All Blacks 2025

nostrildamus

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:

Bolters XV

Norris
Moananu
Dyer
Holland
Beehre
Howden
Ķirifi
Parker
Roe
Reihana
Carter
Tavatavanawai
Tele'a
Tangitau
Kneepkens

More of an uncapped XV but still a good list.

that's an interesting side and quite a nippy backline.

tubbyj

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

@Victor-Meldrew
The biggest mistake by far over the last 5 years has been the ridiculous conservatism of the AB coaches. They ignored form and favoured the incumbents

I think this has to do with contracts and NZR finances and budget. If you have signed a player on a lucrative deal the reality is you have to still pay him if the coach does not select him and then find new money to pay the new player. When NZR is making losses a coach who did this to often would not be endearing himself.

family man

Aj lam I would add to that list

Nepia

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainline

I watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference point

Sotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).

Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.

So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.

Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it

You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80

Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.

What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.

Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.

2015 and 87 were anomalies.

We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.

I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.

Not to mention in the final we were street fighting with a man down (actually considering Ryan's bestie the Tongan twat's contribution we were actually two men down) for much of the game.

A Sotutu or a Sititi could help open up the space in that street fight - meanwhile EB will be as busy as ever running from ruck to ruck and making it in time to be effectual a 3rd of the time ....

reprobate

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainline

I watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference point

Sotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).

Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.

So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.

Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it

You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80

Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.

What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.

Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.

2015 and 87 were anomalies.

We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.

I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.

Not to mention in the final we were street fighting with a man down (actually considering Ryan's bestie the Tongan twat's contribution we were actually two men down) for much of the game.

A Sotutu or a Sititi could help open up the space in that street fight - meanwhile EB will be as busy as ever running from ruck to ruck and making it in time to be effectual a 3rd of the time ....

I agree on the first part, but when operating a man (or two) down, workrate like EB would be kinda handy too.

Nepia

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainline

I watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference point

Sotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).

Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.

So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.

Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it

You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80

Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.

What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.

Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.

2015 and 87 were anomalies.

We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.

I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.

Not to mention in the final we were street fighting with a man down (actually considering Ryan's bestie the Tongan twat's contribution we were actually two men down) for much of the game.

A Sotutu or a Sititi could help open up the space in that street fight - meanwhile EB will be as busy as ever running from ruck to ruck and making it in time to be effectual a 3rd of the time ....

I agree on the first part, but when operating a man (or two) down, workrate like EB would be kinda handy too.

Effectual workrate would be, EB hasn't always been effective in the past ....

Good Crusader bait there :fishing_pole:

canefan

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainline

I watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference point

Sotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).

Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.

So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.

Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it

You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80

Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.

What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.

Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.

2015 and 87 were anomalies.

We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.

I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.

Not to mention in the final we were street fighting with a man down (actually considering Ryan's bestie the Tongan twat's contribution we were actually two men down) for much of the game.

A Sotutu or a Sititi could help open up the space in that street fight - meanwhile EB will be as busy as ever running from ruck to ruck and making it in time to be effectual a 3rd of the time ....

I agree on the first part, but when operating a man (or two) down, workrate like EB would be kinda handy too.

Effectual workrate would be, EB hasn't always been effective in the past ....

Good Crusader bait there :fishing_pole:

I agree, work rate without impact, is futile

reprobate

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainline

I watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference point

Sotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).

Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.

So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.

Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it

You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80

Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.

What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.

Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.

2015 and 87 were anomalies.

We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.

I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.

Not to mention in the final we were street fighting with a man down (actually considering Ryan's bestie the Tongan twat's contribution we were actually two men down) for much of the game.

A Sotutu or a Sititi could help open up the space in that street fight - meanwhile EB will be as busy as ever running from ruck to ruck and making it in time to be effectual a 3rd of the time ....

I agree on the first part, but when operating a man (or two) down, workrate like EB would be kinda handy too.

