All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game. Savea was fine but as captain its hard with such a poorly selected and poorly coached side. As was TJ. But people ahve made there mind up with TJ before the game starts (having posted this I would have started Ratima).
Regarding players. Look at your Crusader players and coaches to see where the blame lies
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua. He threw well this game (as did Aumua in his one start) but not all. But he does nothing much else now. I would prefer both RR and Aumua. But hes a vice captian now. This is becoming an issue with Robertson. Hes like another Deans or Wylie (or Hart). Not a Wayne Smith. Or Henry.Newell is hopeless apart from scummaging but even here in this game he was poor.
Reece is too slow and small for test rugby.
In my view Blackadder is not the answer at 6There were other poor selection but the above is a start
The Argies weren’t taking the hit at scrum time and Gardner was deep in their pockets at that point. One of the big problems was our captain let the Argies run riot with stoppages and fake injuries and needed to rark up Gardner to their BS.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Winger said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game
The Argies weren’t taking the hit at scrum time and Gardner was deep in their pockets at that point. One of the big problems was our captain let the Argies run riot with stoppages and fake injuries and needed to rark up Gardner to their BS.And that's my biggest probelm with Savea's captaincy, he's simply far too passive and accepts everything the ref says without challenging them, pushing back or getting in their ear.
In the RWC final for example when they were reviewing the disallowed try an astute captain would have known that they can't go back more than 2 phases and challenged them on it.
He's a warrior with a great heart, but a completly empty jersey as a captain.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks :face_with_tears_of_joy:
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Would like to know the context of those runs.
You're absolutely spot on.
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
Wayne Smith used to only look at dominant tackles as a stat he cared about. There were 25 in the test. 15 were by Argentina. That's a stat we need to dominate (haha) if we don't want to ship 38 points again in a test match. Remember: a record number of points shipped at home. And we didn't even have a card to point to. We got smoked defensively.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Stats by themselves are largely meaningless. But we're at the point where our squad is pretty average, and so we're spruiking individuals, supporting our 'truth' with stats and picking teams that 'would be better'. Put bluntly, we're the new GAGR/Australian fan (sorry @NTA). Coupled with shitty provincial bias (arguably being led by our coach).
No need to apologise.
As you say, you've basically been Queenslanders for ages, with a better team.
:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
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It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.
He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.
He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.
This is the major problem with our tight 5 - we either have technically proficent set piece players that are hopeless at carrying the ball, or good ball carrying players that are technically deficient in the set piece.
In our tight 5 on Saturday all good set piece players, useless at carrying the ball.
We then bring on our "impact bench" of guys who can carry the ball (excluding Newell who just does like for like) and our set piece goes to kak.
We seem to be stuck with a lot of one dimensional forwards atm.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks :face_with_tears_of_joy:
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks :face_with_tears_of_joy:
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
Can we please fuck the political agenda crap off to the politics threads? 'Wokism', 'big dick energy', 'beta'... All you're contributing with that is telling the world that you like shit podcasts.
Same goes for all the pop psychology bullshit doing the rounds. It's a game of fucking rugby, and this is a rugby forum: how about analyse the rugby which you can see and make valid comments on, rather than making shit up about peoples' character. -
@Jet we have a girlfriend beater on the wing…. I’d hardly described the class of 2011-2015 as that
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@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks :face_with_tears_of_joy:
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
Can we please fuck the political agenda crap off to the politics threads? 'Wokism', 'big dick energy', 'beta'... All you're contributing with that is telling the world that you like shit podcasts.
Same goes for all the pop psychology bullshit doing the rounds. It's a game of fucking rugby, and this is a rugby forum: how about analyse the rugby which you can see and make valid comments on, rather than making shit up about peoples' character.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks :face_with_tears_of_joy:
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
Can we please fuck the political agenda crap off to the politics threads? 'Wokism', 'big dick energy', 'beta'... All you're contributing with that is telling the world that you like shit podcasts.
Same goes for all the pop psychology bullshit doing the rounds. It's a game of fucking rugby, and this is a rugby forum: how about analyse the rugby which you can see and make valid comments on, rather than making shit up about peoples' character.It was tongue in cheek mate. Take it easy.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
One more issue, aside from everything discussed, is that most of the ABs, when it comes to rugby smarts and game management, are thick as pig shit. McKenzie, Savea, the two Barretts, Taylor, TJP… all our old heads are dumb, hot headed morons. I yearn for some level headed, smart, understate players who just know how to get the job done. They all need a bollocking. I mean our stand in captain crying on Instagram? Are we fkn joking
Wokism finally nobbled the Allblacks :face_with_tears_of_joy:
We were much better when we had seal clubbers, wife beaters and lads who love the grog in the team.
