Euro 2024
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Pretty good record. The game they play is pretty dire, but I think that is in the English DNA for a number of sports? Southgate favours toilers and athletes over X factor guys like Maddison (admittedly out of form since injury) and Grealish. I can recall the same mindset applied to Glenn Hoddle back in the day as well
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@mariner4life said in Euro 2024:
The came a headed clearance from taking this supposedly great Spanish team to extra time. I am sure it's frustrating that they keep going deep in tournaments but failing. But as someone who watched way more hyped English teams do much much worse for a couple of decades, they are doing alright.
I think this team actually peaked at the 2022 World Cup, that team looked much better structurally than now, Foden was playing wide left with Shaw supporting and the balance was much better. It was Southgate's worst finish to a major championship because he ran into France in the quarters. In his other quarter-finals it was Sweden, Ukraine, Switzerland.
Not to mention he managed to get England relegated from the Nations League Group A which means they will be playing in Group B outside of the top 16 in Europe.
@mariner4life said in Euro 2024:
The came a headed clearance from taking this supposedly great Spanish team to extra time. I am sure it's frustrating that they keep going deep in tournaments but failing. But as someone who watched way more hyped English teams do much much worse for a couple of decades, they are doing alright.
I think this team actually peaked at the 2022 World Cup, that team looked much better structurally than now, Foden was playing wide left with Shaw supporting and the balance was much better. It was Southgate's worst finish to a major championship because he ran into France in the quarters. In his other quarter-finals it was Sweden, Ukraine, Switzerland.
Not to mention he managed to get England relegated from the Nations League Group A which means they will be playing in Group B outside of the top 16 in Europe.
These are two interesting points. Indeed, the calendar year for 2024 hasn't been a good one for England - I think they have only scored 11 goals in 13 games (or something close to that). Suggests that 2024 was too late for Kane, Walker, Trippier, but too early for Bellingham, Foden, Palmer etc.
I don't like him, but in fairness he was the right man when appointed and he has done a good job of bringing some dignity back to English football. But having done that, the team seems to need someone with more tactical ability to make the most of the available talent and get them a trophy.
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Odds for next England manager
Graham Potter 2/1 (English, ex Brighton and Chelsea)
Eddie Howe 5/1 (English, Newcastle)
Lee Carsley 6/1 (Irish, England Under 21s)
Maurico Pochettino 8/1 (Argentine, ex- Southampton, Spurs, PSG and Chelsea)
Thomas Tuchel 12/1 (German, ex-PSG, Chelsea and Bayern Munich)
Frank Lampard 20-1 (English, ex-Chelsea and Everton)
Jurgen Klopp 20-1 (German, ex-Liverpool)
Pep Guardiola 20-1 (Basque, Man City, ex-Barcelona and Bayern Munich)
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Big problem for the FA. The non-English managers on that list are a lot more qualified than those who are English.
I can't see Pep Guardiola taking the pay cut. I was talking last week to someone who knows Jurgen Klopp and when he said he was taking a year out of the game he meant it.
That leaves Thomas Tuchel as the best candidate if he'd do it.
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A man of integrity
England will miss him more than they know
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A man of integrity
England will miss him more than they know
@MiketheSnow Really hoping it's not Steven Gerrard, utterly dreadful man.
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I think part of the hype is related to the English fans, especially, and media putting the EPL on such a pedestal. This means that the abilities of the English players are often inflated relative to players from other leagues/nationalities. How many would have heard of Fabián Ruiz or Mikel Oyarzabal before the Euros?
@Bovidae This.
The other thing is the foreign influence of managers in the EPL compared to other nations. Playing under guys like Klopp, Pep, Arteta etc guys who get their teams pressing with intent (especially Klopp) and moving the ball quickly, moving into pockets, playing between the lines, playing in different roles with completely different formations, playing from the back where their keepers are expected to play as playmaker too, to then playing almost an Italian style of play under Southgate where defence and closing up the middle of the park is more of a priority. Not quite catenaccio, but not what these players are used to. It's the problem where you have no good English managers. Who's the best English manager? Howe? Followed by someone who's probably the last of a dying breed where he plays stone age League 1 football in the EPL Sean Dyche lol.
