All Blacks 2025
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https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-qualifying-finals/
Looking at the match pack stats for loose forwards this season:
Defenders Beaten ( carries ) :
36 Lio-Willie (143)
22 Sotutu (131)
23 Kirifi (125)
18 Lakai (168)
16 Papali'i (56)
15 Iose (74)
10 Finau (79)
9 Parker (70)
2 Blackadder (65)Defenders Beaten per carry:
0.28 Papali'i
0.25 Lio-Willie
0.2 Iose
0.18 Kirifi
0.17 Sotutu
0.13 Finau
0.13 Parker
0.11 Lakai
0.03 Blackadder( Sititi not in the match pack)
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Why wouldn't a Sititi-Savea-Sotutu back row work at Test level?
Coz Ryan and Razor
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@canefan Short memories. This time last year the same people were bitching and moaning about Sititi being picked over Sotutu, how did that turn out? I think i will back the AB coaches over silverfern couch selectors...
@Wapiti said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan Short memories. This time last year the same people were bitching and moaning about Sititi being picked over Sotutu, how did that turn out? I think i will back the AB coaches over silverfern couch selectors...
What you are not addressing is that it doesn't have to be Sotutu vs Sititi.
You can pick both in the squad.
Instead we end up with these versatile/hybrid loosies that leave you wanting more.
At loosie we have Sititi, Savea and then a whole bunch of just dudes.
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@Wapiti said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan Short memories. This time last year the same people were bitching and moaning about Sititi being picked over Sotutu, how did that turn out? I think i will back the AB coaches over silverfern couch selectors...
What you are not addressing is that it doesn't have to be Sotutu vs Sititi.
You can pick both in the squad.
Instead we end up with these versatile/hybrid loosies that leave you wanting more.
At loosie we have Sititi, Savea and then a whole bunch of just dudes.
@KiwiMurph dudes that are all much of a muchness , and that don't even get to play. Surely it's better to pick different horses for courses?
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@canefan Short memories. This time last year the same people were bitching and moaning about Sititi being picked over Sotutu, how did that turn out? I think i will back the AB coaches over silverfern couch selectors...
@Wapiti said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan Short memories. This time last year the same people were bitching and moaning about Sititi being picked over Sotutu, how did that turn out? I think i will back the AB coaches over silverfern couch selectors...
Sotutu never got a chance to show his wares for the ABs though did he?
Sotutu was a better 8 than both Parker and Sititi last night.
It wasn't actually a great year for the ABs last year and while Sititi had some good games we didn't actually win against the South Africa and France who have the tougher packs compared to the rest.
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Let's just hope the weight they put on finals footy last year applies this year.
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I estimate the current mood on here for AB success in 2025 as the highest it's been for 6-8 years.
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Savea 7 Sititi 8 DMac locked in at 10 Proctor 13 and Rieko wing would all help the cause
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@canefan Short memories. This time last year the same people were bitching and moaning about Sititi being picked over Sotutu, how did that turn out? I think i will back the AB coaches over silverfern couch selectors...
@Wapiti said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan Short memories. This time last year the same people were bitching and moaning about Sititi being picked over Sotutu, how did that turn out? I think i will back the AB coaches over silverfern couch selectors...
I think people had every right to be up in arms about Sotutu's non selection, and yes, they got it right with Sititi.
Also, this is a forum lol. People on Here are gonna express their opinions rightly or wrongly. A lot of the time selectors get it wrong too.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Rieko can cover wing....
Rieko is a winger
Exactly
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They picked Sititi at 6 and could have played Savea at 7 (and Sotutu at 8). Where did Savea mostly play for Moana this year? Where he had a stormer?
