All Blacks 2025
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I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
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It just reeks of desperation. We go through a tough spell and our HEAD COACH starts tying himself & NZR in knots trying to get a player back who obviously wasnt invested enough in the black jersey to stick around and build for another world cup. He gets to go off and have fun time in Japan, we toil away, take a few tough losses and develop some young players (albeit not at 10, which HAS to be intentional). And he gets to swoop back in just before the world cup and be treated as some savior? If he comes back and wins us a world cup, yup fair enough thats some story, but in the case this backfires, it has to be one of the weakest displays of tunnel vision and blind faith NZ rugby has ever seen, Richie has razor and the union wrapped around his little finger
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What Razor should have done is kept quiet all along and had NZR negotiating for his return, if he hadn't made a song and dance about wanting him back or.being able to select him while overseas, this would be the run of the mill former AB returning to NZ...then if proven good enough, selected.
Instead, it looks like Razor has.pursued RM, encumbants BB and DM both no doubt thinking wtf, then as per the saders thread, Reihana and Kemara guide the saders to a title but are they also jersey warming, or is Penney likely to be his own man if he's still there in 2027 and play whoever he thinks is best for the saders?
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Rare feeling as an AB fan where we've thrown big money at a player as a marquee signing (vs. just re-signing someone already in NZ)
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We did something similar with Sonny Bill Williams which turned out alright, even if the circus around him was nauseating at times.
We did it again with Roger Tuisava-Sheck who never really seemed at home in Rugby.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
We did something similar with Sonny Bill Williams which turned out alright, even if the circus around him was nauseating at times.
We did it again with Roger Tuisava-Sheck who never really seemed at home in Rugby.
SBW was a crazy athlete - if he got the positioning and skills he was going to succeed in some format.
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Damian shouldn’t have turned down that R360 deal
@zedsdeadbaby R360 is a bit of an unknown quanity, still very much an evolving story at the moment. How it fits into test rugby is not that clear.
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the thing that worry's me with this RM deal is what it could lead to in future.
Done once will more want it?
Will more now be interested in R360
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
I don't blame the players they need to earn a living and for most rugby is the only thing they can do well
Win or lose next world cup this will be robertsons legacy -
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
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The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading
the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
And our goal kicking is still fairly terrible, particularly when under pressure (Dmac…) so that problem hasn’t been fixed in RMs absence
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The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
Can you not use the same logic for the persistence of Barrett and Dmac at 10 even though they fairly produce the goods?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
Can you not use the same logic for the persistence of Barrett and Dmac at 10 even though they fairly produce the goods?
@jimmyb absolutely, as has been spoken about alot on here
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
Indeed. But at least Jordie stayed....
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the thing that worry's me with this RM deal is what it could lead to in future.
Done once will more want it?
Will more now be interested in R360
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
I don't blame the players they need to earn a living and for most rugby is the only thing they can do well
Win or lose next world cup this will be robertsons legacy@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
Only if you look at certain individuals. Which has always been the case.
