All Blacks 2025
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
If he makes his last kick we win the trophy....
Same with Jordie
Indeed. But at least Jordie stayed....
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the thing that worry's me with this RM deal is what it could lead to in future.
Done once will more want it?
Will more now be interested in R360
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
I don't blame the players they need to earn a living and for most rugby is the only thing they can do well
Win or lose next world cup this will be robertsons legacy@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
Only if you look at certain individuals. Which has always been the case.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
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@jimmyb Defeat is never about one individual, but he was poor on both occasions and was outplayed by his opposing 10s. He's very good behind a dominant pack, but under pressure and on the biggest stage, he doesn't step up.
@sparky and right or wrong key positions take more reasonability for a loss, captain and game drivers have the reasonability to adapt to the opposition and find a way to win
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
Only if you look at certain individuals. Which has always been the case.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
The jersey doesn't have the pull it used to
Only if you look at certain individuals. Which has always been the case.
thats fair but to me it seems to be getting less as money elsewhere gets more
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what concerns me more is that, in 2027, the age of 60% of the starting 10s in Super Rugby will be 36, 32 and 31. They will also have pretty much every cap at 10 for the past three world cup cycles.
They will also all leave NZ rugby at the end of that year.
If this was a club side the list manager would get fired.
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what concerns me more is that, in 2027, the age of 60% of the starting 10s in Super Rugby will be 36, 32 and 31. They will also have pretty much every cap at 10 for the past three world cup cycles.
They will also all leave NZ rugby at the end of that year.
If this was a club side the list manager would get fired.
@mariner4life yep, ideally, only 1 of BB, Dmac or RM would be in the 2027 RWC because we have other more suitable options, but seems we aren't even interested in developing them, our eggs are in the BB, Dmac, RM basket, and I wouldn't be surprised if Dmac or BB bails before 2027 anyway (and as it would seem the coaches prefer BB, it is more likely to be Dmac)
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm far from delighted about this deal.
Watching two World Cup failures where we built the team around Richie Mo'unga was depressing enough. His limitations were ruthlessly exposed by England in Yokohama in 2019 and the Springboks in Paris in 2023. I doubt he's learned to manage limited time on the ball against an extremely organised rushed defence since.
I do not wish to see us lose a third World Cup because of Richie Mo'unga's average game management skills.
If he really is our best First Five and worth all the money NZR is throwing at him, then why aren't we making him available for the five-week tour of South Africa next year?
Mo’unga is pretty low on the list of reasons for the losses in 2019 and 2023. Neither result would have been different with a different first five leading the team. Reality is we’re not winning 2027 with Dmac or Beuden at first five, so what is the alternative?
How about one who kicked all his goals in 2023?
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Love and Reihana will have to content themselves with building their case for AB 10 ready for post RWC27 I guess
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Love and Reihana will have to content themselves with building their case for AB 10 ready for post RWC27 I guess
Or joining DMac on the plane
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Love and Reihana will have to content themselves with building their case for AB 10 ready for post RWC27 I guess
Or joining DMac on the plane
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Love and Reihana will have to content themselves with building their case for AB 10 ready for post RWC27 I guess
Or joining DMac on the plane
That will be a crime
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
Rancid.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back.....or at least it used to be.
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So you fuck off to fill your wallet while the rest of the loyal lads put their shoulders to the wheel.
We get touched up by the Springboks on the regular, lose to Argentina again and could quite possibly lose the Eden park record in your absence.
You then swan in just before a World Cup to feather your own nest, and no sooner have you arrived we need to succession plan for your imminent exit again post tournament.
Nah fuck off.
The Allblacks should not be a half way house for contractors at a loose end.
We are turning into the Dubai of Rugby.
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what concerns me more is that, in 2027, the age of 60% of the starting 10s in Super Rugby will be 36, 32 and 31. They will also have pretty much every cap at 10 for the past three world cup cycles.
They will also all leave NZ rugby at the end of that year.
