All Blacks 2025
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
In terms of Back Row selection, I've always thought (unless you're playing a test in shit playing conditions) it's too conservative to have one guy who is just there to be an extra tight forward.
What you want are three players whose bread and butter is the hard stuff in and around the breakdown, but if the situation and the game plan needs it can be devastating in the wide channels too.
The Kaino-McCaw-Read trio was like that.
Razor did play a lot of Rugby with Ruben Thorne.
@MN5 I'll resist the easy bait as I've already provoked a red and black swarm this weekend.
But I'll say this, by far the best Test performance I saw from Reuben Thorne was in the 2003 Bledisloe decider in the wet in Auckland. And the Aussies haven't touched the trophy since.
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In my summary, I forgot Simon Parker. He is big and strong, and carries well. But I find him slow for an international loose forward and I don't think he could be a useful complement to Sititi and Savea (two smallish forwards) as he is not a reliable lineout target.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
I like Howden at 6, seems the perfect type of player to complement Savea and Sititi.
I like his athleticism but has he done enough this year to warrant a selection ? I don't think so.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
I like Howden at 6, seems the perfect type of player to complement Savea and Sititi.
I like his athleticism but has he done enough this year to warrant a selection ? I don't think so.
He'd definitely be a punt, but he's playing all the right songs for me and gets himself involved. Worthwhile alternative to Finau.
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I hope you put that bet on we talked about @gt12
Savea walks in the player of the year
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I hope you put that bet on we talked about @gt12
Savea walks in the player of the year
I think I did. Better check the tea and breadshop account.
TBH, he's been very fucking good so it can't really be argued, and It has been pleasing to see some absolute quality from other MP players. I'd select Failagi in my AB squad, for starters.
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In my summary, I forgot Simon Parker. He is big and strong, and carries well. But I find him slow for an international loose forward and I don't think he could be a useful complement to Sititi and Savea (two smallish forwards) as he is not a reliable lineout target.
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@cgrant I think Simon Parker's All Blacks XV standard rather than a realistic candidate for the full national squad. He's a solid all round loose forward at Super Level, but I'm not sure he'll cope with the physicality of Test Rugby.
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I asked Chat GTP who played 6 for the All Blacks, apart from Wallace Sititi, in 2024. I would thought the same individuals and Cullen Grace are the likely suspect this year. Peter Lakai will cover 7 and 8 behind Ardie Savea and Walllace Sititi.
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Think the loose forwards will likely be:
Samipeni Finau (6)
Luke Jacobson (6/8)
Peter Lakai (7/8)
Ardie Savea (7/8)
Wallace Sititi (6/8)
Ethan Blackadder or Dalton Papali'i (7)@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Think the loose forwards will likely be:
Samipeni Finau (6)
Luke Jacobson (6/8)
Peter Lakai (7/8)
Ardie Savea (7/8)
Wallace Sititi (6/8)
Ethan Blackadder or Dalton Papali'i (7)Drop Finau to include the last two,, add a 7 to Sititi and Jacobson. More cowbell.
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Cullen Grace gets brought up a lot for a guy that has played a single test from the bench 5 years ago
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
Cullen Grace gets brought up a lot for a guy that has played a single test from the bench 5 years ago
He makes Thorne look dynamic.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Think the loose forwards will likely be:
Samipeni Finau (6)
Luke Jacobson (6/8)
Peter Lakai (7/8)
Ardie Savea (7/8)
Wallace Sititi (6/8)
Ethan Blackadder or Dalton Papali'i (7)Drop Finau to include the last two,, add a 7 to Sititi and Jacobson. More cowbell.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Think the loose forwards will likely be:
Samipeni Finau (6)
Luke Jacobson (6/8)
Peter Lakai (7/8)
Ardie Savea (7/8)
Wallace Sititi (6/8)
Ethan Blackadder or Dalton Papali'i (7)Drop Finau to include the last two,, add a 7 to Sititi and Jacobson. More cowbell.
Was less about which positions they can cover and more about which positions I can see them starting in for the All Blacks this year.
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@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
Who on earth has thought that "Ardie is not All Black level" in the last nine years?
