All Blacks 2025
-
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now.
Yeah true, if you ignore super rugby, he was anonymous.
As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
See above.
-
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Yeah Sititi was hardly a bold and courageous call, he only got on the field because Razor favourite Blackadder broke down yet again.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
Nope not when I think they deserve to be in the equation. Funny the guys that I talked up last year all played for the ABs (Love, Proctor and Lakai) so I’m not just talking out my arse.
I’m not saying Flanders will be an AB, I’m just pointing out that he could be another option to look at, if you read my comments I also said he needs to work on his physicality etc on defence and would need to first stay on the field for a good stretch of time to show what he’s made of.
-
i find NZ rugby to be hyper insular and conservative.
We're overly focused on reducing risk over exploiting opportunity (see nearly every player chat being focused on errors rather than anything else), and we select everywhere as cover for disaster rather than a chance to add a positive.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i find NZ rugby to be hyper insular and conservative.
I'd add we constantly look to replace retired players with exact replicas rather than pick the best player for that position and let them develop their own style.
E.g. We still look for a Kaino replacement when he last played in Black when he retired best part of a decade ago.
-
Success has followed Robertson everywhere he has gone. In only one season as Crusaders/Canterbury coach did he not win the title. I'd back him to figure things out. Of the regular team last year, there is vacancy in the loose forwards to be filled, but outside of that, the only obvious change to make would be Proctor in for Ioane at 13. I am not sure there is anyone else who wasn't in and around the matchday 23 last year who has forced there way into a best starting XV. Obviously the bench plays a big role these days, but other than Tupaea or Tavatavanawai potentially coming onto the bench, again the guys who have been in the best form are largely the guys already there.
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
I'm with you @frugby .
The first assumption appears to be that Fozzie's (and Schmidt and Ryan) RWC team - that got to the final and probably (SA fans take note) would have won if we hadn't had to play 60 minutes with 14 men and our goal kickers had been a bit luckier - was a bit of a fuck up.
I don't believe that. I think that team was pretty much spot on.
And after that, we were shorn of Coles, Taukeiáho, Laulala, Retallick, Whitelock, Frizell, Smith, Mo'unga and Faingaánuku - as well as lesser injuries that took players out for portions of the seaon, including Jordan, Papali'i, Blackadder and Jacobson. They also dropped Christie. Large-scale enforced changes for an international team.
The first person who mentioned Tosi as an option was (I'm pretty sure), Mark Hinton (including on the Fern) - less than a week out from the team naming.
At the first team naming, they picked 32 players. They were only ever going to pick (at most) two number 8s. Savea (reigning World Player of the Year) and one other - Sotutu or Sititi.
I thought they'd pick Hoskins. They picked Wallace. With the benefit of hindsight, I think I was wrong!
Nothing against Hoskins, but they're very different players.
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i find NZ rugby to be hyper insular and conservative.
I'd add we constantly look to replace retired players with exact replicas rather than pick the best player for that position and let them develop their own style.
E.g. We still look for a Kaino replacement when he last played in Black when he retired best part of a decade ago.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i find NZ rugby to be hyper insular and conservative.
I'd add we constantly look to replace retired players with exact replicas rather than pick the best player for that position and let them develop their own style.
E.g. We still look for a Kaino replacement when he last played in Black when he retired best part of a decade ago.
Even more so with Nonu and Smith. By crikey the ABs miss those two.
-
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
Nope not when I think they deserve to be in the equation. Funny the guys that I talked up last year all played for the ABs (Love, Proctor and Lakai) so I’m not just talking out my arse.
I’m not saying Flanders will be an AB, I’m just pointing out that he could be another option to look at, if you read my comments I also said he needs to work on his physicality etc on defence and would need to first stay on the field for a good stretch of time to show what he’s made of.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
Nope not when I think they deserve to be in the equation. Funny the guys that I talked up last year all played for the ABs (Love, Proctor and Lakai) so I’m not just talking out my arse.
I’m not saying Flanders will be an AB, I’m just pointing out that he could be another option to look at, if you read my comments I also said he needs to work on his physicality etc on defence and would need to first stay on the field for a good stretch of time to show what he’s made of.
Steady, all three of these guys are far from automatic selections.
In saying that I do love your enthusiasm so don't ever change
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
Nope not when I think they deserve to be in the equation. Funny the guys that I talked up last year all played for the ABs (Love, Proctor and Lakai) so I’m not just talking out my arse.
I’m not saying Flanders will be an AB, I’m just pointing out that he could be another option to look at, if you read my comments I also said he needs to work on his physicality etc on defence and would need to first stay on the field for a good stretch of time to show what he’s made of.
Steady, all three of these guys are far from automatic selections.
In saying that I do love your enthusiasm so don't ever change
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
Nope not when I think they deserve to be in the equation. Funny the guys that I talked up last year all played for the ABs (Love, Proctor and Lakai) so I’m not just talking out my arse.
I’m not saying Flanders will be an AB, I’m just pointing out that he could be another option to look at, if you read my comments I also said he needs to work on his physicality etc on defence and would need to first stay on the field for a good stretch of time to show what he’s made of.
Steady, all three of these guys are far from automatic selections.
In saying that I do love your enthusiasm so don't ever change
Most of the ABs atm aren’t automatic selections but they are all in the frame for squad selection until they don’t get picked.
Going back to that Tosi selection last year, even I didn’t see that coming. I still personally think he’s got a lot to work on but the upside is quite obvious to see as he’s a large human and is fairly mobile for his size.