If this was a club side the list manager would get fired.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
what concerns me more is that, in 2027, the age of 60% of the starting 10s in Super Rugby will be 36, 32 and 31. They will also have pretty much every cap at 10 for the past three world cup cycles.
They will also all leave NZ rugby at the end of that year.
If this was a club side the list manager would get fired.
His shadow will also be cast over this years NPC and next years Super Rugby.
We already have our bolter......currently playing in Japan.
Whats the point.
The whole affair is really deflating.
So whats the trend now?
Establish yourself early doors if you can, get your Allblack cap and then dip your toe in and out every World Cup cycle?
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
We did something similar with Sonny Bill Williams which turned out alright, even if the circus around him was nauseating at times.
We did it again with Roger Tuisava-Sheck who never really seemed at home in Rugby.
SBW was a crazy athlete - if he got the positioning and skills he was going to succeed in some format.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
We did something similar with Sonny Bill Williams which turned out alright, even if the circus around him was nauseating at times.
We did it again with Roger Tuisava-Sheck who never really seemed at home in Rugby.
SBW was a crazy athlete - if he got the positioning and skills he was going to succeed in some format.
Was he really ? Great beach muscles but was he noticably faster, fitter, stronger than others ?
Ma’a Nonu blasted through tackles better than he did, J Savea, R Ioane etc were quicker.
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What a terrible precedent for a very average player. I wouldn't even have wanted a mercenary deal like this for Carter, and Ritchie is no Dan Carter.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
What a terrible precedent for a very average player. I wouldn't even have wanted a mercenary deal like this for Carter, and Ritchie is no Dan Carter.
The disparity between the headlines Mounga generates and his playing ability is quite immense
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Don't love what this signing signals to other 10s but don't think it's a bad thing that Mo'unga is returning. If he comes back and he's the best 10 option then he should be selected - no different to any other player coming back.
The issue lies with Robertson, especially if he selects Mo'unga when he's not performed.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
We did something similar with Sonny Bill Williams which turned out alright, even if the circus around him was nauseating at times.
We did it again with Roger Tuisava-Sheck who never really seemed at home in Rugby.
SBW was a crazy athlete - if he got the positioning and skills he was going to succeed in some format.
Was he really ? Great beach muscles but was he noticably faster, fitter, stronger than others ?
Ma’a Nonu blasted through tackles better than he did, J Savea, R Ioane etc were quicker.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
We did something similar with Sonny Bill Williams which turned out alright, even if the circus around him was nauseating at times.
We did it again with Roger Tuisava-Sheck who never really seemed at home in Rugby.
SBW was a crazy athlete - if he got the positioning and skills he was going to succeed in some format.
Was he really ? Great beach muscles but was he noticably faster, fitter, stronger than others ?
Ma’a Nonu blasted through tackles better than he did, J Savea, R Ioane etc were quicker.
If you want to compare him to our greatest 12, a wing who had a peak as high as any in world rugby and the best athlete in the team, then go for it. It may not make the point you are trying to make though.
He was a pretty remarkable dude, carried a big frame with him and some serious muscle.
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Don't love what this signing signals to other 10s but don't think it's a bad thing that Mo'unga is returning. If he comes back and he's the best 10 option then he should be selected - no different to any other player coming back.
The issue lies with Robertson, especially if he selects Mo'unga when he's not performed.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Don't love what this signing signals to other 10s but don't think it's a bad thing that Mo'unga is returning. If he comes back and he's the best 10 option then he should be selected - no different to any other player coming back.
The issue lies with Robertson, especially if he selects Mo'unga when he's not performed.
Well yes if he performs and proves he is a better option than BB or D Mac there shouldn’t be a problem,considering BB will be 36 at WC time he maybe well past it, he is not far off that now.
2 more years maybe we will need another experienced option.
The problem is D Mac will be 33 come 2028.
Barrett 37 RM 34.
We will need some serious new blood in 2028
Probably at least 2 new caps blooded at the same time.
