesn't take away from Taylor being very good this year.
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I really think that Aumua needs to be brought into the ABs this year - that would make a very strong group of hookers
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What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?
This is tough one. To really answer it, I have to mention some of my AB midfield pet peeves:
- Picking players out of position (e.g. fullbacks or wingers at 13)
- I love pace at 13. However, I generally dislike the play of Winger/Centre hybrid players (e.g. Ennor).
- There is a bit of a logjam Ito NPC midfield talent getting meaningful Super Rugby gametime. So, the chances of AB Bolters are not high ATM imo.
It's very frustrating watching Ioane play at 13 for the ABs. Their outside backs are traditionally their strength and his distribution is not great. JB at 12 is pretty good.
Possible bolters:
- Levi Aumua (gainline tank with better than expected passing & offloading skills). He reminds me of the hedgehog in the fox and hedgehog story. The Fox does many things well, but the hedgehog does one thing extremely well and prevails.
- Super Young guns: Meihana Grindlay & Riley Higgins. Not saying make them the ABs first choice combo, but IF they get Super Rugby gametime and go well, they could be EOY tour bolters in 2024 or 2025. Again, see pet peeve number 3 above
- PPL have cooled on him (perhaps myself included), but PUJ has the all-round game for 13 that many of the other previously capped candidates lack and he's at that age that post-2015 AB selectors love (midfield players supposedly reach maturity in their mid-to-late 20s).
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?
This is tough one. To really answer it, I have to mention some of my AB midfield pet peeves:
- Picking players out of position (e.g. fullbacks or wingers at 13)
- I love pace at 13. However, I generally dislike the play of Winger/Centre hybrid players (e.g. Ennor).
- There is a bit of a logjam Ito NPC midfield talent getting meaningful Super Rugby gametime. So, the chances of AB Bolters are not high ATM imo.
It's very frustrating watching Ioane play at 13 for the ABs. Their outside backs are traditionally their strength and his distribution is not great. JB at 12 is pretty good.
Possible bolters:
- Levi Aumua (gainline tank with better than expected passing & offloading skills). He reminds me of the hedgehog in the fox and hedgehog story. The Fox does many things well, but the hedgehog does one thing extremely well and prevails.
- Super Young guns: Meihana Grindlay & Riley Higgins. Not saying make them the ABs first choice combo, but IF they get Super Rugby gametime and go well, they could be EOY tour bolters in 2024 or 2025. Again, see pet peeve number 3 above
- PPL have cooled on him (perhaps myself included), but PUJ has the all-round game for 13 that many of the other previously capped candidates lack and he's at that age that post-2015 AB selectors love (midfield players supposedly reach maturity in their mid-to-late 20s).
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?
This is tough one. To really answer it, I have to mention some of my AB midfield pet peeves:
- Picking players out of position (e.g. fullbacks or wingers at 13)
- I love pace at 13. However, I generally dislike the play of Winger/Centre hybrid players (e.g. Ennor).
- There is a bit of a logjam Ito NPC midfield talent getting meaningful Super Rugby gametime. So, the chances of AB Bolters are not high ATM imo.
It's very frustrating watching Ioane play at 13 for the ABs. Their outside backs are traditionally their strength and his distribution is not great. JB at 12 is pretty good.
Possible bolters:
- Levi Aumua (gainline tank with better than expected passing & offloading skills). He reminds me of the hedgehog in the fox and hedgehog story. The Fox does many things well, but the hedgehog does one thing extremely well and prevails.
- Super Young guns: Meihana Grindlay & Riley Higgins. Not saying make them the ABs first choice combo, but IF they get Super Rugby gametime and go well, they could be EOY tour bolters in 2024 or 2025. Again, see pet peeve number 3 above
- PPL have cooled on him (perhaps myself included), but PUJ has the all-round game for 13 that many of the other previously capped candidates lack and he's at that age that post-2015 AB selectors love (midfield players supposedly reach maturity in their mid-to-late 20s).
add to point 2 gideon-wrampling
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?
This is tough one. To really answer it, I have to mention some of my AB midfield pet peeves:
- Picking players out of position (e.g. fullbacks or wingers at 13)
- I love pace at 13. However, I generally dislike the play of Winger/Centre hybrid players (e.g. Ennor).
- There is a bit of a logjam Ito NPC midfield talent getting meaningful Super Rugby gametime. So, the chances of AB Bolters are not high ATM imo.
It's very frustrating watching Ioane play at 13 for the ABs. Their outside backs are traditionally their strength and his distribution is not great. JB at 12 is pretty good.
Possible bolters:
- Levi Aumua (gainline tank with better than expected passing & offloading skills). He reminds me of the hedgehog in the fox and hedgehog story. The Fox does many things well, but the hedgehog does one thing extremely well and prevails.
- Super Young guns: Meihana Grindlay & Riley Higgins. Not saying make them the ABs first choice combo, but IF they get Super Rugby gametime and go well, they could be EOY tour bolters in 2024 or 2025. Again, see pet peeve number 3 above
- PPL have cooled on him (perhaps myself included), but PUJ has the all-round game for 13 that many of the other previously capped candidates lack and he's at that age that post-2015 AB selectors love (midfield players supposedly reach maturity in their mid-to-late 20s).
Great, thanks. Will watch out for these guys.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - no interminable Foster arguments:
What are peoples thoughts on midfield? Any bolters? QT?
This is tough one. To really answer it, I have to mention some of my AB midfield pet peeves:
- Picking players out of position (e.g. fullbacks or wingers at 13)
- I love pace at 13. However, I generally dislike the play of Winger/Centre hybrid players (e.g. Ennor).
- There is a bit of a logjam Ito NPC midfield talent getting meaningful Super Rugby gametime. So, the chances of AB Bolters are not high ATM imo.
It's very frustrating watching Ioane play at 13 for the ABs. Their outside backs are traditionally their strength and his distribution is not great. JB at 12 is pretty good.
Possible bolters:
- Levi Aumua (gainline tank with better than expected passing & offloading skills). He reminds me of the hedgehog in the fox and hedgehog story. The Fox does many things well, but the hedgehog does one thing extremely well and prevails.
- Super Young guns: Meihana Grindlay & Riley Higgins. Not saying make them the ABs first choice combo, but IF they get Super Rugby gametime and go well, they could be EOY tour bolters in 2024 or 2025. Again, see pet peeve number 3 above
- PPL have cooled on him (perhaps myself included), but PUJ has the all-round game for 13 that many of the other previously capped candidates lack and he's at that age that post-2015 AB selectors love (midfield players supposedly reach maturity in their mid-to-late 20s).
@Punch_up lol what? Have a crack at RI's distribution but JB is pretty good? That's a crack up.
JB is super limited in vision and passing. Bless him he's a big munter though
