All Blacks v Argentina II
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
It's the double edged sword that is the aura
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
To be fair, Rugby Jesus getting off was down to the TMO due to the "sudden change of height" ...
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@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What happened to the Argie linespeed and aggressive defensive line?
Chip kicks in behind early didn't hurt
Chip kicks did come off but margins are small, might need to try something different against the Bok
Boks leave a lot of space out wide. Just need a winger that can jumped higher than Kolbe...
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What happened to the Argie linespeed and aggressive defensive line?
Chip kicks in behind early didn't hurt
Chip kicks did come off but margins are small, might need to try something different against the Bok
Boks leave a lot of space out wide. Just need a winger that can jumped higher than Kolbe...
Clarke and Jordan will be a handful. If we can win or at least par the collision area/breakdown
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What happened to the Argie linespeed and aggressive defensive line?
Chip kicks in behind early didn't hurt
Chip kicks did come off but margins are small, might need to try something different against the Bok
Boks leave a lot of space out wide. Just need a winger that can jumped higher than Kolbe...
Clarke and Jordan will be a handful. If we can win or at least par the collision area/breakdown
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What happened to the Argie linespeed and aggressive defensive line?
Chip kicks in behind early didn't hurt
Chip kicks did come off but margins are small, might need to try something different against the Bok
Boks leave a lot of space out wide. Just need a winger that can jumped higher than Kolbe...
Clarke and Jordan will be a handful. If we can win or at least par the collision area/breakdown
Unpossible. The
bomb squad 
... -
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
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Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs.
Really?
Felt the deep crossfield kicking aiming at the 50-22s pinned them back and worked really well.
Much happier with those than the middle distance kicking last year's team employed.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs.
Really?
Felt the deep crossfield kicking aiming at the 50-22s pinned them back and worked really well.
Much happier with those than the middle distance kicking last year's team employed.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs.
Really?
Felt the deep crossfield kicking aiming at the 50-22s pinned them back and worked really well.
Much happier with those than the middle distance kicking last year's team employed.
IMHO we need to work on our accuracy (DMac overcooked a couple for example), but the intent was good. Not a box kick in sight for much of the game. And good riddance
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Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
@Darth-Sader
Against SA to have any chance we must mix the attack up a bit otherwise we have no chance.
Great to see long exits and not mucking around in own half. -
Been flamed on here before stating Grant Fox wipers never go out of fashion. 50:22 is an added bonus.
DMac is trying this. -
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
Possibly a harsh assessment, but there were definitely times where we put ourselves under pressure or lost opportunities with inaccurate kicking. Against a stronger side eg SA they will punish us. The Argues handling (in very poor conditions) let us off the hook a few times.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
Possibly a harsh assessment, but there were definitely times where we put ourselves under pressure or lost opportunities with inaccurate kicking. Against a stronger side eg SA they will punish us. The Argues handling (in very poor conditions) let us off the hook a few times.
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Was at the game last night. Couple of observations:
- Va’ai and Ardie were very good
- Jordan is a weapon obviously, but prone to making bad calls from fullback
- Chips were useful on a heavy ground to turn the defense around initially, variation seems to be the key to upsetting rush defence
- Scrum a big part of ABs gaining upper hand
- kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs. Aimless field kicking (including box kicks) put us under pressure a few times, touch-finding never has any range. DMac and Beaudy are both wanting in those areas. Jordie with a howler near the end.
- Argies didn’t turn up and seemed pretty gutted at the end
- Disappointing how ABs lost shape after such a great start, but forgivable
At the ground didn't the kicking seem reasonable in the conditions? On tv the ground etc looked pretty greasy
Possibly a harsh assessment, but there were definitely times where we put ourselves under pressure or lost opportunities with inaccurate kicking. Against a stronger side eg SA they will punish us. The Argues handling (in very poor conditions) let us off the hook a few times.
I wrote it earlier in the thread, but I seem to recall it was at least 20+ minutes before our first box kick/kick from TJP, and that was more of a pop kick over the line as they were off balance, and we had a strong chance to contest. Overall I barely remember more than one or two. The long kicks weren't always completely accurate (not by much), but they can work on that
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
You claimed he was a defensive powerhouse..
I swear reading comprehension isn't taught in schools anymore.
You brought up how there were no linebreaks/turnovers insinuating this was Riekos doing.
So you agree he was ineffectual in attack, conceded the most turnovers and was a spectator in defense with a grand total of 2 tackles all game.
I swear reading comprehension isn't taught in schools anymore.
You know you could clarify what you meant instead of pivoting to insults.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
You claimed he was a defensive powerhouse..
I swear reading comprehension isn't taught in schools anymore.
You brought up how there were no linebreaks/turnovers insinuating this was Riekos doing.
