All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
That's deceiving though. What phase was he taking the ball up is my first question? Do we really expect people to be simply walking through a modern Test defence when IMO it's three different things:
- Good cleans and quick ball which overwhelms the ability of the defence to restructure.
- Shaping so the defence overcompensates and leaves opportunities elsewhere to be exploited.
- Different lines and options so the defence is overwhelmed by decisions it has to make.
I didn't see a lot of that last weekend. What I did see was some aimless high kicking with ineffective chases. When we did do #1 we ended up making ground and scored.
My biggest headscratcher is seeing forwards go away from what's clearly working.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
That's deceiving though. What phase was he taking the ball up is my first question? Do we really expect people to be simply walking through a modern Test defence when IMO it's three different things:
- Good cleans and quick ball which overwhelms the ability of the defence to restructure.
- Shaping so the defence overcompensates and leaves opportunities elsewhere to be exploited.
- Different lines and options so the defence is overwhelmed by decisions it has to make.
I didn't see a lot of that last weekend. What I did see was some aimless high kicking with ineffective chases. When we did do #1 we ended up making ground and scored.
My biggest headscratcher is seeing forwards go away from what's clearly working.
Pretty much sums it up for me. Play winning rugby for 10 minutes then disjointed helter skelter high risk rugby for 70. We are just playing Stoopid right now.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet that post may have been, and that's fine - but plenty aren't.
by me or by others?
haven't paid all that much attention to who is doing it to be honest mate, but you've made a couple and there have been a heap of posts about robertson, savea etc.
i'm all for going over player performance and tactics etc, just don't see the need for people to have a go at their character - or any validity in their assessments. There could only be validity if people know them personally, and if that were the case then it would be a fluffybunny of a thing to do.I think you are jumping in front of snow balls im not throwing.
"big dick energy" was playful slang on how assertive Rassie and Andy Farrell are in the media. Strolling in and laying down the law. That post was the most upvoted on the website since the match by the way.
I used the word beta in a post about Robertson and Savea's sheepish post match presser and prefaced the word beta with the words "for want of a better adjective". They looked shy, embarrassed and avoidant.
In the "wokism" post you quoted I used a crying laughing emoji after the sentence which included the word wokism. To indicate it's a joke, or funny, or humorous.
To hyperbolically imply that political correctness had even ruined the worlds greatest Rugby team.You need to stop reading posts through such a sensitively jaundiced lens.
You know what makes all this go away?
Winning.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I used the word beta in a post about Robertson and Savea's sheepish post match presser and prefaced the word beta with the words "for want of a better adjective". They looked shy, embarrassed and avoidant.
You could hardly have expected them to be bullish after a loss.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I used the word beta in a post about Robertson and Savea's sheepish post match presser and prefaced the word beta with the words "for want of a better adjective". They looked shy, embarrassed and avoidant.
You could hardly have expected them to be bullish after a loss.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I used the word beta in a post about Robertson and Savea's sheepish post match presser and prefaced the word beta with the words "for want of a better adjective". They looked shy, embarrassed and avoidant.
You could hardly have expected them to be bullish after a loss.
I'd have more confidence if at the same time they blamed the players for not doing what they'd trained, they said that they things we did well were the things they trained.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
that opening made your day, didn't it!
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@Jet Oh I'm all for winning - the rugby that is, don't really care too much who wins the toughest press conference competition. As I said it's a volume of posts from multiple people all playing amateur psychologist, rather than a single one.
The 'big dick' post was a good one, and i agreed with a fair bit of it: it analysed some rugby, lack of specialists, lack of balance caused by locked-in selections etc. Although bemoaning not enough tough guys then advocating for hotham, jordan, love did make me chuckle (they're only backs I know).@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet Oh I'm all for winning - the rugby that is, don't really care too much who wins the toughest press conference competition. As I said it's a volume of posts from multiple people all playing amateur psychologist, rather than a single one.