Can we please fuck the political agenda crap off to the politics threads? 'Wokism', 'big dick energy', 'beta'... All you're contributing with that is telling the world that you like shit podcasts.
Same goes for all the pop psychology bullshit doing the rounds. It's a game of fucking rugby, and this is a rugby forum: how about analyse the rugby which you can see and make valid comments on, rather than making shit up about peoples' character.It was tongue in cheek mate. Take it easy.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet that post may have been, and that's fine - but plenty aren't.
by me or by others?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet that post may have been, and that's fine - but plenty aren't.
by me or by others?
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet that post may have been, and that's fine - but plenty aren't.
by me or by others?
haven't paid all that much attention to who is doing it to be honest mate, but you've made a couple and there have been a heap of posts about robertson, savea etc.
i'm all for going over player performance and tactics etc, just don't see the need for people to have a go at their character - or any validity in their assessments. There could only be validity if people know them personally, and if that were the case then it would be a fluffybunny of a thing to do. -
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet that post may have been, and that's fine - but plenty aren't.
by me or by others?
haven't paid all that much attention to who is doing it to be honest mate, but you've made a couple and there have been a heap of posts about robertson, savea etc.
i'm all for going over player performance and tactics etc, just don't see the need for people to have a go at their character - or any validity in their assessments. There could only be validity if people know them personally, and if that were the case then it would be a fluffybunny of a thing to do.@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet that post may have been, and that's fine - but plenty aren't.
by me or by others?
haven't paid all that much attention to who is doing it to be honest mate, but you've made a couple and there have been a heap of posts about robertson, savea etc.
i'm all for going over player performance and tactics etc, just don't see the need for people to have a go at their character - or any validity in their assessments. There could only be validity if people know them personally, and if that were the case then it would be a fluffybunny of a thing to do.I think you are jumping in front of snow balls im not throwing.
"big dick energy" was playful slang on how assertive Rassie and Andy Farrell are in the media. Strolling in and laying down the law. That post was the most upvoted on the website since the match by the way.
I used the word beta in a post about Robertson and Savea's sheepish post match presser and prefaced the word beta with the words "for want of a better adjective". They looked shy, embarrassed and avoidant.
In the "wokism" post you quoted I used a crying laughing emoji after the sentence which included the word wokism. To indicate it's a joke, or funny, or humorous.
To hyperbolically imply that political correctness had even ruined the worlds greatest Rugby team.You need to stop reading posts through such a sensitively jaundiced lens.
You know what makes all this go away?
Winning.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
Bit early to judge him at test level.
But the big argument for picking Robertson et al was a need for fresh start and Test experience didn't matter - with Foster's Test record being held up as proof experience counted for nothing.
Now when Coach Jesus turns out (unsurprisingly) to have feet of clay, suddenly it's "too early to judge him".
He knows Ryan. He's the AB coach. He sorts it out pronto.
He has won 3 lost 1 too early to judge fuck all yet, some people may be left looking stupid if they judge the wrong way now.
I reserve my judgement until I see more I did afford Foster that as well.I think it’s fair to say wait until end of the year ,
This is a tough year though , my big concern is we have just dropped one of the most winnable games when you look at what’s coming .
But we are a fickle bunch , win this week , beat the Aussies and win one away against South Africa all will be right with the world again .
But I can see things getting very ugly if we get to the end of the year around the 50-50 mark .
The bok games and the nh games are looking very tough right now , we may go into those as underdogs .
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
Bit early to judge him at test level.
But the big argument for picking Robertson et al was a need for fresh start and Test experience didn't matter - with Foster's Test record being held up as proof experience counted for nothing.
Now when Coach Jesus turns out (unsurprisingly) to have feet of clay, suddenly it's "too early to judge him".
He knows Ryan. He's the AB coach. He sorts it out pronto.
He has won 3 lost 1 too early to judge fuck all yet, some people may be left looking stupid if they judge the wrong way now.
I reserve my judgement until I see more I did afford Foster that as well.I think it’s fair to say wait until end of the year ,
This is a tough year though , my big concern is we have just dropped one of the most winnable games when you look at what’s coming .
But we are a fickle bunch , win this week , beat the Aussies and win one away against South Africa all will be right with the world again .
But I can see things getting very ugly if we get to the end of the year around the 50-50 mark .