-
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
Nope not when I think they deserve to be in the equation. Funny the guys that I talked up last year all played for the ABs (Love, Proctor and Lakai) so I’m not just talking out my arse.
I’m not saying Flanders will be an AB, I’m just pointing out that he could be another option to look at, if you read my comments I also said he needs to work on his physicality etc on defence and would need to first stay on the field for a good stretch of time to show what he’s made of.
Steady, all three of these guys are far from automatic selections.
In saying that I do love your enthusiasm so don't ever change
Most of the ABs atm aren’t automatic selections but they are all in the frame for squad selection until they don’t get picked.
Going back to that Tosi selection last year, even I didn’t see that coming. I still personally think he’s got a lot to work on but the upside is quite obvious to see as he’s a large human and is fairly mobile for his size.
@Canes4life Agree on your second point.
On your first point - if everyone is fit:
Williams, Taylor, Lomax, Barrett, Vaaí, Not sure about 6, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie (but maybe Beaudy for reasons I don't really understand), Clarke, Jordie, Rieko, Reece, Jordan.
de Groot, Taukei'aho, Tosi, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Ratima, Tupaea, Barrett/Love
-
@Canes4life Agree on your second point.
On your first point - if everyone is fit:
Williams, Taylor, Lomax, Barrett, Vaaí, Not sure about 6, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie (but maybe Beaudy for reasons I don't really understand), Clarke, Jordie, Rieko, Reece, Jordan.
de Groot, Taukei'aho, Tosi, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Ratima, Tupaea, Barrett/Love
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Agree on your second point.
On your first point - if everyone is fit:
Williams, Taylor, Lomax, Barrett, Vaaí, Not sure about 6, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie (but maybe Beaudy for reasons I don't really understand), Clarke, Jordie, Rieko, Reece, Jordan.
de Groot, Taukei'aho, Tosi, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Ratima, Tupaea, Barrett/Love
Reiko and Blackadder. nah. Been there, done that. Let’s stop flogging a dead horse.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Agree on your second point.
On your first point - if everyone is fit:
Williams, Taylor, Lomax, Barrett, Vaaí, Not sure about 6, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie (but maybe Beaudy for reasons I don't really understand), Clarke, Jordie, Rieko, Reece, Jordan.
de Groot, Taukei'aho, Tosi, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Ratima, Tupaea, Barrett/Love
Reiko and Blackadder. nah. Been there, done that. Let’s stop flogging a dead horse.
@Canes4life Rieko has been our first choice centre for the past 4 years. ALB has been second choice and is broken. I'll be amazed if they don't pick Rieko even though he's not played particularly well in Super.
Coaches love Ethan.
Edit: All coaches love Ethan - not just the current ones.
-
And apparently it's a 35 man squad, so (and I reserve the right to change all this after the play-offs):
Norris, Aumua, Newell, Lord, Holland, Frizell (if available), Finau, Papali'i, Hotham, Proctor, Lam, Tangitau
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
And apparently it's a 35 man squad, so (and I reserve the right to change all this after the play-offs):
Norris, Aumua, Newell, Lord, Holland, Frizell (if available), Finau, Papali'i, Hotham, Proctor, Lam, Tangitau
Bell, Bower, Strange, CLW, McLeod and Fihaki want you to wash your mouth out.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Agree on your second point.
On your first point - if everyone is fit:
Williams, Taylor, Lomax, Barrett, Vaaí, Not sure about 6, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie (but maybe Beaudy for reasons I don't really understand), Clarke, Jordie, Rieko, Reece, Jordan.
de Groot, Taukei'aho, Tosi, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Ratima, Tupaea, Barrett/Love
Reiko and Blackadder. nah. Been there, done that. Let’s stop flogging a dead horse.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Reiko and Blackadder. nah. Been there, done that. Let’s stop flogging an injured
a deadhorse.FIFY
-
And apparently it's a 35 man squad, so (and I reserve the right to change all this after the play-offs):
Norris, Aumua, Newell, Lord, Holland, Frizell (if available), Finau, Papali'i, Hotham, Proctor, Lam, Tangitau
@Chris-B Chris I find it interesting Crusaders fans never really pump Christian Lio-Willie tires, he's been your most consistent player over the last few seasons in my opinion. I will never forget the Moana game he was rested, Moana absolutely ambushed the Crusaders that night
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
And apparently it's a 35 man squad, so (and I reserve the right to change all this after the play-offs):
Norris, Aumua, Newell, Lord, Holland, Frizell (if available), Finau, Papali'i, Hotham, Proctor, Lam, Tangitau
Bell, Bower, Strange, CLW, McLeod and Fihaki want you to wash your mouth out.
-
@Chris-B Chris I find it interesting Crusaders fans never really pump Christian Lio-Willie tires, he's been your most consistent player over the last few seasons in my opinion. I will never forget the Moana game he was rested, Moana absolutely ambushed the Crusaders that night
@Grooter He's not far away - made the AB's XV last year.
But, it's a tough row to hoe in the loose forwards.
I've picked six - Savea, Sititi, Blackadder, Frizell, Finau, Papalií
But, the you've got, Jacobson, Lakai, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Haig, Parker, Kirifi, Grace and whomever else you want to throw in that's been mentioned in the thread that I've forgotten. Frizz might not be back.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Devan Flanders could be in the conversation by the end of Super. Hopefully he comes back from his long-term injury with the same form he showed in 2024. He's the reason Howden went down to the Landers, he has the size for a test 6, and has the mobility, skillset and speed required at the next level. Would like to see more physicality in his game though, hopefully he can show that when he comes back.
Do you ever get sick of pumping Canes players?