Effectual workrate would be, EB hasn't always been effective in the past ....

Good Crusader bait there :fishing_pole:

Despite going off injured in about half the games he's played, I'd still be very, very surprised if EB has ever managed to have a game with 1 tackle made.

Frank

Anyone got players you really DON"T want to see selected?
For me - Christie and Havili.
And to a lesser extent - Beauden Barret

Landers92

@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:

Anyone got players you really DON"T want to see selected?
For me - Christie and Havili.
And to a lesser extent - Beauden Barret

Christie, Havili, Bower(would like to see a younger guy eased into that 3rd loose-head role). I’ve seen enough of Blackadder and won’t be mad if he’s left out(we all know he won’t be). Fihaki.

Nepia

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainline

I watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference point

Sotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).

Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.

So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.

Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it

You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80

Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.

What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.

Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.

2015 and 87 were anomalies.

We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.

I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.

Not to mention in the final we were street fighting with a man down (actually considering Ryan's bestie the Tongan twat's contribution we were actually two men down) for much of the game.

A Sotutu or a Sititi could help open up the space in that street fight - meanwhile EB will be as busy as ever running from ruck to ruck and making it in time to be effectual a 3rd of the time ....

I agree on the first part, but when operating a man (or two) down, workrate like EB would be kinda handy too.

Effectual workrate would be, EB hasn't always been effective in the past ....

Good Crusader bait there :fishing_pole:

Despite going off injured in about half the games he's played, I'd still be very, very surprised if EB has ever managed to have a game with 1 tackle made.

I wasn't saying that at all.

Nepia

@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:

Anyone got players you really DON"T want to see selected?
For me - Christie and Havili.
And to a lesser extent - Beauden Barret

I'm not a fan of Havilli but not sure I really don't want him selected. Same with Blackadder. There's lots of players I'd rather have selected over them though. So I guess that's don't want then, but not a strong don't want.

Reece.

Christie.

ploughboy

im hoping we pick two big 6s

Tim

Perenara leaving means we have a big upgrade at halfback over last year.

Canes4life

The Breakdown crew, in particular Steven Donald were talking up Finlay Christie last night.

Players we need to move on from:

Christie
Blackadder
need to shift Ioane back to the wing
I’m not sold on Bower
don’t mind Barrett in the squad, don’t want him the 23.
Havili

Who I’d like to see picked based on Super form

Parker
Kirifi
Holland
Norris
Lam
Fakatava because I think he brings real x-factor off the bench
Tangitau once fit.
Tupaea

Chris B.

@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:

Anyone got players you really DON"T want to see selected?
For me - Christie and Havili.
And to a lesser extent - Beauden Barret

Yes.

According to Google there are 155,568 registered rugby players in NZ.

There are approximately 155,520 of them that I don't want selected. Over the next several days, I shall list them all by name in alphabetical order.

Aaron Aardvark

Grooter

@Canes4life never quite realised how many of our milquetoast All Blacks are from Ta$man

Chris B.

@Grooter said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life never quite realised how many of our milquetoast All Blacks are from Ta$man

Simple advice for the other provinces - get better!

Razor's philosophy is, "When in doubt select from Ta$man. At a minimum they will be smarter"!

brodean

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainline

I watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference point

Sotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).

Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.

So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.

Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it

You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80

Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.

What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.

Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.

2015 and 87 were anomalies.

We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.

I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.

Yeah I would say Cane, Savea and Frizell showed their true colours as players when the going got tough in their most critical game. Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.

ACT Crusader

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

I’m not sold on Bower

Then you’re not watching close enough. Solid as a rock in the scrum and in the tight. Makes his tackles and cleans out when required. Does the small things at a high level. Not a big runner of the ball.

But they will likely have him on standby similar to last year and continue to invest in the future with that spot. And if it all goes pear shape or injuries strike they know they have a dependable player in waiting.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2025