All Blacks 2025
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
Was in at the Sport Nation studios on friday , picked up some oil that both Fihaki and Tangitau will be selected in the first All Black squad .
Even if one of them breaks their leg?
Pretty early in the season to be locking in newbies, so I'm a bit sceptical that they are - but, I daresay both are being watched closely.
I'm imagining that for the French tests, Faingaánuku won't be back in the country -but, after that, I'm pretty sure he'll become a part of the equation. When does Jordie become available?
If they're selecting a pretty bloated squad of 36 for France, then the backs will look something like:
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham
BBarrett, McKenzie
JBarrett, Ioane, ALB, Proctor, Havili
Clarke, Reece
Jordan, LoveAnd then a few from Faingaánuku, Tangitau, Narawa, Fihaki, Perofeta, Teleá - and whomever else I've forgotten or has caught their eye.
Not sure there's space for both of Tangitau and Fihaki for a start.
There isn't in my squad - I don't need four wings.
@Chris-B Jordie will available after Leinster's season ends on May 17th or May 24th if they make the European Cup final. His playing minutes have been carefully managed by Leinster so fatigue won't be a factor. My guess is that he will play a half of so of a club footy once he's back in New Zealand. He'll be a contender for Player of the Season in the Northern Hemisphere for 2024-5. Bar serious injury, he's a certainty for the All Blacks squad against France.
Leicester F is still contracted with Toulon until the end of July. Under NZR rules he will need to play for Ta$man in the NPC before he's All Blacks eligible. So he might play towards the end of the Rugby Championship if there is an injury. I think he's a near certainty for the end of year tour. He's played well at Toulon and Robertson is a fan.
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@Tim Super rugby stats:
https://super.rugby/superrugby/competition-stats/
Reece is:
3rd= in tries scored
3rd= in clean breaks
4th in defenders beaten
7th in metres gained
1st in offloadsAn incumbent AB winger and one of the other two has signed offshore.
I don't see him missing out to Fihaki!
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https://twitter.com/GauthierBaudin/status/1858047763058954581
Cannot understand why anyone would pick Reece for test rugby. Very slow last year.
Tangitau has shown real pace and talent.
@Tim To be fair to Sevu Reece, Louis Bielle-Biarrey has been making lots of other wingers look slow in recent months. 21 years old and probably the best back in the world at the moment. The French are really lucky to have a such an exceptional talent. I wish we had someone like him at the moment. But we don't.
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@Chris-B He did that at Super Rugby level last year too, and struggled all season for the ABs.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B He did that at Super Rugby level last year too, and struggled all season for the ABs.
Maybe - but, I'm not sure about the logic that says we should instead pick someone else who doesn't look as good at Super rugby on the off chance they might be better at tests.
Teleá is leaving which opens up a spot for Tangitau, who's looked the best of the rest to me. Big Leicester is in the wings..
I don't think they'll be in any rush to punt Sevu from the start of the year.
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@Tim To be fair to Sevu Reece, Louis Bielle-Biarrey has been making lots of other wingers look slow in recent months. 21 years old and probably the best back in the world at the moment. The French are really lucky to have a such an exceptional talent. I wish we had someone like him at the moment. But we don't.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I wish we had someone like him at the moment. But we don't.
We could well do, but we're not getting the chance to find out with the selection of average carthorses possessing bland all round skills.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I wish we had someone like him at the moment. But we don't.
We could well do, but we're not getting the chance to find out with the selection of average carthorses possessing bland all round skills.
the correct term is "vanilla"
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I wish we had someone like him at the moment. But we don't.
We could well do, but we're not getting the chance to find out with the selection of average carthorses possessing bland all round skills.
the correct term is "vanilla"
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I wish we had someone like him at the moment. But we don't.
We could well do, but we're not getting the chance to find out with the selection of average carthorses possessing bland all round skills.
the correct term is "vanilla"
I thought we'd established that now means the opposite?
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B He did that at Super Rugby level last year too, and struggled all season for the ABs.
Maybe - but, I'm not sure about the logic that says we should instead pick someone else who doesn't look as good at Super rugby on the off chance they might be better at tests.
Teleá is leaving which opens up a spot for Tangitau, who's looked the best of the rest to me. Big Leicester is in the wings..
