All Blacks 2024
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tough first year, and given the NZ rugby public is so very forgiving of losses, i expect even more conservative selecting.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
i expect even more conservative selecting
If things don’t go well I expect he’ll retreat to a Canterblacks side
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
i expect even more conservative selecting
If things don’t go well I expect he’ll retreat to a Canterblacks side
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
i expect even more conservative selecting
If things don’t go well I expect he’ll retreat to a Canterblacks side
Sounds like he is already trying to import one.
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This feels like a pretty important 6 months for NZ rugby.
We've come off a pretty good WC campaign that fell only just short. We've lost some absolute greats of AB rugby. There's a new bloke at the helm. It's got "new dawn" written all over it. And am i right that it's England coming mid-year?
But there are question marks. We're extraordinarily shallow at the very top in most positions. The greats that have gone have left huge holes to fill. Most of the pack needs to be rebuilt. There is no established or experienced 10 options (short of reverting to a proven failure). And the finger of blame for this needs to be pointed at the Super Coaches, a couple of which are now in charge of the top team. This year really will show what our development pathways are made of. Are we still producers of talent? Can we still develop talent? There are legitimate question marks there.
Are the new coaches ready to move on from "not bad but not great" guys like BB, Taylor, and Cane or is this going to be a very soft and very slow revolution?
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
This feels like a pretty important 6 months for NZ rugby
I think it's an important to look at 12-18 months rather than 6 months
Henry/Hansen/Smith took until End of year Tour of their first year to really start sorting things out - intially they picked a few journeymen like Xavier Rush and Jono Gibbes before changing tack.
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Cattle-wise we're only okay really, not great - it could get pretty rough if we cop a couple of injuries to the wrong guys. Coach-wise - all the surf jesus 'oh but what if he fails' bullshit is nonsense - he's not the saviour, but at least he's a guy who has won consistently and has earned a shot. He won't have an easy ride, because he's lost several great and massively experienced players - our two best ever locks, and our best ever halfback, and our starting 10 - and that's the guts of a team. it's a rebuilding phase, which is fine. as long as we play some decent rugby and see some progress.
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Cattle-wise we're only okay really, not great - it could get pretty rough if we cop a couple of injuries to the wrong guys. Coach-wise - all the surf jesus 'oh but what if he fails' bullshit is nonsense - he's not the saviour, but at least he's a guy who has won consistently and has earned a shot. He won't have an easy ride, because he's lost several great and massively experienced players - our two best ever locks, and our best ever halfback, and our starting 10 - and that's the guts of a team. it's a rebuilding phase, which is fine. as long as we play some decent rugby and see some progress.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Cattle-wise we're only okay really, not great - it could get pretty rough if we cop a couple of injuries to the wrong guys. Coach-wise - all the surf jesus 'oh but what if he fails' bullshit is nonsense - he's not the saviour, but at least he's a guy who has won consistently and has earned a shot. He won't have an easy ride, because he's lost several great and massively experienced players - our two best ever locks, and our best ever halfback, and our starting 10 - and that's the guts of a team. it's a rebuilding phase, which is fine. as long as we play some decent rugby and see some progress.
This! It is a very inexperienced coaching line up at international level as well as a player drain but if we see innovation, a clear improvement/progress in areas that need it, I'll be happy. With Henry, when mistakes were made (e.g. trying to avoid lineouts vs Boks in 2009 for example), you could plainly see the correction process afterward.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Cattle-wise we're only okay really, not great - it could get pretty rough if we cop a couple of injuries to the wrong guys. Coach-wise - all the surf jesus 'oh but what if he fails' bullshit is nonsense - he's not the saviour, but at least he's a guy who has won consistently and has earned a shot. He won't have an easy ride, because he's lost several great and massively experienced players - our two best ever locks, and our best ever halfback, and our starting 10 - and that's the guts of a team. it's a rebuilding phase, which is fine. as long as we play some decent rugby and see some progress.