So you agree he was ineffectual in attack, conceded the most turnovers and was a spectator in defense with a grand total of 2 tackles all game.
I swear reading comprehension isn't taught in schools anymore.
You know you could clarify what you meant instead of pivoting to insults.
I said what I meant, not the various different words you tried to pretend I said. I don't think it's worth conversing about Rieko with you, you've clearly made up your mind he provides no value and look at all the stats and stats only to prove it!
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
This isn't a dig at Rieko's game last night because I thought he did ok, but a couple of matches ago the comms mentioned he hasn't scored a try this year. Is that right?
I'm interested to see him getting slated here. For most of the game he wasn't given the ball anywhere he could do anything with it. The coaching appears to have both midfielders playing close and straight to open the field for the looping player (see Jordan's try last night)
Other time Jordie just shuffles him the ball right at the line.If we are going to play like that it's a complete waste of his talents.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
This isn't a dig at Rieko's game last night because I thought he did ok, but a couple of matches ago the comms mentioned he hasn't scored a try this year. Is that right?
I'm interested to see him getting slated here. For most of the game he wasn't given the ball anywhere he could do anything with it. The coaching appears to have both midfielders playing close and straight to open the field for the looping player (see Jordan's try last night)
Other time Jordie just shuffles him the ball right at the line.If we are going to play like that it's a complete waste of his talents.
Agreed - in that scenario you describe, he should be the looping player so that he space in which to use his pace.
He's too good not to have in the starting XV. The problem is our attack is to structured in a way to use (at all) his biggest strength, which is his pace. He is not big enough to get the ball so close to the defensive line and still make meters, nor is he a good enough stepper (he is more of a server, which needs a little bit more space and to be at full pace).
I think re-structuring our backline attack with a bit more depth to give everyone a bit more space is what is needed to get the most out of Reiko, as well as the other outside backs. I do not see Reiko moving back to the wing because I just don't think he is good enough under the high ball for a modern winger.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
90% vs 64% for him
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I think Razor made the changes just to give players minutes.
He said he wanted to give some players time in other positions (i.e., the versatility he bangs on about). Specifically, BB, Jordan and Ioane.
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@Snowy said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
44 Test tries now for Beauden Barrett. It's some career he's having.
He should have broke Howlett's record ages ago.
He had scored 36 tries from 2013-2019. An average of 5+ a year.
He has only scored 8 in the 5 seasons since the 2019 RWC despite being undroppable.
How much of that time did he spend playing at 10?
Played 10 2016/2017/2018.
2019 was dual pivot rubbish with Mo'unga.
And he has basically been a fullback ever since.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Snowy said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
44 Test tries now for Beauden Barrett. It's some career he's having.
He should have broke Howlett's record ages ago.
He had scored 36 tries from 2013-2019. An average of 5+ a year.
He has only scored 8 in the 5 seasons since the 2019 RWC despite being undroppable.
How much of that time did he spend playing at 10?
Played 10 2016/2017/2018.
2019 was dual pivot rubbish with Mo'unga.
And he has basically been a fullback ever since.
Beaudie has started 30 tests at fullback for 8 tries:
- 3 in 2024 (1 try)
- 10 in 2023 (2 tries)
- 3 in 2022 (0)
- 4 in 2020 (0)
- 8 in 2019 (4 tries)
- 1 in 2013 (1 try)
- 1 in 2012 (0)
He has started 56 tests and 1 non-test at 1st 5 for 28 tries:
- 5 in 2022 (1 try)
- 7 in 2021 (2 tries)
- 1 in 2020 (0)
- 2 in 2019 (0)
- 11 in 2018 (8 tries)
- 14 in 2017 (6 tries)
- 11 in 2016 (8 tries)
- 1 in 2015 (1 try)
- 5 in 2014 (2 tries)
He has come off the bench in 42 tests for 8 tries:
- 2 in 2024 (0)
- 1 in 2023 (0)
- 3 in 2022 (1 try)
- 6 in 2021 (1 try)
- 2 in 2016 (1 try)
- 7 in 2015 (2 tries)
- 7 in 2014 (0)
- 10 in 2013 (3 tries)
- 4 in 2012 (0)
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
To be fair, Rugby Jesus getting off was down to the TMO due to the "sudden change of height" ...
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
I don't understand why either but I have a suspicion that a different standard was applied to All Blacks on the receiving end. The motive can only be explained by the referee who stands out as a statistical anomaly.
To be fair, Rugby Jesus getting off was down to the TMO due to the "sudden change of height" ...
And obviously very hard for "Madiba" Kolisi to adjust his height accordingly given that he only had 20m to lineup Ardie before giving him a flying headbutt...