Plenty suggested he didn't play that well last year. And they were right.
Plot twist. At the end of the year, Ardie removes his mask and underneath he's....Laumape.
Haterz
@Bones said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
Who on earth has thought that "Ardie is not All Black level" in the last nine years?
Plenty suggested he didn't play that well last year. And they were right.
Plot twist. At the end of the year, Ardie removes his mask and underneath he's....Laumape.
Haterz
dusruspekt
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I can definitely see the upside of Ah Koui as a test 6, would love to see more of him there at Super level.
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Summary for the future squad :
Hookers :
Codie Taylor is a certainty;
Taukei'aho as well;
Aumua : has not fully recovered from a nasty injury. LO throwing still a work on.
Moananu : he could be a bolter as he is the best LO thrower in the country and has a very good workmate. Small but strong.Loosehead props :
Tamaiti Williams : probably the best of the bunch. Strong scrummager, powerful in the loose, good hands. Defence not his strength.
Ethan de Groot : despite a poor SR rugby campaign (with the notable exception of the game against the Hurricanes), he should be in. Good scrummager but does not bring very much in the loose. Not many meters gained in regard to his impressive physique.
Olli Norris : he could be a bolter as his scrummaging is far better this year and he is the best ball carrier of them all. Good at shifting bodies in the rucks too.
George Bower : Solid servant with no weaknesses but without notable strength. He is a Crusader but his age could count against him.
Xavier Numia : he has not recovered from his long injury. Actually, he is a shadow of his former self. Not as dynamic as he used to be but scrums adequately. I don't see him join the squad.Tight head props :
Lomax : best THP in the country. He is a certainty.
Tosi : not his best season that's for sure but he is beginning to regain some form. Won a penalty but conceded one against EdG on Friday. Powerful in the loose. He should be Lomax's understudy.
Fletcher Newell : seems to carry more effectively this year. Still a strong scrummager. He should be the third THP within the squad;
George Dyer : very good workrate and good if not dominant scrummager. He could be a bolter but this would be a big surprise as far as I am concerned.Locks :
Scott Barrett : he is a certainty despite being rather anonymous this season. Will he retain his captaincy ?
Tupou Vai'i : best lock in the country ... by a country mile. Another certainty for the squad;
Patrick Tuipolutu : not a great SR season for him, hampered by a few niggles. His experience should prevail for a place in the squad.
Holland : he has not progressed as quickly as I expected but maybe it is because he is playing in a very collectively weak team. Very effective in disrupting opposition's throws at the LO, solid work in the rucks and mauls. His weakness is his lack of power in his ball carrying IMO; I think he will be selected thanks to Darry's injury.
Josh Lord : he is made of glass, despite having added a few Kgs to his frame. He is a contender but I don't see him get the nod.
Ah Kuoi : he is having a great SR season. Excellent workrate, uncompromising attitude. He may be a bit too light for an international lock.
Sam Darry : he could have been the squad's fourth lock but his injury will probably keep him out. He has all the qualities to become a world class lock IMO.
Walker-Leawere : his indiscipline should keep him out of contention. It's a shame because his power could be useful against the SA or French packs.
Antonio Shalfoon : he is the Crusaders best lock this year. I thought he was a journeyman but he did far better than I expected. He is a Crusader so he is a possibility for the squad.Loose forwards :
Ardie Savea : a certainty. Will he become the team's captain ? He probably deserves it.
Wallace Sititi : another certainty despite his recent recovery from injury. He and Savea are both outstanding ball carriers.
Hoskins Sotutu : in terms of technique, he is probably the best Nr.8 in NZ. His lack of versatility might count against him.
Peter Lakai : he was outstanding against France last year and has played better and better after a slow start in the SR. A good player to have on the bench. He should be in.
Dalton Papali'i : very sound player who lacks the X-factor one could expect from such a gifted man. He could be in but he could also but out of the squad. Who knows ?
Jacobson : solid but not brillant. Anonymous in his outings with the ABs but very good with the Chiefs. He and Papali'i are the same type of players.
