Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s
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The main thing this thread shows is that there Dmac, BB and a vast expanse of disagreement filled daylight back to the third choice - who ever that may be.
@Windows97 given only DMac is playing super, it gives at least 4 others a real opportunity to promote themselves.
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@Windows97 given only DMac is playing super, it gives at least 4 others a real opportunity to promote themselves.
@taniwharugby That is true - I just really hope one of them stands up!!
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@Windows97 given only DMac is playing super, it gives at least 4 others a real opportunity to promote themselves.
@taniwharugby said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Windows97 given only DMac is playing super, it gives at least 4 others a real opportunity to promote themselves.
This is why I am not a fan of signings like Rhys Patchell. He might take up one of those spots
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The main thing this thread shows is that there Dmac, BB and a vast expanse of disagreement filled daylight back to the third choice - who ever that may be.
@Windows97 said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
The main thing this thread shows is that there Dmac, BB and a vast expanse of disagreement filled daylight back to the third choice - who ever that may be.
I'm in the DMac followed by daylight category. And given the cat and dog kickers, I think I might not be alone.
This is one of the early hard decisions for Razor -- can he give Beauden the boot? He must know he should, but the howls of outrage will make it difficult.
(Choosing a captain is the other big one.)
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if DH is starting at 12 for the Crusaders then they should not be favourite for the comp
@mariner4life said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
if DH is starting at 12 for the Crusaders then they should not be favourite for the comp
We are never favourites, it’s always the Chiefs and Blues.
“It’s their year”
Havili is fine at 12 at SR level. We used him a little different than what we wanted at test level.
Still prefer him as a fullback.
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@Chris said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble Two young 1st fives due to start (essentially filling in for another young 10). Cru could've selected 3-4 1st fives in their squad and relegated two of those to the training field, but now Kemara and Reihana know they'll get game time. Possibly McCleod & Aumua (not young, but new to cru) in midfield. I'm biased, bc I don't rate Ennor or Havili there. Hotham at 9. This seems to be the season when they hand over the keys.
….so the crusaders ARE ALSO giving young promising guys a run…rather than the inept ones
Yeah, I just meant that the cru are giving opportunities to youngsters in DECISION-MAKING positions (9, 10, 12).
Of course, for every great selection the Crusaders have made over the years, they're also responsible for wacky ideas that were adopted by AB coaches e.g:
Brayden Ennor
Havili at 12
George Bridge as a 1st choice wingerThe Crusaders are not responsible for AB selections that is a stupid statement.
The AB selectors are responsible for wacky ideas as you call it,and there have been plenty of those fuck ups,selections from a lot of teams.Nope, didn't say Crusaders were responsible for AB selections. The cru management decided on those experiments at super level and then for unknown reasons the AB selectors thought that these same ideas would work at test level.
@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
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@mariner4life said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
if DH is starting at 12 for the Crusaders then they should not be favourite for the comp
We are never favourites, it’s always the Chiefs and Blues.
“It’s their year”
Havili is fine at 12 at SR level. We used him a little different than what we wanted at test level.
Still prefer him as a fullback.
@ACT-Crusader The anti-Havili narrative from some here is hilarious. He's been a certain starter at 12 for the Crusaders for years now and he's been really good there at SR level. They've won several titles with him at 12 and he's made a crucial contribution to those titles. He has also had some excellent games at 12 for the ABs (Port Elizabeth win, for example). Jordie is clearly the best 12 we have at test level at the moment, but that doesn't make Havili a bad 12. He's a handy squaddie.
Edited to add that I don't expect him to be in the ABs squad for long, if he makes it at all next year. If only due to his age and the fact that I expect some up-and-comers to overtake him. ALB in the same boat, IMO.
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@Windows97 said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
The main thing this thread shows is that there Dmac, BB and a vast expanse of disagreement filled daylight back to the third choice - who ever that may be.
I'm in the DMac followed by daylight category. And given the cat and dog kickers, I think I might not be alone.
This is one of the early hard decisions for Razor -- can he give Beauden the boot? He must know he should, but the howls of outrage will make it difficult.
(Choosing a captain is the other big one.)
@Chester-Draws said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
but the howls of outrage will make it difficult.