The 'big dick' post was a good one, and i agreed with a fair bit of it: it analysed some rugby, lack of specialists, lack of balance caused by locked-in selections etc. Although bemoaning not enough tough guys then advocating for hotham, jordan, love did make me chuckle (they're only backs I know).You do realise they are the toughest guys out on the pitch. Well that’s what my coach told me when I was firing loopy harbour bridge passes from the base of a ruck or running the cutter in the mud with loosies charging at me.
The petticoats can have their little group play in the sand together they call scrums, and their cute line up in a straight line like school kids waiting for their teacher to tell them they can go outside and play. Meanwhile the real rugby gets played after they’ve had their little fun.
But enough of the psycho synopsis.
Hearing a little noise about 3 key changes to the starting lineup this week.
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Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
….and give the 6 and 8 jerseys to Ioane and Sotutu of course
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
that opening made your day, didn't it!
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
that opening made your day, didn't it!
Could have driven a truck through it
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
….and give the 6 and 8 jerseys to Ioane and Sotutu of course
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
….and give the 6 and 8 jerseys to Ioane and Sotutu of course
attacking players who are useful in the lineout but not Crusaders? Wash your mouth out!
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
that opening made your day, didn't it!
Could have driven a truck through it
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
that opening made your day, didn't it!
Could have driven a truck through it
I'm here for you @NTA
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
that opening made your day, didn't it!
Could have driven a truck through it
I'm here for you @NTA
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Well I think the first step is to give the defensive coach a jolly good talking to - does anyone know who is he in our myriad of support staff? Or like the selections are there defensive coachs for the tight 5, loosies, inside backs etc...
@Windows97 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think the first step is to give the defensive coach a jolly good talking to - does anyone know who is he in our myriad of support staff? Or like the selections are there defensive coachs for the tight 5, loosies, inside backs etc...
I think its Scott. But to be brought up to speed by Tamati
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
….and give the 6 and 8 jerseys to Ioane and Sotutu of course
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
….and give the 6 and 8 jerseys to Ioane and Sotutu of course
Meh, one way players
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What is fascinating is being able to see how Razor reacts to being under pressure
With his enormous success at the Crusaders he is in a unique position of not having been under the sort of pressure that the ABs are under right now/will be with 2 Bok games in South Africa.
How will he handle it.
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What is fascinating is being able to see how Razor reacts to being under pressure
With his enormous success at the Crusaders he is in a unique position of not having been under the sort of pressure that the ABs are under right now/will be with 2 Bok games in South Africa.
How will he handle it.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What is fascinating is being able to see how Razor reacts to being under pressure
With his enormous success at the Crusaders he is in a unique position of not having been under the sort of pressure that the ABs are under right now/will be with 2 Bok games in South Africa.
How will he handle it.
Blame the players?
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You can apply the fuck around and find out matrix to Razor right now (to a certain extent). At Super level you have far more room to fuck around without really finding out. The Crusaders have some shocking losses sprinkled through Razor's reign, but they were all forgotten as his teams had a very good habit of winning all of their finals, so he never really found out. At AB level, you fuck around with even one easy game, then the public will make sure you find out immediately. Fuck around with two easy games? The calls for your head become deafening, as the bloke before Razor found out.
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Do kiwis still really care to that extent about losses? I’m outside the country but I was a bit meh whatever. Lots of other countries have caught up and very, if any, players are the worlds best in their position. First year in charge I hardly expected Roberson to go undefeated. Argentina played pretty well but they still needed nz to gift them 2 tries of which the 2nd in particular was a minties moment kind of errors. In modern rugby the solution is not the “we need to be more hard” kind of fixes. All the best teams are up there in terms of physicality etc - simply being more hard rarely changes anything. This weeks test is much more interesting as we see how SR responds to a loss.
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What is fascinating is being able to see how Razor reacts to being under pressure
With his enormous success at the Crusaders he is in a unique position of not having been under the sort of pressure that the ABs are under right now/will be with 2 Bok games in South Africa.