Finau : the big mystery. Physically imposing but does not impose himself at the upper level. If he plays to his potential, he could be a world beater. I think he will be in because of the lack of other valuable options.
Cullen Grace : solid, excellent at the lineout but physically a bit light for an international blindside flanker.
Ethan Blackadder : great workrate but does not have the expected impact, maybe because of his automatic injuries. One of Robertson's favorites so he might be in.
Du Plessis Kirifi : excellent at the breakdown but his lack of versatility might count against him. If Tavatavanawai is selected, then Kirifi could not be needed as they both play the same "jackaling" role.
Christian Lio-Willie : strong ball carrier but physically too limited for an international Nr.8 IMO. Plays for the Crusaders, though.Halfbacks :
Cam Roigard : not his best season so far. Good passing, good kicking, but many unusual mistakes in this SR season. However, he is a certainty for the squad.
Cortez Ratima : not his best season as he has been seriously challenged by Roe. He should be in the squad though. I'd like the idea of having two distinct combos : Roigard/Love and Ratima/DMac in the 23.
Finlay Christie : I don't think he will make the squad because he has been rather meh so far.
Noah Hotham : he could be in though he is not the finished article yet. Snipes well but his passing is too slow.
Fakatava : snipes well too but his passing lets him down at times. Tends to make silly errors but he can be brillant.
Funaki : solid but does not play for the good team and is not yet the finished article.
Preston : plays for the Saders. Sharp pass but weak in defence. I don't think he will make it.1st Five :
DMac : probably the best in the country. The Chiefs are a different team when he is not their playmaker.
Beauden Barrett : I guess he will be selected but more on his reputation than on his recent performances. Questionable goal and tactical kicking. However, he is still capable of showing glimpses of his former brillance.
Ruben Love : like the two above, he can play fullback and 1st Five. Brillant player with a thousand qualities. Questions about his game management as a 1st Five.2nd Five :
Jordie Barrett : he is a certainty. 2nd Five is probably his best position.
David Havili : one of Robertson's favorites but has not done a lot at the upper level. Will he get selected while there are other younger options ?
Quinn Tupaea : solid and uncompromising but still has to prove his worth on the international scene. If Havili is in, then he would be out of the squad.
Riley Higgins : good passer and offloader but his defence is still a work on. I have doubts about his chances to get picked.
Tavatavanawai : he is a type of player the ABs never had in their ranks. He could bring something different. He is a constant menace at the breakdown and could be useful in a tight game where the ABs have to defend their line. He could be a bolter for the selection.Centres :
Rieko Ioane : not a good year for him so far. He should be in, though, thanks to his anteriority and lack of experienced alternatives.
Billy Proctor : the best passing centre in NZ. He knows how to put a player into space. Good in defence, too. It would be a very bad surprise if he is not selected.
Tanielu Tele'a : strongest ball carrying centre in NZ. I don't know much about his defensive qualities. His versatility could make him a bolter for the squad.Back three :
Will Jordan : he is a certainty, probably as a fullback but with three potential fullbacks (DMac, BB and Love), he could be pushed to the right wing.
Caleb Clarke : Not a good season for him but he has plenty of qualities (speed, strength and safety under the high balls) which will probably take him into the squad.
Sevu Reece : great workrate but his lack of speed against the likes of Bielle Biarrey and Kolbe could be a major deficiency. I really don't know whether he will be selected or not.
Mark Tele'a : he certainly knows how the slip through tackles but his lack of speed and the fact that he is heading overseas might count against him.
Emoni Narawa : no known weaknesses. Has been very good so far for the Chiefs.
AJ Lam : can play wing, 2nd Five and centre. Quick and powerful, he has already been in the AB squad and could well retain his place.
Leroy Carter : has entered the conversation lately. His defensive frailties and inexperience at the highest level could count against him.
Caleb Tangitau : a shame that he has been injured as he was the form winger before. His sheer speed is something the ABs did not have in their squad last year. He is not yet the finished article but I'd like to see him taken at least as an apprentice.
Shaun Stevenson : he has been very good for the Chiefs this year. Brillant in attack and big boot. Has not shown the defensive lapses he used to show the years before. Unfortunately he is leaving so he won't get picked.
