All Blacks 2025
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Damian shouldn’t have turned down that R360 deal
@zedsdeadbaby R360 is a bit of an unknown quanity, still very much an evolving story at the moment. How it fits into test rugby is not that clear.
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the thing that worry's me with this RM deal is what it could lead to in future.
Done once will more want it?
Will more now be interested in R360
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
I don't blame the players they need to earn a living and for most rugby is the only thing they can do well
Win or lose next world cup this will be robertsons legacy -
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
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The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading
the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
And our goal kicking is still fairly terrible, particularly when under pressure (Dmac…) so that problem hasn’t been fixed in RMs absence
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The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
Can you not use the same logic for the persistence of Barrett and Dmac at 10 even though they fairly produce the goods?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
The biggest issue i see if RM is, as expected in Razors RWC plans, he comes back, pushes someone out, then gets multiple chances to wear the jersey, isn't upto it, then he has taken someone else's opportunity for further development, or, as with the likes of Plummer, they bail seeing no pathway.
Can you not use the same logic for the persistence of Barrett and Dmac at 10 even though they fairly produce the goods?
@jimmyb absolutely, as has been spoken about alot on here
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
Indeed. But at least Jordie stayed....
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the thing that worry's me with this RM deal is what it could lead to in future.
Done once will more want it?
Will more now be interested in R360
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
I don't blame the players they need to earn a living and for most rugby is the only thing they can do well
Win or lose next world cup this will be robertsons legacy@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
Only if you look at certain individuals. Which has always been the case.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
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@jimmyb Defeat is never about one individual, but he was poor on both occasions and was outplayed by his opposing 10s. He's very good behind a dominant pack, but under pressure and on the biggest stage, he doesn't step up.
@sparky and right or wrong key positions take more reasonability for a loss, captain and game drivers have the reasonability to adapt to the opposition and find a way to win
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
Only if you look at certain individuals. Which has always been the case.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
Only if you look at certain individuals. Which has always been the case.
thats fair but to me it seems to be getting less as money elsewhere gets more
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what concerns me more is that, in 2027, the age of 60% of the starting 10s in Super Rugby will be 36, 32 and 31. They will also have pretty much every cap at 10 for the past three world cup cycles.
They will also all leave NZ rugby at the end of that year.
If this was a club side the list manager would get fired.
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what concerns me more is that, in 2027, the age of 60% of the starting 10s in Super Rugby will be 36, 32 and 31. They will also have pretty much every cap at 10 for the past three world cup cycles.
They will also all leave NZ rugby at the end of that year.
If this was a club side the list manager would get fired.
@mariner4life yep, ideally, only 1 of BB, Dmac or RM would be in the 2027 RWC because we have other more suitable options, but seems we aren't even interested in developing them, our eggs are in the BB, Dmac, RM basket, and I wouldn't be surprised if Dmac or BB bails before 2027 anyway (and as it would seem the coaches prefer BB, it is more likely to be Dmac)
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
How about one who kicked all his goals in 2023?
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Love and Reihana will have to content themselves with building their case for AB 10 ready for post RWC27 I guess
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Love and Reihana will have to content themselves with building their case for AB 10 ready for post RWC27 I guess
Or joining DMac on the plane