How will he handle it.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What is fascinating is being able to see how Razor reacts to being under pressure
With his enormous success at the Crusaders he is in a unique position of not having been under the sort of pressure that the ABs are under right now/will be with 2 Bok games in South Africa.
How will he handle it.
yeah, thats the real test, if it is the players that arent doing what they have been training to do then we HAVE to see some of them on the block...if they keep failing but he doesnt cut anyone then we can assume it was actually his game plan of coaching that has failed
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Do kiwis still really care to that extent about losses? I’m outside the country but I was a bit meh whatever. Lots of other countries have caught up and very, if any, players are the worlds best in their position. First year in charge I hardly expected Roberson to go undefeated. Argentina played pretty well but they still needed nz to gift them 2 tries of which the 2nd in particular was a minties moment kind of errors. In modern rugby the solution is not the “we need to be more hard” kind of fixes. All the best teams are up there in terms of physicality etc - simply being more hard rarely changes anything. This weeks test is much more interesting as we see how SR responds to a loss.
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Do kiwis still really care to that extent about losses? I’m outside the country but I was a bit meh whatever. Lots of other countries have caught up and very, if any, players are the worlds best in their position. First year in charge I hardly expected Roberson to go undefeated. Argentina played pretty well but they still needed nz to gift them 2 tries of which the 2nd in particular was a minties moment kind of errors. In modern rugby the solution is not the “we need to be more hard” kind of fixes. All the best teams are up there in terms of physicality etc - simply being more hard rarely changes anything. This weeks test is much more interesting as we see how SR responds to a loss.
Foster lowered our expectations. The loss was disappointing, but it's not like anyone's spitting on Razor's horse. He should send Foster a gift basket for that
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Do kiwis still really care to that extent about losses? I’m outside the country but I was a bit meh whatever. Lots of other countries have caught up and very, if any, players are the worlds best in their position. First year in charge I hardly expected Roberson to go undefeated. Argentina played pretty well but they still needed nz to gift them 2 tries of which the 2nd in particular was a minties moment kind of errors. In modern rugby the solution is not the “we need to be more hard” kind of fixes. All the best teams are up there in terms of physicality etc - simply being more hard rarely changes anything. This weeks test is much more interesting as we see how SR responds to a loss.
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Do kiwis still really care to that extent about losses? I’m outside the country but I was a bit meh whatever. Lots of other countries have caught up and very, if any, players are the worlds best in their position. First year in charge I hardly expected Roberson to go undefeated. Argentina played pretty well but they still needed nz to gift them 2 tries of which the 2nd in particular was a minties moment kind of errors. In modern rugby the solution is not the “we need to be more hard” kind of fixes. All the best teams are up there in terms of physicality etc - simply being more hard rarely changes anything. This weeks test is much more interesting as we see how SR responds to a loss.
Not even former World player of the year Ardie Savea ?
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What is fascinating is being able to see how Razor reacts to being under pressure
With his enormous success at the Crusaders he is in a unique position of not having been under the sort of pressure that the ABs are under right now/will be with 2 Bok games in South Africa.
How will he handle it.
yeah, thats the real test, if it is the players that arent doing what they have been training to do then we HAVE to see some of them on the block...if they keep failing but he doesnt cut anyone then we can assume it was actually his game plan of coaching that has failed
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
What is fascinating is being able to see how Razor reacts to being under pressure
With his enormous success at the Crusaders he is in a unique position of not having been under the sort of pressure that the ABs are under right now/will be with 2 Bok games in South Africa.
How will he handle it.
yeah, thats the real test, if it is the players that arent doing what they have been training to do then we HAVE to see some of them on the block...if they keep failing but he doesnt cut anyone then we can assume it was actually his game plan of coaching that has failed
I'm more worried that due to the loss he resists making the changes he was likely going to. We'll see if he's as stubborn as Foster in a couple of days.