I don't think they'll be in any rush to punt Sevu from the start of the year.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B He did that at Super Rugby level last year too, and struggled all season for the ABs.
Maybe - but, I'm not sure about the logic that says we should instead pick someone else who doesn't look as good at Super rugby on the off chance they might be better at tests.
Teleá is leaving which opens up a spot for Tangitau, who's looked the best of the rest to me. Big Leicester is in the wings..
I don't think they'll be in any rush to punt Sevu from the start of the year.
Well, they can't have it both ways.
If they are picking on Super form, fine, do that.
But, that means no Fihaki. So, if they want him, they see something that is needed at test rugby that is not shown at Super.
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I suspect those that want Razor to fail are the marginal 'fans' that are not unlike those who wanted Henry to fail after ousting Deans.
Vast majority of fans want him to succeed, want him to return us to the top of the pile, and last year, he made it hard with some calls many saw as bias or bonkers, there will always be some provincial lines that blur calls too.
I'd say this year will give us a much better picture of whether he is upto the task or not, if we cant start to climb back up after the slide that started around 2016/2017, might be time to start supporting the Warriors....
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd say this year will give us a much better picture of whether he is upto the task or not, if we cant start to climb back up after the slide that started around 2016/2017, might be time to start supporting the Warriors....
We started the climb back in 2023 IMHO and are still progressing, though patchily. Expected in his first year
The forwards look good, esp. the tight 5, there's options available at 6/7/8 and we're in a much better position at 9. 11 & 14 are also OK. I think 10 is solid, but concerned about options if DMac is injured, midfield is still a bit of a mess and we're still in a muddle at 15.
This year Robertson needs to get the loosies working as a unit, try some options at 12/13 and give "new" players like Lakai, Perofeta, Proctor, Love etc. way, way more game time than last year.
Sense there's still an issue around on-field leadership. The headless chicken stuff has abated, but we're still not in a good space when under pressure. Again, expected with a new coach and captain but he needs to work on the on-field smarts this year.
Be a bit bolder and confident. Oh, and sort out the bloody exits and re-starts - almost seems like that's an afterthought with this bunch.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd say this year will give us a much better picture of whether he is upto the task or not, if we cant start to climb back up after the slide that started around 2016/2017, might be time to start supporting the Warriors....
We started the climb back in 2023 IMHO and are still progressing, though patchily. Expected in his first year
The forwards look good, esp. the tight 5, there's options available at 6/7/8 and we're in a much better position at 9. 11 & 14 are also OK. I think 10 is solid, but concerned about options if DMac is injured, midfield is still a bit of a mess and we're still in a muddle at 15.
This year Robertson needs to get the loosies working as a unit, try some options at 12/13 and give "new" players like Lakai, Perofeta, Proctor, Love etc. way, way more game time than last year.
Sense there's still an issue around on-field leadership. The headless chicken stuff has abated, but we're still not in a good space when under pressure. Again, expected with a new coach and captain but he needs to work on the on-field smarts this year.
Be a bit bolder and confident. Oh, and sort out the bloody exits and re-starts - almost seems like that's an afterthought with this bunch.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd say this year will give us a much better picture of whether he is upto the task or not, if we cant start to climb back up after the slide that started around 2016/2017, might be time to start supporting the Warriors....
We started the climb back in 2023 IMHO and are still progressing, though patchily. Expected in his first year
The forwards look good, esp. the tight 5, there's options available at 6/7/8 and we're in a much better position at 9. 11 & 14 are also OK. I think 10 is solid, but concerned about options if DMac is injured, midfield is still a bit of a mess and we're still in a muddle at 15.
This year Robertson needs to get the loosies working as a unit, try some options at 12/13 and give "new" players like Lakai, Perofeta, Proctor, Love etc. way, way more game time than last year.
Sense there's still an issue around on-field leadership. The headless chicken stuff has abated, but we're still not in a good space when under pressure. Again, expected with a new coach and captain but he needs to work on the on-field smarts this year.
Be a bit bolder and confident. Oh, and sort out the bloody exits and re-starts - almost seems like that's an afterthought with this bunch.
Re watched a few games this Easter weekend to refresh the memory. The amount of dumb decisions that were made that cost the All Blacks in South Africa and France were staggering. Unbelievable stupid in some many cases.