This! It is a very inexperienced coaching line up at international level as well as a player drain but if we see innovation, a clear improvement/progress in areas that need it, I'll be happy. With Henry, when mistakes were made (e.g. trying to avoid lineouts vs Boks in 2009 for example), you could plainly see the correction process afterward.
@Old-Samurai-Jack but Henry also almost got dumped, it was a bit of a miracle he didn't - because he didn't have an utter shit show preceding him. I think people are a lot more willing to give Jesus a bit of leeway because we've got used to poor performance. He might even be as good as Hart I reckon.
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This feels like a pretty important 6 months for NZ rugby.
We've come off a pretty good WC campaign that fell only just short. We've lost some absolute greats of AB rugby. There's a new bloke at the helm. It's got "new dawn" written all over it. And am i right that it's England coming mid-year?
But there are question marks. We're extraordinarily shallow at the very top in most positions. The greats that have gone have left huge holes to fill. Most of the pack needs to be rebuilt. There is no established or experienced 10 options (short of reverting to a proven failure). And the finger of blame for this needs to be pointed at the Super Coaches, a couple of which are now in charge of the top team. This year really will show what our development pathways are made of. Are we still producers of talent? Can we still develop talent? There are legitimate question marks there.
Are the new coaches ready to move on from "not bad but not great" guys like BB, Taylor, and Cane or is this going to be a very soft and very slow revolution?
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Are the new coaches ready to move on from "not bad but not great" guys like BB, Taylor, and Cane or is this going to be a very soft and very slow revolution?
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
FWIW, I think Robertson may well be quite conservative in his first year as he gets his feet under the table, and gets some experience of Test rugby. Would like to see some innovative selections/development plans, though, sooner rather than later
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This feels like a pretty important 6 months for NZ rugby.
We've come off a pretty good WC campaign that fell only just short. We've lost some absolute greats of AB rugby. There's a new bloke at the helm. It's got "new dawn" written all over it. And am i right that it's England coming mid-year?
But there are question marks. We're extraordinarily shallow at the very top in most positions. The greats that have gone have left huge holes to fill. Most of the pack needs to be rebuilt. There is no established or experienced 10 options (short of reverting to a proven failure). And the finger of blame for this needs to be pointed at the Super Coaches, a couple of which are now in charge of the top team. This year really will show what our development pathways are made of. Are we still producers of talent? Can we still develop talent? There are legitimate question marks there.
Are the new coaches ready to move on from "not bad but not great" guys like BB, Taylor, and Cane or is this going to be a very soft and very slow revolution?
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
... there are question marks. We're extraordinarily shallow at the very top in most positions... Most of the pack needs to be rebuilt. There is no established or experienced 10 options (short of reverting to a proven failure).
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
Going to take issue with you re lack of depth and rebuild. Only in some positions.
Re the pack:
We've got the incumbent 2 x 2 (LH TH) best props from last year. Young but good already.
More depth? Would be good but we've got our game day sorted (sans injury).
Hooker: got the guy who was just about our best the year before last. Hopefully gets back to that.
More depth? Aumua (apparently busting out the the bench press ... ), Bell, but yes, looking for more here.
Lock: I'll agree here because after Scooter it's development. Lord I expect to step up. Vaa'i ... as much as I'm a fan ... jury is out. A spot we do need to build on.
Loosies: we're covered pretty well. Ardie, Dalton, Finau, Blackadder, Cane (some thought he may be back), Grace, Jacobsen. Sotutu, Ioane. Flanders ETC. But i can't imagine there's not a whole heap of young fullas lining up.Loosies don't worry me.
Half back: Roidgard & Christie for a start. Then let's consider Roe, Ratima, Hotham, Fakatava. And TJP if we're worried about experience.
10: you suggesting DMac is a failure? I don't buy that. His runs at 10 have generally been good.
After him though? Interesting times. Perofeta, Bergus Furke, and ... ?
