All Blacks 2025
-
Anyone got players you really DON"T want to see selected?
For me - Christie and Havili.
And to a lesser extent - Beauden Barret@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone got players you really DON"T want to see selected?
For me - Christie and Havili.
And to a lesser extent - Beauden BarretYes.
According to Google there are 155,568 registered rugby players in NZ.
There are approximately 155,520 of them that I don't want selected. Over the next several days, I shall list them all by name in alphabetical order.
- Aaron Aardvark
-
The Breakdown crew, in particular Steven Donald were talking up Finlay Christie last night.
Players we need to move on from:
- Christie
- Blackadder
- need to shift Ioane back to the wing
- I’m not sold on Bower
- don’t mind Barrett in the squad, don’t want him the 23.
- Havili
Who I’d like to see picked based on Super form
- Parker
- Kirifi
- Holland
- Norris
- Lam
- Fakatava because I think he brings real x-factor off the bench
- Tangitau once fit.
- Tupaea
-
@Canes4life never quite realised how many of our milquetoast All Blacks are from Ta$man
@Grooter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life never quite realised how many of our milquetoast All Blacks are from Ta$man
Simple advice for the other provinces - get better!
Razor's philosophy is, "When in doubt select from Ta$man. At a minimum they will be smarter"!
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainlineI watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference pointSotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).
Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.
So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.
Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it
You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80
Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.
What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.
2015 and 87 were anomalies.
We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.
I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainlineI watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference pointSotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).
Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.
So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.
Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it
You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80
Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.
What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.
2015 and 87 were anomalies.
We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.
I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.
Yeah I would say Cane, Savea and Frizell showed their true colours as players when the going got tough in their most critical game. Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
-
The Breakdown crew, in particular Steven Donald were talking up Finlay Christie last night.
Players we need to move on from:
- Christie
- Blackadder
- need to shift Ioane back to the wing
- I’m not sold on Bower
- don’t mind Barrett in the squad, don’t want him the 23.
- Havili
Who I’d like to see picked based on Super form
- Parker
- Kirifi
- Holland
- Norris
- Lam
- Fakatava because I think he brings real x-factor off the bench
- Tangitau once fit.
- Tupaea
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
- I’m not sold on Bower
Then you’re not watching close enough. Solid as a rock in the scrum and in the tight. Makes his tackles and cleans out when required. Does the small things at a high level. Not a big runner of the ball.
But they will likely have him on standby similar to last year and continue to invest in the future with that spot. And if it all goes pear shape or injuries strike they know they have a dependable player in waiting.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
- I’m not sold on Bower
Then you’re not watching close enough. Solid as a rock in the scrum and in the tight. Makes his tackles and cleans out when required. Does the small things at a high level. Not a big runner of the ball.
But they will likely have him on standby similar to last year and continue to invest in the future with that spot. And if it all goes pear shape or injuries strike they know they have a dependable player in waiting.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
- I’m not sold on Bower
Then you’re not watching close enough. Solid as a rock in the scrum and in the tight. Makes his tackles and cleans out when required. Does the small things at a high level. Not a big runner of the ball.
But they will likely have him on standby similar to last year and continue to invest in the future with that spot. And if it all goes pear shape or injuries strike they know they have a dependable player in waiting.
Bower has been a defensive liability at test level.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
- I’m not sold on Bower
Then you’re not watching close enough. Solid as a rock in the scrum and in the tight. Makes his tackles and cleans out when required. Does the small things at a high level. Not a big runner of the ball.
But they will likely have him on standby similar to last year and continue to invest in the future with that spot. And if it all goes pear shape or injuries strike they know they have a dependable player in waiting.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
- I’m not sold on Bower
Then you’re not watching close enough. Solid as a rock in the scrum and in the tight. Makes his tackles and cleans out when required. Does the small things at a high level. Not a big runner of the ball.
But they will likely have him on standby similar to last year and continue to invest in the future with that spot. And if it all goes pear shape or injuries strike they know they have a dependable player in waiting.
I agree with that. Not our first choice, but still handy to have when injuries hit, and I never rated him at all when I first saw him and couldn't believe he got called up at the time in 2020, but he's grown on me and is a solid player.
Maybe the loosehead version of Angus Ta’avao?
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainlineI watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference pointSotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).
Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.
So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.
Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it
You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80
Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.
What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.
2015 and 87 were anomalies.
We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.
I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.
Yeah I would say Cane, Savea and Frizell showed their true colours as players when the going got tough in their most critical game. Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Yeah I would say Cane, Savea and Frizell showed their true colours as players when the going got tough in their most critical game. Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
I suspect Cane had given his all against Ireland. That was a big effort.
-
@Grooter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life never quite realised how many of our milquetoast All Blacks are from Ta$man
Simple advice for the other provinces - get better!
Razor's philosophy is, "When in doubt select from Ta$man. At a minimum they will be smarter"!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life never quite realised how many of our milquetoast All Blacks are from Ta$man
Simple advice for the other provinces - get better!
Razor's philosophy is, "When in doubt select from Ta$man. At a minimum they will be smarter"!
My province is actually doing quite well thank you very much. Better than yours of late.
-
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone got players you really DON"T want to see selected?
For me - Christie and Havili.
And to a lesser extent - Beauden BarretYes.
According to Google there are 155,568 registered rugby players in NZ.
