All Blacks 2024
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Holland and McDonald could equally be an accountancy firm or a maverick late 70s TV detective duo solving crimes off the cuff
Unfortunately the ABs back line attack has neither the pragmatic discipline of expert number crunchers or the ‘how did they do that?’ slight of hand of our unorthodox sleuths
Therein lies the problem
Pick a path
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Looks like I chose the right weekend to skip the game and spend an afternoon drinking Coronas at the beach.
Have the NZ rugby journalists got Razor’s cock out of their mouth long enough to ask what the fuck is going on? It’s time for some serious questions - and hopefully the coaches can respond with a better performance.
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This is mainly forward focused, but you could do the same exercise with the blouses.
How many current AB forwards would make a World XV?
Go a step further, how many would make a 2nd XV? Maybe Lomax? Savea if it's picked by guys who have never played, get their rugby from YouTube, and think it's 2 years ago?Our pack has been outplayed in all 3 serious tests played this year. Ryan can act the smart ass all he wants, but he's clearly not doing his job, or he is and we are deluded about the quality we actually have to offer.
What guys in our pack do you reckon major opposition coaches lose a little bit of sleep over? God I just want one dominant forward who puts the shits up the opposition.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
This is mainly forward focused, but you could do the same exercise with the blouses.
How many current AB forwards would make a World XV?
Go a step further, how many would make a 2nd XV? Maybe Lomax? Savea if it's picked by guys who have never played, get their rugby from YouTube, and think it's 2 years ago?Our pack has been outplayed in all 3 serious tests played this year. Ryan can act the smart ass all he wants, but he's clearly not doing his job, or he is and we are deluded about the quality we actually have to offer.
What guys in our pack do you reckon major opposition coaches lose a little bit of sleep over? God I just want one dominant forward who puts the shits up the opposition.
When not injured, Scott Barrett, perhaps.
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What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes under Holland and McDonald.
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see any positive developments since he left, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes under Holland and McDonald.
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see any positive developments since he left, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
I don't want to like this post. And to add fuel to the fire, when Foster et al had COVID, and Schmidt took over for TWENTY-FOUR hours, the All Blacks played well and looked well-coached.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes under Holland and McDonald.
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see any positive developments since he left, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
I don't want to like this post. And to add fuel to the fire, when Foster et al had COVID, and Schmidt took over for TWENTY-FOUR hours, the All Blacks played well and looked well-coached.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes under Holland and McDonald.
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see any positive developments since he left, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
I don't want to like this post. And to add fuel to the fire, when Foster et al had COVID, and Schmidt took over for TWENTY-FOUR hours, the All Blacks played well and looked well-coached.
There is hope that the solutions won't take long to turn us around. If we can do the right thing for 10 minutes of last night, surely we can work out that we have to play that way for 80 minutes? Don't they have video sessions?
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes under Holland and McDonald.
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see any positive developments since he left, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
I don't want to like this post. And to add fuel to the fire, when Foster et al had COVID, and Schmidt took over for TWENTY-FOUR hours, the All Blacks played well and looked well-coached.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes under Holland and McDonald.
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see any positive developments since he left, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
I don't want to like this post. And to add fuel to the fire, when Foster et al had COVID, and Schmidt took over for TWENTY-FOUR hours, the All Blacks played well and looked well-coached.
So all we need to do is sack Robertson and get Joe Schmidt in and we'd have an Instant 24hr turnaround & problems fixed?
If only it were that simple.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes under Holland and McDonald.
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see any positive developments since he left, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
I don't want to like this post. And to add fuel to the fire, when Foster et al had COVID, and Schmidt took over for TWENTY-FOUR hours, the All Blacks played well and looked well-coached.
So all we need to do is sack Robertson and get Joe Schmidt in and we'd have an Instant 24hr turnaround & problems fixed?
If only it were that simple.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid-2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attacking structures look non-existent.
I don't want to like this post. And to add fuel to the fire, when Foster et al had COVID, and Schmidt took over for TWENTY-FOUR hours, the All Blacks played well and looked well-coached.
So all we need to do is sack Robertson and get Joe Schmidt in and we'd have an Instant 24hr turnaround & problems fixed?
If only it were that simple.
Schmidt is a good coach. Not saying he would have ensured a win against Argentina.
They were consistently good, good enough to win.