Bailyn Sullivan : he has been great for the Hurricanes. Excellent tackler and opportunist try scorer. Despite these positive accomplishments, it would be a big surprise to see him getting selected.@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
Summary for the future squad :
Hookers :
Codie Taylor is a certainty;
Taukei'aho as well;
Aumua : has not fully recovered from a nasty injury. LO throwing still a work on.
Moananu : he could be a bolter as he is the best LO thrower in the country and has a very good workmate. Small but strong.Loosehead props :
Tamaiti Williams : probably the best of the bunch. Strong scrummager, powerful in the loose, good hands. Defence not his strength.
Ethan de Groot : despite a poor SR rugby campaign (with the notable exception of the game against the Hurricanes), he should be in. Good scrummager but does not bring very much in the loose. Not many meters gained in regard to his impressive physique.
Olli Norris : he could be a bolter as his scrummaging is far better this year and he is the best ball carrier of them all. Good at shifting bodies in the rucks too.
George Bower : Solid servant with no weaknesses but without notable strength. He is a Crusader but his age could count against him.
Xavier Numia : he has not recovered from his long injury. Actually, he is a shadow of his former self. Not as dynamic as he used to be but scrums adequately. I don't see him join the squad.Tight head props :
Lomax : best THP in the country. He is a certainty.
Tosi : not his best season that's for sure but he is beginning to regain some form. Won a penalty but conceded one against EdG on Friday. Powerful in the loose. He should be Lomax's understudy.
Fletcher Newell : seems to carry more effectively this year. Still a strong scrummager. He should be the third THP within the squad;
George Dyer : very good workrate and good if not dominant scrummager. He could be a bolter but this would be a big surprise as far as I am concerned.Locks :
Scott Barrett : he is a certainty despite being rather anonymous this season. Will he retain his captaincy ?
Tupou Vai'i : best lock in the country ... by a country mile. Another certainty for the squad;
Patrick Tuipolutu : not a great SR season for him, hampered by a few niggles. His experience should prevail for a place in the squad.
Holland : he has not progressed as quickly as I expected but maybe it is because he is playing in a very collectively weak team. Very effective in disrupting opposition's throws at the LO, solid work in the rucks and mauls. His weakness is his lack of power in his ball carrying IMO; I think he will be selected thanks to Darry's injury.
Josh Lord : he is made of glass, despite having added a few Kgs to his frame. He is a contender but I don't see him get the nod.
Ah Kuoi : he is having a great SR season. Excellent workrate, uncompromising attitude. He may be a bit too light for an international lock.
Sam Darry : he could have been the squad's fourth lock but his injury will probably keep him out. He has all the qualities to become a world class lock IMO.
Walker-Leawere : his indiscipline should keep him out of contention. It's a shame because his power could be useful against the SA or French packs.
Antonio Shalfoon : he is the Crusaders best lock this year. I thought he was a journeyman but he did far better than I expected. He is a Crusader so he is a possibility for the squad.Loose forwards :
Ardie Savea : a certainty. Will he become the team's captain ? He probably deserves it.
Wallace Sititi : another certainty despite his recent recovery from injury. He and Savea are both outstanding ball carriers.
Hoskins Sotutu : in terms of technique, he is probably the best Nr.8 in NZ. His lack of versatility might count against him.
Peter Lakai : he was outstanding against France last year and has played better and better after a slow start in the SR. A good player to have on the bench. He should be in.
Dalton Papali'i : very sound player who lacks the X-factor one could expect from such a gifted man. He could be in but he could also but out of the squad. Who knows ?
Jacobson : solid but not brillant. Anonymous in his outings with the ABs but very good with the Chiefs. He and Papali'i are the same type of players.
Finau : the big mystery. Physically imposing but does not impose himself at the upper level. If he plays to his potential, he could be a world beater. I think he will be in because of the lack of other valuable options.
Cullen Grace : solid, excellent at the lineout but physically a bit light for an international blindside flanker.
Ethan Blackadder : great workrate but does not have the expected impact, maybe because of his automatic injuries. One of Robertson's favorites so he might be in.