Midfield: Barrett, Ioane, ALB, Havili, Ennor ... then Aumua ... then ...
Wings we're OK for.
The question is what we do at fullback, (Jordan) and what depth do we have there? Am fanboi of Sullivan.
In my opinion we have the basis of an extremely good squad, with room. For some exciting noobs.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
... there are question marks. We're extraordinarily shallow at the very top in most positions... Most of the pack needs to be rebuilt. There is no established or experienced 10 options (short of reverting to a proven failure).
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
Going to take issue with you re lack of depth and rebuild. Only in some positions.
Re the pack:
We've got the incumbent 2 x 2 (LH TH) best props from last year. Young but good already.
More depth? Would be good but we've got our game day sorted (sans injury).
Hooker: got the guy who was just about our best the year before last. Hopefully gets back to that.
More depth? Aumua (apparently busting out the the bench press ... ), Bell, but yes, looking for more here.
Lock: I'll agree here because after Scooter it's development. Lord I expect to step up. Vaa'i ... as much as I'm a fan ... jury is out. A spot we do need to build on.
Loosies: we're covered pretty well. Ardie, Dalton, Finau, Blackadder, Cane (some thought he may be back), Grace, Jacobsen. Sotutu, Ioane. Flanders ETC. But i can't imagine there's not a whole heap of young fullas lining up.Loosies don't worry me.
Half back: Roidgard & Christie for a start. Then let's consider Roe, Ratima, Hotham, Fakatava. And TJP if we're worried about experience.
10: you suggesting DMac is a failure? I don't buy that. His runs at 10 have generally been good.
After him though? Interesting times. Perofeta, Bergus Furke, and ... ?
Midfield: Barrett, Ioane, ALB, Havili, Ennor ... then Aumua ... then ...
Wings we're OK for.
The question is what we do at fullback, (Jordan) and what depth do we have there? Am fanboi of Sullivan.
In my opinion we have the basis of an extremely good squad, with room. For some exciting noobs.
@booboo Agree about the solid depth.
I'd just make the following changes:
Lock: Invest in the younger, more physical players to partner S.Barret (Lord, Holland when he becomes eligible, and/or even Parkinson)
Halfback: Delete Christie
Midfield: Delete Ennor
I would add that most uncapped options at fullbacks are potentially much better at 15 than Beauden and some even have more strings to their bow than Jordan
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You'll see an improvement in game plan straight away. Key is a logical plan and fine detail.
The prof will then cast an eye over things. -
I'm hoping Roigard is another McCaw. Never thought I'd see a more effective 7 than Jones, but did, just.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
... there are question marks. We're extraordinarily shallow at the very top in most positions... Most of the pack needs to be rebuilt. There is no established or experienced 10 options (short of reverting to a proven failure).
It could be fun. it could also be disappointing.
Going to take issue with you re lack of depth and rebuild. Only in some positions.
Re the pack:
We've got the incumbent 2 x 2 (LH TH) best props from last year. Young but good already.
More depth? Would be good but we've got our game day sorted (sans injury).
Hooker: got the guy who was just about our best the year before last. Hopefully gets back to that.
More depth? Aumua (apparently busting out the the bench press ... ), Bell, but yes, looking for more here.
Lock: I'll agree here because after Scooter it's development. Lord I expect to step up. Vaa'i ... as much as I'm a fan ... jury is out. A spot we do need to build on.
Loosies: we're covered pretty well. Ardie, Dalton, Finau, Blackadder, Cane (some thought he may be back), Grace, Jacobsen. Sotutu, Ioane. Flanders ETC. But i can't imagine there's not a whole heap of young fullas lining up.Loosies don't worry me.
Half back: Roidgard & Christie for a start. Then let's consider Roe, Ratima, Hotham, Fakatava. And TJP if we're worried about experience.
10: you suggesting DMac is a failure? I don't buy that. His runs at 10 have generally been good.
After him though? Interesting times. Perofeta, Bergus Furke, and ... ?