I also forgot how much of a liability TJP was. Thank fuck he’s gone.
Would say the same with Cane but it is so evident that the attacking breakdown is a mess without him and Whitelock around. There needs to be a priority of picking some players who do the dirty work. Not just make up junk metres down the edge.
The leadership core needs to change. B Barrett and Savea are part of a generation that have been constant losers (Lions, 2x RWC fuck ups, loses to Argentina, the rot against Ireland). There can’t be any inspiration or confidence from that group. Flush it out, start anew with a group of young, confident players.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd say this year will give us a much better picture of whether he is upto the task or not, if we cant start to climb back up after the slide that started around 2016/2017, might be time to start supporting the Warriors....
We started the climb back in 2023 IMHO and are still progressing, though patchily. Expected in his first year
The forwards look good, esp. the tight 5, there's options available at 6/7/8 and we're in a much better position at 9. 11 & 14 are also OK. I think 10 is solid, but concerned about options if DMac is injured, midfield is still a bit of a mess and we're still in a muddle at 15.
This year Robertson needs to get the loosies working as a unit, try some options at 12/13 and give "new" players like Lakai, Perofeta, Proctor, Love etc. way, way more game time than last year.
Sense there's still an issue around on-field leadership. The headless chicken stuff has abated, but we're still not in a good space when under pressure. Again, expected with a new coach and captain but he needs to work on the on-field smarts this year.
Be a bit bolder and confident. Oh, and sort out the bloody exits and re-starts - almost seems like that's an afterthought with this bunch.
Re watched a few games this Easter weekend to refresh the memory. The amount of dumb decisions that were made that cost the All Blacks in South Africa and France were staggering. Unbelievable stupid in some many cases.
I also forgot how much of a liability TJP was. Thank fuck he’s gone.
Would say the same with Cane but it is so evident that the attacking breakdown is a mess without him and Whitelock around. There needs to be a priority of picking some players who do the dirty work. Not just make up junk metres down the edge.
The leadership core needs to change. B Barrett and Savea are part of a generation that have been constant losers (Lions, 2x RWC fuck ups, loses to Argentina, the rot against Ireland). There can’t be any inspiration or confidence from that group. Flush it out, start anew with a group of young, confident players.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Unbelievable stupid in some many cases.
Maybe a bit of indecision too.
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@booboo to be fair his form is way better than it was last year when he was a surprise selection has shown some really good speed in open space at times and does possess a massive punt and can place kick from distance
I really don’t know end of the day Razor seems to see something in him that many of us can’t see
Anything to add @Chris@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
his form is way better than it was last year
Not exactly a resounding endorsement.
I'll be the first to admit that his form is better, I think I was and got flak for it.
But I still don't see a player who is screaming "pick me" as an All Black.
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Was in at the Sport Nation studios on friday , picked up some oil that both Fihaki and Tangitau will be selected in the first All Black squad .
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
Was in at the Sport Nation studios on friday , picked up some oil that both Fihaki and Tangitau will be selected in the first All Black squad .
I would imagine they would have a squad in mind if they selected it today .
But there is always wriggle room to change their mind between now and then
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
his form is way better than it was last year
Not exactly a resounding endorsement.
I'll be the first to admit that his form is better, I think I was and got flak for it.
But I still don't see a player who is screaming "pick me" as an All Black.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
his form is way better than it was last year
Not exactly a resounding endorsement.
I'll be the first to admit that his form is better, I think I was and got flak for it.
But I still don't see a player who is screaming "pick me" as an All Black.
The thing that annoys me a bit about Fihaki getting included, is that Shaun Stevenson had bashed the door down for years, is a better player than Fihaki, but had defensive issues and got crucified for it. It almost felt like he got picked to shut the public up before getting spat out into no man's land once he missed a tackle.
Fihaki, whose defence so far looks worse than Stevenson, seems to be getting every opportunity possible to prove himself. If he gets picked and does well, fair play, but as of right now in their careers, Stevenson has done far more to deserve some sort of run in the black jersey than someone like Fihaki.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd say this year will give us a much better picture of whether he is upto the task or not, if we cant start to climb back up after the slide that started around 2016/2017, might be time to start supporting the Warriors....