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https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-qualifying-finals/
Looking at the match pack stats for loose forwards this season:
Defenders Beaten ( carries ) :
36 Lio-Willie (143)
22 Sotutu (131)
23 Kirifi (125)
18 Lakai (168)
16 Papali'i (56)
15 Iose (74)
10 Finau (79)
9 Parker (70)
2 Blackadder (65)Defenders Beaten per carry:
0.28 Papali'i
0.25 Lio-Willie
0.2 Iose
0.18 Kirifi
0.17 Sotutu
0.13 Finau
0.13 Parker
0.11 Lakai
0.03 Blackadder( Sititi not in the match pack)
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-qualifying-finals/
Looking at the match pack stats for loose forwards this season:
Defenders Beaten ( carries ) :
36 Lio-Willie (143)
22 Sotutu (131)
23 Kirifi (125)
18 Lakai (168)
16 Papali'i (56)
15 Iose (74)
10 Finau (79)
9 Parker (70)
2 Blackadder (65)Defenders Beaten per carry:
0.28 Papali'i
0.25 Lio-Willie
0.2 Iose
0.18 Kirifi
0.17 Sotutu
0.13 Finau
0.13 Parker
0.11 Lakai
0.03 Blackadder( Sititi not in the match pack)
I like Dalton, and agree he's probably the best ruck forward in NZ (and also a very accurate defender) - but he is not a great carrier, or support runner. He's not bad, but having him at the top of a carrying stat as if he's a gun is misleading, and there's a good reason the Blues use him where his strengths lie.
His problem re AB selection isn't that though in my opinion - it's that he's not that big, not an outstanding lineout forward, and neither are Savea, Sititi and Barrett. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-qualifying-finals/
Looking at the match pack stats for loose forwards this season:
Defenders Beaten ( carries ) :
36 Lio-Willie (143)
22 Sotutu (131)
23 Kirifi (125)
18 Lakai (168)
16 Papali'i (56)
15 Iose (74)
10 Finau (79)
9 Parker (70)
2 Blackadder (65)Defenders Beaten per carry:
0.28 Papali'i
0.25 Lio-Willie
0.2 Iose
0.18 Kirifi
0.17 Sotutu
0.13 Finau
0.13 Parker
0.11 Lakai
0.03 Blackadder( Sititi not in the match pack)
I like Dalton, and agree he's probably the best ruck forward in NZ (and also a very accurate defender) - but he is not a great carrier, or support runner. He's not bad, but having him at the top of a carrying stat as if he's a gun is misleading, and there's a good reason the Blues use him where his strengths lie.
His problem re AB selection isn't that though in my opinion - it's that he's not that big, not an outstanding lineout forward, and neither are Savea, Sititi and Barrett.@reprobate Barrett is a lock. You would think he was very good at his core job. Otherwise he's just another middling player who can do some good things but isn't a master of the most important ones
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-qualifying-finals/
Looking at the match pack stats for loose forwards this season:
Defenders Beaten ( carries ) :
36 Lio-Willie (143)
22 Sotutu (131)
23 Kirifi (125)
18 Lakai (168)
16 Papali'i (56)
15 Iose (74)
10 Finau (79)
9 Parker (70)
2 Blackadder (65)Defenders Beaten per carry:
0.28 Papali'i
0.25 Lio-Willie
0.2 Iose
0.18 Kirifi
0.17 Sotutu
0.13 Finau
0.13 Parker
0.11 Lakai
0.03 Blackadder( Sititi not in the match pack)
I like Dalton, and agree he's probably the best ruck forward in NZ (and also a very accurate defender) - but he is not a great carrier, or support runner. He's not bad, but having him at the top of a carrying stat as if he's a gun is misleading, and there's a good reason the Blues use him where his strengths lie.
His problem re AB selection isn't that though in my opinion - it's that he's not that big, not an outstanding lineout forward, and neither are Savea, Sititi and Barrett.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-qualifying-finals/
Looking at the match pack stats for loose forwards this season:
Defenders Beaten ( carries ) :
36 Lio-Willie (143)
22 Sotutu (131)
23 Kirifi (125)
18 Lakai (168)
16 Papali'i (56)
15 Iose (74)
10 Finau (79)
9 Parker (70)
2 Blackadder (65)Defenders Beaten per carry:
0.28 Papali'i
0.25 Lio-Willie
0.2 Iose
0.18 Kirifi
0.17 Sotutu
0.13 Finau
0.13 Parker
0.11 Lakai
0.03 Blackadder( Sititi not in the match pack)
I like Dalton, and agree he's probably the best ruck forward in NZ (and also a very accurate defender) - but he is not a great carrier, or support runner. He's not bad, but having him at the top of a carrying stat as if he's a gun is misleading, and there's a good reason the Blues use him where his strengths lie.