Midfield: Barrett, Ioane, ALB, Havili, Ennor ... then Aumua ... then ...
Wings we're OK for.
The question is what we do at fullback, (Jordan) and what depth do we have there? Am fanboi of Sullivan.
In my opinion we have the basis of an extremely good squad, with room. For some exciting noobs.
@booboo we need two locks and a blindside just to make a test team, none of which are apparent.
I think we need a new 7, and I don't know who that is either (I'm not sold on DP)
DMac isn't a failure, but he's fsr from proven, and we don't even know if the new coaches like him
Who plays FB?That's a lot of work.
Not to mention we're lacking quality backups in most areas.
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good? -
@booboo we need two locks and a blindside just to make a test team, none of which are apparent.
I think we need a new 7, and I don't know who that is either (I'm not sold on DP)
DMac isn't a failure, but he's fsr from proven, and we don't even know if the new coaches like him
Who plays FB?That's a lot of work.
Not to mention we're lacking quality backups in most areas.
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
paper depth
Fair in some cases.
But think the front line guys are pretty good. I'm happy with our XV and XXIII. Squaddiea and injury back up, I'll agree, not so much.
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In shock news, Jordan wants a crack at fullback ...
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/will-jordan-expresses-interest-in-positional-switch-for-all-blacks
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@booboo we need two locks and a blindside just to make a test team, none of which are apparent.
I think we need a new 7, and I don't know who that is either (I'm not sold on DP)
DMac isn't a failure, but he's fsr from proven, and we don't even know if the new coaches like him
Who plays FB?That's a lot of work.
Not to mention we're lacking quality backups in most areas.
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?Jason Ryan's going to be selecting the Front Five so I expect there to be continuity unless there's a massive bolter from Super Rugby. Scooter, Vaa'i and Lord will all get game time at Lock.
Razor will be selecting the Back Row players which will be good news for Cullen Grace and Ethan Blackadder. Ardie Savea and Dalton Papalii will be retained from Foster's team.
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In shock news, Jordan wants a crack at fullback ...
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/will-jordan-expresses-interest-in-positional-switch-for-all-blacks
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In shock news, Jordan wants a crack at fullback ...
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/will-jordan-expresses-interest-in-positional-switch-for-all-blacks
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@booboo we need two locks and a blindside just to make a test team, none of which are apparent.
I think we need a new 7, and I don't know who that is either (I'm not sold on DP)
DMac isn't a failure, but he's fsr from proven, and we don't even know if the new coaches like him
Who plays FB?That's a lot of work.
Not to mention we're lacking quality backups in most areas.
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@booboo we need two locks and a blindside just to make a test team, none of which are apparent.
I think we need a new 7, and I don't know who that is either (I'm not sold on DP)
DMac isn't a failure, but he's fsr from proven, and we don't even know if the new coaches like him
Who plays FB?That's a lot of work.
Not to mention we're lacking quality backups in most areas.
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they
actually any good?We have enough flash harry's to rip any defence to shreds, we need a couple of good grinders up front
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@booboo we need two locks and a blindside just to make a test team, none of which are apparent.
I think we need a new 7, and I don't know who that is either (I'm not sold on DP)
DMac isn't a failure, but he's fsr from proven, and we don't even know if the new coaches like him
Who plays FB?That's a lot of work.
Not to mention we're lacking quality backups in most areas.
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Most of your post was paper depth, where yes those guys are names, but are they actually any good?
To me this is actually the exciting part.
I think there's a fair bit of talent that has yet to get a crack at test level.
Guys who have really shone at Super/ABs A/Maori and look poised for that next step
I'm thinking the likes of Ah Kuoi, Proctor, Zarn, Choat, Ruben Love, George Bell etc
That's not to mention there's quite a few players who have had a brief taste of test footy and are poised for much more in this cycle: Narawa, Stevenson, Grace, Mcleod, Finau, Lord etc
Gonna be fascinating to follow