Where will those howls come from? Not here for sure
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Yeah fair enough but the Crusaders do not see it as wacky ideas as it helped win them 7 titles in 7 years.
You pick players in positions that win you titles that is not wacky ideas.
If the AB selectors can not determine who can make it at test level then we have the complete shit show we have had over the last 4 years.
And thankfully that clown show has ended.@Chris I see those three ideas as temporary fixes or experiments that Razor allowed to continue bc the team was still winning.
I 100% agree re that the AB selectors (under Hansen and then Foster) took those ideas without asking themselves if the idea would work in the test environment. For example, Foster should've asked himself "Given the way I want my 12 to play (getting over the gainline) and the fact that at test level most opposition 12s are 107kg+ monsters, is 95kg David Havili the right player for the 12 jersey?"
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@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
If @MiketheSnow's favourite Morgan makes it I'll kick an elephant.
Welsh guy likes player with Welsh name shock!
His parents spelt his first name wrong to be proper Welsh like though.
Probably the easiest time for quite a while to get a crack at the 10 jersey in the ABs. D Mac is effectively the incumbent (depending on where BB fits in) and he's hardly played there.
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@Windows97 said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
The main thing this thread shows is that there Dmac, BB and a vast expanse of disagreement filled daylight back to the third choice - who ever that may be.
I'm in the DMac followed by daylight category. And given the cat and dog kickers, I think I might not be alone.
This is one of the early hard decisions for Razor -- can he give Beauden the boot? He must know he should, but the howls of outrage will make it difficult.
(Choosing a captain is the other big one.)
@Chester-Draws Can he give Beauden the boot? <<< THIS IS THE OTHER BIG QUESTION
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@mariner4life said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
if DH is starting at 12 for the Crusaders then they should not be favourite for the comp
We are never favourites, it’s always the Chiefs and Blues.
“It’s their year”
Havili is fine at 12 at SR level. We used him a little different than what we wanted at test level.
Still prefer him as a fullback.
@ACT-Crusader agree about Havili as 15
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@ACT-Crusader The anti-Havili narrative from some here is hilarious. He's been a certain starter at 12 for the Crusaders for years now and he's been really good there at SR level. They've won several titles with him at 12 and he's made a crucial contribution to those titles. He has also had some excellent games at 12 for the ABs (Port Elizabeth win, for example). Jordie is clearly the best 12 we have at test level at the moment, but that doesn't make Havili a bad 12. He's a handy squaddie.
Edited to add that I don't expect him to be in the ABs squad for long, if he makes it at all next year. If only due to his age and the fact that I expect some up-and-comers to overtake him. ALB in the same boat, IMO.
@Stargazer You make some valid points. For the ABs, I always liked him as outside back cover off the bench.
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@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
@ACT-Crusader Agree to a degree. It's more like AB selectors failed to notice that George Bridge was a temporary "standard-bearer" or "form guy" at the Cru and they rated the Cru management's decision-making in general.
Also, he came along at a time when journos focused on "doing the basics well" and he was the wing doing that... for a short period.
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@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble Two young 1st fives due to start (essentially filling in for another young 10). Cru could've selected 3-4 1st fives in their squad and relegated two of those to the training field, but now Kemara and Reihana know they'll get game time. Possibly McCleod & Aumua (not young, but new to cru) in midfield. I'm biased, bc I don't rate Ennor or Havili there. Hotham at 9. This seems to be the season when they hand over the keys.
….so the crusaders ARE ALSO giving young promising guys a run…rather than the inept ones
Yeah, I just meant that the cru are giving opportunities to youngsters in DECISION-MAKING positions (9, 10, 12).
hastie is a 9, millar a 10 and faleafaga a 10/12......
@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
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@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
@ACT-Crusader said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
I remember bridge on an eoyt game in Japan , (from memory there were 2 squads , he wasn’t part of the main group but he played in this game ) as a team we didn’t play particularly well , but he scored 2 or 3 long range tries and everyone went wow , why isn’t he a regular allblack ? And he was selected the next year .
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@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
People say this kind of thing all the time…how do we know they didn’t?
Players just might not want to come to the smallest of the five hubs and to the teams with one of if not the worst record
You can’t really buy your way to the top with salary caps and shit…and the one time we tried In 2013 we had our worst run in history