His problem re AB selection isn't that though in my opinion - it's that he's not that big, not an outstanding lineout forward, and neither are Savea, Sititi and Barrett.I’m sure he was when he came on the scene or did I imagine that ?
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Why wouldn't a Sititi-Savea-Sotutu back row work at Test level?
At least give it a go ffs
I worry about our lineout.
I know Sotutu isn't terrible and Sititi can be used.
If we have Vaii's workrate at lock that's a good thing, right? But, you add Barrett as the other lock and suddenly we have five hybrids from 4-7.Sotutu won the most lineouts of all NZ players last year in SR. The Blues didn't use him as much this year but he is an excellent lineout operator.
Long arms and good aerial skills.
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Long arms and good aerial skills.
Reads like a CV for a satellite dish installer.
I'd like to see Sotutu given another chance, but just can't see it with the current coaching set-up.. Think it's going to be a Savea/Sititi/Blackadder combination, though maybe an injury might open things up for him.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Long arms and good aerial skills.
Reads like a CV for a satellite dish installer.
I'd like to see Sotutu given another chance, but just can't see it with the current coaching set-up.. Think it's going to be a Savea/Sititi/Blackadder combination, though maybe an injury might open things up for him.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Long arms and good aerial skills.
> Reads like a CV for a satellite dish installer.
I'd like to see Sotutu given another chance, but just can't see it with the current coaching set-up.. Think it's going to be a Savea/Sititi/Blackadder combination, though maybe an injury might open things up for him.
I just want it to be known that @sparky liked this
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
https://super.rugby/superrugby/match-centre/match-packs/2025-qualifying-finals/
Looking at the match pack stats for loose forwards this season:
Defenders Beaten ( carries ) :
36 Lio-Willie (143)
22 Sotutu (131)
23 Kirifi (125)
18 Lakai (168)
16 Papali'i (56)
15 Iose (74)
10 Finau (79)
9 Parker (70)
2 Blackadder (65)Defenders Beaten per carry:
0.28 Papali'i
0.25 Lio-Willie
0.2 Iose
0.18 Kirifi
0.17 Sotutu
0.13 Finau
0.13 Parker
0.11 Lakai
0.03 Blackadder( Sititi not in the match pack)
I like Dalton, and agree he's probably the best ruck forward in NZ (and also a very accurate defender) - but he is not a great carrier, or support runner. He's not bad, but having him at the top of a carrying stat as if he's a gun is misleading, and there's a good reason the Blues use him where his strengths lie.
His problem re AB selection isn't that though in my opinion - it's that he's not that big, not an outstanding lineout forward, and neither are Savea, Sititi and Barrett.He still has speed and pace off the mark as you can see in this try for Counties he scores from half way in 2024. There's very few loose forwards who score this try from halfway.
Watch from 6:40
Example of good support play this year:
It's just not how the Blues use Papali'i and I think you underestimate his ability as a carrier.
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I think looking at last season as a guide to what we do this season in the loose forwards is a little misleading when the AB coaches were committed to playing Cane at openiside in his final year when he was fit.
They resorted to type when he wasn’t fit and played the guy that had backed him up the last couple of years - Papali’i. I don’t really count the Fiji test where there were a number of changes to regular starters eg Newell at tighthead, Aumua at hooker, Jacobsen at 6, Blackadder at 7, Ratima at 9, Proctor at 13.
So now that Cane is retired do they now officially hand the baton over to Dalton as the permanent openside, thus keeping Savea at no8.
Either it’s a renewing of sorts or we keep trying to find a blindside that fits with Dalton and Savea.
Sititi got plenty of attention. Last season and rightly so because he made plays. But second seasons have been known to wreak havoc with young players so time will tell.