What I am saying is once he starts coaching the backline almost invariably looks better organized. Eventually does he over-manage? Possibly. -
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes?
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see anything positive, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid 2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attaching structures look non-existent.
It will be an interesting end of year review if Razor can't turn the ship around. I wonder how much rope he will get before he is pushed to let some of his assistants go? It should be noted that I hope all of this hand wringing ends up being just a speed bump, and that the best is just around the corner.
I don't recall Razor's Saders teams being this lacking in discipline and organisation. My recollection (which could be wrong) was they always seemed to do the basics well, kicked for territory well, and liked to play rugby in the right areas of the field
It seemed the Saders got pinged a lot, and often had players carded. And they were prone to side to side stuff before earning the right. There were some suprising losses but they got forgotten about at the business end of the season.
I know it was a long time ago but Razor tried to be clever against the Lions and ended up losing. From memory he played DH at 12, a position he was inexperienced at.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes?
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see anything positive, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid 2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attaching structures look non-existent.
It will be an interesting end of year review if Razor can't turn the ship around. I wonder how much rope he will get before he is pushed to let some of his assistants go? It should be noted that I hope all of this hand wringing ends up being just a speed bump, and that the best is just around the corner.
I don't recall Razor's Saders teams being this lacking in discipline and organisation. My recollection (which could be wrong) was they always seemed to do the basics well, kicked for territory well, and liked to play rugby in the right areas of the field
It seemed the Saders got pinged a lot, and often had players carded. And they were prone to side to side stuff before earning the right. There were some suprising losses but they got forgotten about at the business end of the season.
I know it was a long time ago but Razor tried to be clever against the Lions and ended up losing. From memory he played DH at 12, a position he was inexperienced at.
That was definitely a feature under Todd but we played more direct under Razor, especially with Fainga'anuku in the lineup.
From my perspective coaching in a season long comp is very different to test rugby. Within a season you can try things and be a bit less risk averse. Test rugby, if approached as ‘must win at all costs’ the margins are smaller and you simply don’t have the luxury of making it up at the end of the season.
Past AB coaches in the last 30-35 years have all tried stuff, experimented with the lineup and tactics. Produced performances that mirrored world class footy and dire rubbish. Even when we felt like we were a better side than the opposition, there were losses and poor output.
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I'd just be happy to not see a winger blindly bat the ball towards our own tryline, or our captain not to do basically the same. With a lead of two points his action put us under pressure at a crucial point in the game.
What should've been us dictating the game in their half had us standing under our own posts shortly afterwards as the Argies took the game. Did a single journalist ask him about it?
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I'd just be happy to not see a winger blindly bat the ball towards our own tryline, or our captain not to do basically the same. With a lead of two points his action put us under pressure at a crucial point in the game.
What should've been us dictating the game in their half had us standing under our own posts shortly afterwards as the Argies took the game. Did a single journalist ask him about it?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
winger blindly bat the ball
I don't know why he didn't try and catch that.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
What is up with the complete lack of deception in the attack shapes?
When Schmidt was coaching our attack we had lots of bodies in motion and players running creative lines, I can't see anything positive, we have regressed massively.
Can't see excuses because when Schmidt took over the attack in mid 2022 it only took two tests for his attacking patterns to come together - we are coming to our 5th test of the year and Holland/McDonald's attaching structures look non-existent.
It will be an interesting end of year review if Razor can't turn the ship around. I wonder how much rope he will get before he is pushed to let some of his assistants go? It should be noted that I hope all of this hand wringing ends up being just a speed bump, and that the best is just around the corner.
I don't recall Razor's Saders teams being this lacking in discipline and organisation. My recollection (which could be wrong) was they always seemed to do the basics well, kicked for territory well, and liked to play rugby in the right areas of the field
It seemed the Saders got pinged a lot, and often had players carded. And they were prone to side to side stuff before earning the right. There were some suprising losses but they got forgotten about at the business end of the season.
I know it was a long time ago but Razor tried to be clever against the Lions and ended up losing. From memory he played DH at 12, a position he was inexperienced at.
That was definitely a feature under Todd but we played more direct under Razor, especially with Fainga'anuku in the lineup.
From my perspective coaching in a season long comp is very different to test rugby. Within a season you can try things and be a bit less risk averse. Test rugby, if approached as ‘must win at all costs’ the margins are smaller and you simply don’t have the luxury of making it up at the end of the season.