The Spanish, Germans etc always play under their own managers, hence the easier transition from club to international level, where the style of play doesn't differ too much to what they are used to.
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I can't see Klopp or Guardiola doing it - Klopp might do Germany but even then not sure he can imbue the Klopp approach with so little time. Pep wouldn't be able to cope without having full control over his players imho.
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@MiketheSnow The one caveat to that is it is much, much easier to qualify for tournaments these days. Euro's was only 4 teams until 1980 and then 8 until 1996. WC was only 16 until 1982.
It's why Italy's repeated failures are so damning.
QF's mean you're a Top 8 Nation. For England that's about right. Southgate has definitely led England through a period where they over-achieved when measured against their historical norm. The great unknown is whether they could/ would have done better under a different Manager, especially when as is now being seen there aren't many alternatives.
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@mariner4life I think this tean has been massively hyped. Certainly pre-tournament, not so much once they started playing.
Not as much as the 'Golden Generation' teams but I've followed England in tournaments since 1980 and this one was definitely favoured by most. Not just the tabloids but almost every media outlet / blog/ pod whatever in England and elsewhere had them one of the top two favourites. Certainly much more so than Spain.
I do think most of the 'big' teams failed to deliver.
Italy were shite but that should have been expected.
Portugal would have almost certainly been better off without Ronaldo.
Germany did better than expected
France were woeful
Netherlands probably over-performed - not much was expected of them pre-tournament
England were a curates egg. They made the final but that was in line with most expectations. Anything less than a semi-final would have been a massive underachievement. The younger players in the main did really well, the more established super stars; not so much. Foden, Bellingham, Rice and especially Kane failed to live up to expectations. They bumbled and stumbled their way to the final, where they were outplayed but still in it with 5 minutes to play.
Spain, Switzerland, Slovakia, Georgia, Austria, Turkey exceeded expectations. Slovakia and Georgia massively so. I didn't anticipate them getting out of their groups although they did do so as 3rd place gettersNot as much as the 'Golden Generation' teams but I've followed England in tournaments since 1980 and this one was definitely favoured by most. Not just the tabloids but almost every media outlet / blog/ pod whatever in England and elsewhere had them one of the top two favourites. Certainly much more so than Spain.
My first England tournament was Mexico 1970 as the World Cup holders. I reckon that puts me right in the sweet spot for the maximum years of hurt possible (54) given that losing that quarter-final to West Germany 3-2 after being 2-0 up was when the hurt started. That 1970 team was probably the best England have had relative to the rest of the world.
These were the NZ TAB odds for the Euros just before it started
England 4.33
France 4.50
Germany 5.50
Portugal 8.00
Spain 8.00
Italy 16.00
Belgium 17.00
Netherlands 17.00
Croatia 34.00
Denmark 41.00
Austria 51.00
Serbia 67.00
Switzerland 67.00
Turkey 67.00
Ukraine 67.00
Hungary 81.00
Czech Republic 101
Scotland 101
Poland 151
Romania 151
Slovenia 201
Albania 251
Slovakia 251
Georgia 501 -
Not as much as the 'Golden Generation' teams but I've followed England in tournaments since 1980 and this one was definitely favoured by most. Not just the tabloids but almost every media outlet / blog/ pod whatever in England and elsewhere had them one of the top two favourites. Certainly much more so than Spain.
My first England tournament was Mexico 1970 as the World Cup holders. I reckon that puts me right in the sweet spot for the maximum years of hurt possible (54) given that losing that quarter-final to West Germany 3-2 after being 2-0 up was when the hurt started. That 1970 team was probably the best England have had relative to the rest of the world.
These were the NZ TAB odds for the Euros just before it started
England 4.33
France 4.50
Germany 5.50
Portugal 8.00
Spain 8.00
Italy 16.00
Belgium 17.00
Netherlands 17.00
Croatia 34.00
Denmark 41.00
Austria 51.00
Serbia 67.00
Switzerland 67.00
Turkey 67.00
Ukraine 67.00
Hungary 81.00
Czech Republic 101
Scotland 101
Poland 151
Romania 151
Slovenia 201
Albania 251
Slovakia 251
Georgia 501