The bok games and the nh games are looking very tough right now , we may go into those as underdogs .
Very tough first year and you are right a lose to the Argies this early does not look good for what is to come.
Hopefully they can turn it around and quickly. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet that post may have been, and that's fine - but plenty aren't.
by me or by others?
haven't paid all that much attention to who is doing it to be honest mate, but you've made a couple and there have been a heap of posts about robertson, savea etc.
i'm all for going over player performance and tactics etc, just don't see the need for people to have a go at their character - or any validity in their assessments. There could only be validity if people know them personally, and if that were the case then it would be a fluffybunny of a thing to do.I think you are jumping in front of snow balls im not throwing.
"big dick energy" was playful slang on how assertive Rassie and Andy Farrell are in the media. Strolling in and laying down the law. That post was the most upvoted on the website since the match by the way.
I used the word beta in a post about Robertson and Savea's sheepish post match presser and prefaced the word beta with the words "for want of a better adjective". They looked shy, embarrassed and avoidant.
In the "wokism" post you quoted I used a crying laughing emoji after the sentence which included the word wokism. To indicate it's a joke, or funny, or humorous.
To hyperbolically imply that political correctness had even ruined the worlds greatest Rugby team.You need to stop reading posts through such a sensitively jaundiced lens.
You know what makes all this go away?
Winning.
@Jet Oh I'm all for winning - the rugby that is, don't really care too much who wins the toughest press conference competition. As I said it's a volume of posts from multiple people all playing amateur psychologist, rather than a single one.
The 'big dick' post was a good one, and i agreed with a fair bit of it: it analysed some rugby, lack of specialists, lack of balance caused by locked-in selections etc. Although bemoaning not enough tough guys then advocating for hotham, jordan, love did make me chuckle (they're only backs I know). -
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
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Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
Wow, we have sunk so low
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
Wow, we have sunk so low
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Well I think clearly the first step is to lynch the coach and deport half the players. Then bring back Foster.
Wow, we have sunk so low
Just feeling the vibe from the match thread!
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Well I think the first step is to give the defensive coach a jolly good talking to - does anyone know who is he in our myriad of support staff? Or like the selections are there defensive coachs for the tight 5, loosies, inside backs etc...
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@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So densively went well, ball in hand not so great.
5 times for 1 metre? Newell would klll for those stats, forward that is.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So densively went well, ball in hand not so great.
5 times for 1 metre? Newell would klll for those stats, forward that is.
3 runs for 0 gain
So I guess so lol
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Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
That's deceiving though. What phase was he taking the ball up is my first question? Do we really expect people to be simply walking through a modern Test defence when IMO it's three different things:
- Good cleans and quick ball which overwhelms the ability of the defence to restructure.
- Shaping so the defence overcompensates and leaves opportunities elsewhere to be exploited.
- Different lines and options so the defence is overwhelmed by decisions it has to make.
I didn't see a lot of that last weekend. What I did see was some aimless high kicking with ineffective chases. When we did do #1 we ended up making ground and scored.
My biggest headscratcher is seeing forwards go away from what's clearly working.
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@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
That's deceiving though. What phase was he taking the ball up is my first question? Do we really expect people to be simply walking through a modern Test defence when IMO it's three different things:
- Good cleans and quick ball which overwhelms the ability of the defence to restructure.
- Shaping so the defence overcompensates and leaves opportunities elsewhere to be exploited.
- Different lines and options so the defence is overwhelmed by decisions it has to make.
I didn't see a lot of that last weekend. What I did see was some aimless high kicking with ineffective chases. When we did do #1 we ended up making ground and scored.
My biggest headscratcher is seeing forwards go away from what's clearly working.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darren said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Couple stats for De Groot
Ran 5 times for 1 meter total
Made 10 tackles, missed 0So defensively went well, ball in hand not so great.
That's deceiving though. What phase was he taking the ball up is my first question? Do we really expect people to be simply walking through a modern Test defence when IMO it's three different things:
- Good cleans and quick ball which overwhelms the ability of the defence to restructure.
- Shaping so the defence overcompensates and leaves opportunities elsewhere to be exploited.
- Different lines and options so the defence is overwhelmed by decisions it has to make.
I didn't see a lot of that last weekend. What I did see was some aimless high kicking with ineffective chases. When we did do #1 we ended up making ground and scored.
My biggest headscratcher is seeing forwards go away from what's clearly working.
Pretty much sums it up for me. Play winning rugby for 10 minutes then disjointed helter skelter high risk rugby for 70. We are just playing Stoopid right now.