Past AB coaches in the last 30-35 years have all tried stuff, experimented with the lineup and tactics. Produced performances that mirrored world class footy and dire rubbish. Even when we felt like we were a better side than the opposition, there were losses and poor output.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
That was definitely a feature under Todd but we played more direct under Razor, especially with Fainga'anuku in the lineup.
A player like Big L would have been useful yesterday. Maybe Clarke is the closest in the backline.
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Seeing a lot of chat about Holland and McDonald in here which is justified. For what it’s worth I’ll add my 2 cents.
I know guys that have played with and under Leon McDonald and there are extremely mixed reviews. Without taking a jab at the guys character and morals, it seems a bit of odd when you’re out for breakfast and you come across one of your squad members who is there with his family, you would stop and introduce yourself and chat wouldn’t you? Apparently not if you’re Leon… you look at them and ignore them like you don’t know them.(Should probably not have said that but meh).
Mixed reviews on the coaching side too but that’s a personal preference I feel so take it with a grain of salt, players don’t always have to like their coaches to get team results.
Personally, I think every single coach has a lot to answer for, from head coach down to ‘line out throwing coach’. I would expect a response next weekend in Auckland in a big way, if not… well then the pitchforks will well and truly be out and rightfully so.
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Seeing a lot of chat about Holland and McDonald in here which is justified. For what it’s worth I’ll add my 2 cents.
I know guys that have played with and under Leon McDonald and there are extremely mixed reviews. Without taking a jab at the guys character and morals, it seems a bit of odd when you’re out for breakfast and you come across one of your squad members who is there with his family, you would stop and introduce yourself and chat wouldn’t you? Apparently not if you’re Leon… you look at them and ignore them like you don’t know them.(Should probably not have said that but meh).
Mixed reviews on the coaching side too but that’s a personal preference I feel so take it with a grain of salt, players don’t always have to like their coaches to get team results.
Personally, I think every single coach has a lot to answer for, from head coach down to ‘line out throwing coach’. I would expect a response next weekend in Auckland in a big way, if not… well then the pitchforks will well and truly be out and rightfully so.
@Landers92 I can completely understand not wanting to go introduce yourself or talk to semi strangers. I'm quite capable of doing my job, but often I just can't be fucked talking to even the closest people to me, especially if I'm not expecting it.
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@Landers92 I can completely understand not wanting to go introduce yourself or talk to semi strangers. I'm quite capable of doing my job, but often I just can't be fucked talking to even the closest people to me, especially if I'm not expecting it.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@Landers92 I can completely understand not wanting to go introduce yourself or talk to semi strangers. I'm quite capable of doing my job, but often I just can't be fucked talking to even the closest people to me, especially if I'm not expecting it.
I can understand you picking it up that way and get exactly what you mean, I was unsure how to word it better. But, the player wasn’t even acknowledged… pretty rough imo but hey, I’m just putting it out there.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
I always thought Ruben Love was going to be the next big thing at 10.
He's always been a fullback more than a 10 but I was hoping he would make the move into first five as I think he's got all the attributes.
Interesting story though, at the beginning of the Canes season this year Laidlaw put two jerseys down on a table in front of Love, one was the 10 jersey, and one was the 15 jersey. He then proceeded to ask Ruben to pick one. I wonder how things would have gone if he picked the 10 jersey.
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Looks like I chose the right weekend to skip the game and spend an afternoon drinking Coronas at the beach.
Have the NZ rugby journalists got Razor’s cock out of their mouth long enough to ask what the fuck is going on? It’s time for some serious questions - and hopefully the coaches can respond with a better performance.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
Looks like I chose the right weekend to skip the game and spend an afternoon drinking Coronas at the beach.
Have the NZ rugby journalists got Razor’s cock out of their mouth long enough to ask what the fuck is going on? It’s time for some serious questions - and hopefully the coaches can respond with a better performance.
We know that won't happen.
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As a fan on the couch I’ve got little idea who can coach and who can’t but all I have is what I see as a result ,
But I do suspect in modern coaching it’s more of a team thing than the one man in charge , we saw the results when fosters assistants were improved, and I see it regularly in afl , a new assistant comes into the mix and quite often brings something completely different to the table.
Out of interest, if Jamie Joseph had got the job , was it public knowledge who his assistants were going to be ?