There are approximately 155,520 of them that I don't want selected. Over the next several days, I shall list them all by name in alphabetical order.
- Aaron Aardvark
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainlineI watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference pointSotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).
Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.
So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.
Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it
You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80
Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.
What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.
2015 and 87 were anomalies.
We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.
I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.
Yeah I would say Cane, Savea and Frizell showed their true colours as players when the going got tough in their most critical game. Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life never quite realised how many of our milquetoast All Blacks are from Ta$man
Simple advice for the other provinces - get better!
Razor's philosophy is, "When in doubt select from Ta$man. At a minimum they will be smarter"!
My province is actually doing quite well thank you very much. Better than yours of late.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
My province is actually doing quite well thank you very much. Better than yours of late.
I don't know, if below is accurate:
R9 Canes beaten by Crusaders 31-24
R10 Crusaders beat Blues 25-22; Canes draw 17-17 with Force
R11 Crusaders smash Landers 43-10; Canes beat Brumbies 35-29
R12 Canes wallop Chiefs 35-17
R13 Chiefs smash Crusaders after latter's bye 35-19; Canes rest
R14 Canes sneak past Highlanders 24-20; Crusaders wallop Tahs 48-33
R15 Crusaders tiptoe past Highlanders 15-12; Canes likewise against Reds 31-27
R16 Crusaders armwrestle Brumbies 33-31; Canes destroy Moana 64-12I don't know how far back you want to go but it looks more to me that the Crusaders are building against stronger sides and apart from an exhausted Moana and your glorious R12, the Canes are chugging along ok mostly, but a bit of swings and roundabouts.
-
Mods feel free to delete or move the above. I was just curious how super form might be influencing opinions on likely ABs. To me the Blues are arguablly improving if erratic, but hard to credit it to specific players returning (Sotutu maybe? Tele'a returning after 3 week ban?)
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
My province is actually doing quite well thank you very much. Better than yours of late.
I don't know, if below is accurate:
R9 Canes beaten by Crusaders 31-24
R10 Crusaders beat Blues 25-22; Canes draw 17-17 with Force
R11 Crusaders smash Landers 43-10; Canes beat Brumbies 35-29
R12 Canes wallop Chiefs 35-17
R13 Chiefs smash Crusaders after latter's bye 35-19; Canes rest
R14 Canes sneak past Highlanders 24-20; Crusaders wallop Tahs 48-33
R15 Crusaders tiptoe past Highlanders 15-12; Canes likewise against Reds 31-27
R16 Crusaders armwrestle Brumbies 33-31; Canes destroy Moana 64-12I don't know how far back you want to go but it looks more to me that the Crusaders are building against stronger sides and apart from an exhausted Moana and your glorious R12, the Canes are chugging along ok mostly, but a bit of swings and roundabouts.
@nostrildamus that well known province, Canes.
-
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
My province is actually doing quite well thank you very much. Better than yours of late.
I don't know, if below is accurate:
R9 Canes beaten by Crusaders 31-24
R10 Crusaders beat Blues 25-22; Canes draw 17-17 with Force
R11 Crusaders smash Landers 43-10; Canes beat Brumbies 35-29
R12 Canes wallop Chiefs 35-17
R13 Chiefs smash Crusaders after latter's bye 35-19; Canes rest
R14 Canes sneak past Highlanders 24-20; Crusaders wallop Tahs 48-33
R15 Crusaders tiptoe past Highlanders 15-12; Canes likewise against Reds 31-27
R16 Crusaders armwrestle Brumbies 33-31; Canes destroy Moana 64-12I don't know how far back you want to go but it looks more to me that the Crusaders are building against stronger sides and apart from an exhausted Moana and your glorious R12, the Canes are chugging along ok mostly, but a bit of swings and roundabouts.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
My province is actually doing quite well thank you very much. Better than yours of late.
I don't know, if below is accurate:
R9 Canes beaten by Crusaders 31-24
R10 Crusaders beat Blues 25-22; Canes draw 17-17 with Force
R11 Crusaders smash Landers 43-10; Canes beat Brumbies 35-29
R12 Canes wallop Chiefs 35-17
R13 Chiefs smash Crusaders after latter's bye 35-19; Canes rest
R14 Canes sneak past Highlanders 24-20; Crusaders wallop Tahs 48-33
R15 Crusaders tiptoe past Highlanders 15-12; Canes likewise against Reds 31-27
R16 Crusaders armwrestle Brumbies 33-31; Canes destroy Moana 64-12I don't know how far back you want to go but it looks more to me that the Crusaders are building against stronger sides and apart from an exhausted Moana and your glorious R12, the Canes are chugging along ok mostly, but a bit of swings and roundabouts.
Mate, I’m talking about Wellington.
But will respond to the above nevertheless. I think you are severely underplaying both of the Canes wins against the Brumbies and Reds away. Those were two very good performances.
The Landers game is a hard one to evaluate because half the team had COVID heading into that game and they still won. When you add in the Chiefs and Moana floggings, the Canes are definitely coming into the playoffs in more form than the Crusaders.
In saying that, playoffs is a different ball game, everything gets tougher, the conditions get worse and games are won by the barest of margins. Anything can happen and I’m sure there will be plenty of drama still to come in what has been a great season.
-
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
He's the first player to be red carded in an RWC final because he failed to keep his discipline.