We started the climb back in 2023 IMHO and are still progressing, though patchily. Expected in his first year
The forwards look good, esp. the tight 5, there's options available at 6/7/8 and we're in a much better position at 9. 11 & 14 are also OK. I think 10 is solid, but concerned about options if DMac is injured, midfield is still a bit of a mess and we're still in a muddle at 15.
This year Robertson needs to get the loosies working as a unit, try some options at 12/13 and give "new" players like Lakai, Perofeta, Proctor, Love etc. way, way more game time than last year.
Sense there's still an issue around on-field leadership. The headless chicken stuff has abated, but we're still not in a good space when under pressure. Again, expected with a new coach and captain but he needs to work on the on-field smarts this year.
Be a bit bolder and confident. Oh, and sort out the bloody exits and re-starts - almost seems like that's an afterthought with this bunch.
Re watched a few games this Easter weekend to refresh the memory. The amount of dumb decisions that were made that cost the All Blacks in South Africa and France were staggering. Unbelievable stupid in some many cases.
I also forgot how much of a liability TJP was. Thank fuck he’s gone.
Would say the same with Cane but it is so evident that the attacking breakdown is a mess without him and Whitelock around. There needs to be a priority of picking some players who do the dirty work. Not just make up junk metres down the edge.
The leadership core needs to change. B Barrett and Savea are part of a generation that have been constant losers (Lions, 2x RWC fuck ups, loses to Argentina, the rot against Ireland). There can’t be any inspiration or confidence from that group. Flush it out, start anew with a group of young, confident players.
@KiwiInLondon Geez you are a harsh judge. Hope none of the players or coaches read your posts.
But more concerning is the wording of a bunch of earlier posts. If the AB selectors are really telling fringe candidates they are in at this stage of the season then something is very very wrong with their methods. I would hope it is all about getting around candidates and telling them what they need to work on to make their best case for selection.
Can anyone elaborate on what exactly is being said?
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Here's something to criticise/discuss.
Marc Hinton and Paul Cully selected their AB team to play now. They've taken different approaches with JB, and there is some provincial bias. Neither chose Tele'a.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
Here's something to criticise/discuss.
Marc Hinton and Paul Cully selected their AB team to play now. They've taken different approaches with JB, and there is some provincial bias. Neither chose Tele'a.
late to the party but these have to be piss takes surely? No one who gets paid to talk about rugby would serve this level of shit up in any serious capacity.
right?
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
Was in at the Sport Nation studios on friday , picked up some oil that both Fihaki and Tangitau will be selected in the first All Black squad .
Even if one of them breaks their leg?
Pretty early in the season to be locking in newbies, so I'm a bit sceptical that they are - but, I daresay both are being watched closely.
I'm imagining that for the French tests, Faingaánuku won't be back in the country -but, after that, I'm pretty sure he'll become a part of the equation. When does Jordie become available?
If they're selecting a pretty bloated squad of 36 for France, then the backs will look something like:
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham
BBarrett, McKenzie
JBarrett, Ioane, ALB, Proctor, Havili
Clarke, Reece
Jordan, LoveAnd then a few from Faingaánuku, Tangitau, Narawa, Fihaki, Perofeta, Teleá - and whomever else I've forgotten or has caught their eye.
Not sure there's space for both of Tangitau and Fihaki for a start.
There isn't in my squad - I don't need four wings.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
Was in at the Sport Nation studios on friday , picked up some oil that both Fihaki and Tangitau will be selected in the first All Black squad .
Even if one of them breaks their leg?
Pretty early in the season to be locking in newbies, so I'm a bit sceptical that they are - but, I daresay both are being watched closely.
I'm imagining that for the French tests, Faingaánuku won't be back in the country -but, after that, I'm pretty sure he'll become a part of the equation. When does Jordie become available?
If they're selecting a pretty bloated squad of 36 for France, then the backs will look something like:
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham
BBarrett, McKenzie
JBarrett, Ioane, ALB, Proctor, Havili
Clarke, Reece
Jordan, LoveAnd then a few from Faingaánuku, Tangitau, Narawa, Fihaki, Perofeta, Teleá - and whomever else I've forgotten or has caught their eye.
Not sure there's space for both of Tangitau and Fihaki for a start.
There isn't in my squad - I don't need four wings.