Du Plessis Kirifi : excellent at the breakdown but his lack of versatility might count against him. If Tavatavanawai is selected, then Kirifi could not be needed as they both play the same "jackaling" role.
Christian Lio-Willie : strong ball carrier but physically too limited for an international Nr.8 IMO. Plays for the Crusaders, though.Halfbacks :
Cam Roigard : not his best season so far. Good passing, good kicking, but many unusual mistakes in this SR season. However, he is a certainty for the squad.
Cortez Ratima : not his best season as he has been seriously challenged by Roe. He should be in the squad though. I'd like the idea of having two distinct combos : Roigard/Love and Ratima/DMac in the 23.
Finlay Christie : I don't think he will make the squad because he has been rather meh so far.
Noah Hotham : he could be in though he is not the finished article yet. Snipes well but his passing is too slow.
Fakatava : snipes well too but his passing lets him down at times. Tends to make silly errors but he can be brillant.
Funaki : solid but does not play for the good team and is not yet the finished article.
Preston : plays for the Saders. Sharp pass but weak in defence. I don't think he will make it.1st Five :
DMac : probably the best in the country. The Chiefs are a different team when he is not their playmaker.
Beauden Barrett : I guess he will be selected but more on his reputation than on his recent performances. Questionable goal and tactical kicking. However, he is still capable of showing glimpses of his former brillance.
Ruben Love : like the two above, he can play fullback and 1st Five. Brillant player with a thousand qualities. Questions about his game management as a 1st Five.2nd Five :
Jordie Barrett : he is a certainty. 2nd Five is probably his best position.
David Havili : one of Robertson's favorites but has not done a lot at the upper level. Will he get selected while there are other younger options ?
Quinn Tupaea : solid and uncompromising but still has to prove his worth on the international scene. If Havili is in, then he would be out of the squad.
Riley Higgins : good passer and offloader but his defence is still a work on. I have doubts about his chances to get picked.
Tavatavanawai : he is a type of player the ABs never had in their ranks. He could bring something different. He is a constant menace at the breakdown and could be useful in a tight game where the ABs have to defend their line. He could be a bolter for the selection.Centres :
Rieko Ioane : not a good year for him so far. He should be in, though, thanks to his anteriority and lack of experienced alternatives.
Billy Proctor : the best passing centre in NZ. He knows how to put a player into space. Good in defence, too. It would be a very bad surprise if he is not selected.
Tanielu Tele'a : strongest ball carrying centre in NZ. I don't know much about his defensive qualities. His versatility could make him a bolter for the squad.Back three :
Will Jordan : he is a certainty, probably as a fullback but with three potential fullbacks (DMac, BB and Love), he could be pushed to the right wing.
Caleb Clarke : Not a good season for him but he has plenty of qualities (speed, strength and safety under the high balls) which will probably take him into the squad.
Sevu Reece : great workrate but his lack of speed against the likes of Bielle Biarrey and Kolbe could be a major deficiency. I really don't know whether he will be selected or not.
Mark Tele'a : he certainly knows how the slip through tackles but his lack of speed and the fact that he is heading overseas might count against him.
Emoni Narawa : no known weaknesses. Has been very good so far for the Chiefs.
AJ Lam : can play wing, 2nd Five and centre. Quick and powerful, he has already been in the AB squad and could well retain his place.
Leroy Carter : has entered the conversation lately. His defensive frailties and inexperience at the highest level could count against him.
Caleb Tangitau : a shame that he has been injured as he was the form winger before. His sheer speed is something the ABs did not have in their squad last year. He is not yet the finished article but I'd like to see him taken at least as an apprentice.
Shaun Stevenson : he has been very good for the Chiefs this year. Brillant in attack and big boot. Has not shown the defensive lapses he used to show the years before. Unfortunately he is leaving so he won't get picked.
Bailyn Sullivan : he has been great for the Hurricanes. Excellent tackler and opportunist try scorer. Despite these positive accomplishments, it would be a big surprise to see him getting selected.Well thought through and comprehensive summary.
I think Tosi is in the equation at TH.
Is the comment about Numia’s calf injury an observation or based on some published info?