I think you are pretty spot on here. My preference would be Lam over Havili but I can see them picking Havili, especially considering he's been performing for one of the front runners. I'd love them to pick Ioane as a winger to include Lam though.
Would really love to see Tangitau get in as a winger. I think we need some fresh blood on the wing and I think he will be deadly at international level with his work-rate and speed.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t know why people can’t comprehend that just picking 15 new players isn’t a good idea
Nice straw man argument. Who has suggested 15 new players?
My point more generally, is in my opinion, people are going overboard. The All Blacks issues are personnel problems, particularly in the loose forwards. We lack a big enforcer… we are crying out for a player like Harry Wilson. We lack an elite first five… McKenzie isn’t that, but he is probably the best we have - there’s no depth either.
We’re talking about fine margins here, and at the moment we don’t have the solutions… switching Ioane for Billy Proctor for example, in my opinion, wouldn’t make a difference, but if it did, it would be minimal.
Trying new players in certain positions probably makes us worse - not better.
Barring injuries, of the ABs XV who played France, is there anyone obvious who moves the needle on that team? Ruben Love is another example here. Might he be a good option if Jordan is to play on the wing? Maybe, but he hasn’t shown a level at Super Rugby to suggest he is a world-beater.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t know why people can’t comprehend that just picking 15 new players isn’t a good idea
Nice straw man argument. Who has suggested 15 new players?
My point more generally, is in my opinion, people are going overboard. The All Blacks issues are personnel problems, particularly in the loose forwards. We lack a big enforcer… we are crying out for a player like Harry Wilson. We lack an elite first five… McKenzie isn’t that, but he is probably the best we have - there’s no depth either.
We’re talking about fine margins here, and at the moment we don’t have the solutions… switching Ioane for Billy Proctor for example, in my opinion, wouldn’t make a difference, but if it did, it would be minimal.
Trying new players in certain positions probably makes us worse - not better.
Barring injuries, of the ABs XV who played France, is there anyone obvious who moves the needle on that team? Ruben Love is another example here. Might he be a good option if Jordan is to play on the wing? Maybe, but he hasn’t shown a level at Super Rugby to suggest he is a world-beater.
I couldn't disagree with this post more. We absolutely have the personnel, our problems are poor game plans and poor on-field decision making, which is a coaching problem. We could have beaten SA in SA, and France in France, but we threw those games away with poor tactics and decisions.
We have two vastly experienced 10s, and DMac is absolutely an elite 10 that most (all?) international teams would love to have in their 23, I am struggling to believe you think otherwise. He guided us to smacking the Irish in their own back yard in our best performance last year. He has a strong kicking game, a strong passing game, kicks his goals, and is a real threat ball in hand - exactly the type of 10 modern AB teams have wanted. He also makes very few errors these days, but because he was error prone when he first hit the scene people can't seem to come to terms with the idea that he has actually improved over time, so that mud just won't wash off.
On the loosies, the coaches don't seem to think we have a personnel problem there, particularly at 6 where they started workhorse Blackadder every single game he was fit. They felt Akira and Sotutu were surplus to requirements, despite both being in career best form, and in Akira's case plenty of experience in black including multiple MOTM performances. The only reason we lack an "enforcer" at 6 is because the coaches don't want an enforcer, they want someone with a high work rate instead. Again, that's a tactics/coaching problem, not a personnel problem.
And how the hell do we know that giving players that dominated Super a chance at test level would only make a minimal difference? They chucked rookie Sititi in at 6 when Blackadder was inevitably injured, a position he was not familiar with, and he dominated. And that was after he got taught a lesson in the Super final by Akira so it's not like he was even dominating all comers at the level down that year. To not even given some of these other guys a chance, while selecting people like Bell and Fihaki, is again a coaching problem not a personnel problem.
NZ still has stacks of talent. What we need is a coach that actually knows how to get the best out of that talent with game plans and tactics that suit their strengths. Most international coaches would give their left testicle for a guy like Rieko, yet all we did last year was use him as a crash ball merchant?? Wtf?
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Not to be overly negative, but can any one tell me what brand of rugby Razor's ABs play. For all the other big teams i can pretty much tell you what their over all plan is. I have no idea what the ABs are trying to do. It often looks different depending on who has the ball in their hands at any given time.
