All Blacks 2025
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All this talk of Razor needing international experience is bollocks, I think he's.just not upto it as an International coach, nor his team, although there is.an argument if he was upto it, hed bring them with him.
Don't get me.wrong, he is an outstanding coach for the grind of npc or super rugby, but that is where you have access to your group of players all the time.
International is different, we have the July tours for 4 weeks, then TRC for 6-8 weeks with breaks where players come and go, then eoyt.
I think he hasn't shown he can adapt to these shorter windows with his players.
Obviously we see his assistants as poor as well, and sans Ryan, who did look.the goods until the last month, the best he could.do is cut.them loose, but he won't and.2ndly who would step in anyway.
Sadly, the demise of a once great rugby nation started before 2019, accelerated under Foster before appearing to slow in 2023, but the fall has continued.
I honestly don't see them arresting this fall, watch super and npc and no one seems to want to address the issues evident in our game at all levels.
Of the 8 tests we have played this year, I have watched 2 in thier entirety, the losses to Argentina and the Boks, all the others I've come in at half time or not watched at all.
I want to care, and still care, but nothing like I used to where Mrs TR would know if we lost by my mood, now she barely knows a game is on.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
All this talk of Razor needing international experience is bollocks, I think he's.just not upto it as an International coach, nor his team, although there is.an argument if he was upto it, hed bring them with him.
Don't get me.wrong, he is an outstanding coach for the grind of npc or super rugby, but that is where you have access to your group of players all the time.
International is different, we have the July tours for 4 weeks, then TRC for 6-8 weeks with breaks where players come and go, then eoyt.
I think he hasn't shown he can adapt to these shorter windows with his players.
Obviously we see his assistants as poor as well, and sans Ryan, who did look.the goods until the last month, the best he could.do is cut.them loose, but he won't and.2ndly who would step in anyway.
Sadly, the demise of a once great rugby nation started before 2019, accelerated under Foster before appearing to slow in 2023, but the fall has continued.
I honestly don't see them arresting this fall, watch super and npc and no one seems to want to address the issues evident in our game at all levels.
Of the 8 tests we have played this year, I have watched 2 in thier entirety, the losses to Argentina and the Boks, all the others I've come in at half time or not watched at all.
I want to care, and still care, but nothing like I used to where Mrs TR would know if we lost by my mood, now she barely knows a game is on.
You think things are really that bad?
The ABs are still carving playing great rugby at times. The set piece can be hit and miss and forwards are a little soft - look at the Aussie rolling mail try yesterday, way too easy - but NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I think it's not really a NZ demise so much as everyone else is catching up - and even then they are having to do it with Kiwi coaches and much, much larger populations.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
All this talk of Razor needing international experience is bollocks, I think he's.just not upto it as an International coach, nor his team, although there is.an argument if he was upto it, hed bring them with him.
Don't get me.wrong, he is an outstanding coach for the grind of npc or super rugby, but that is where you have access to your group of players all the time.
International is different, we have the July tours for 4 weeks, then TRC for 6-8 weeks with breaks where players come and go, then eoyt.
I think he hasn't shown he can adapt to these shorter windows with his players.
Obviously we see his assistants as poor as well, and sans Ryan, who did look.the goods until the last month, the best he could.do is cut.them loose, but he won't and.2ndly who would step in anyway.
Sadly, the demise of a once great rugby nation started before 2019, accelerated under Foster before appearing to slow in 2023, but the fall has continued.
I honestly don't see them arresting this fall, watch super and npc and no one seems to want to address the issues evident in our game at all levels.
Of the 8 tests we have played this year, I have watched 2 in thier entirety, the losses to Argentina and the Boks, all the others I've come in at half time or not watched at all.
I want to care, and still care, but nothing like I used to where Mrs TR would know if we lost by my mood, now she barely knows a game is on.
You think things are really that bad?
The ABs are still carving playing great rugby at times. The set piece can be hit and miss and forwards are a little soft - look at the Aussie rolling mail try yesterday, way too easy - but NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I think it's not really a NZ demise so much as everyone else is catching up - and even then they are having to do it with Kiwi coaches and much, much larger populations.
@nonpartizan I actually do.
In general i am a positive person and dislike chicken little types, but am struggling to see the light here and how we rise up again without a massive shift in attitude at all levels. Yep, others have caught up and passed, but we seem stuck in 2018 and no clue how to move on.
Are we playing some good rugby? I'd say we have moments of brilliance but what team doesn't? By and large we are consistently poor and have been for too long for it to be a phase.
I hope I am wrong, I honestly do because I still love rugby, but it's NPC and club where that love is.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
All this talk of Razor needing international experience is bollocks, I think he's.just not upto it as an International coach, nor his team, although there is.an argument if he was upto it, hed bring them with him.
Don't get me.wrong, he is an outstanding coach for the grind of npc or super rugby, but that is where you have access to your group of players all the time.
International is different, we have the July tours for 4 weeks, then TRC for 6-8 weeks with breaks where players come and go, then eoyt.
I think he hasn't shown he can adapt to these shorter windows with his players.
Obviously we see his assistants as poor as well, and sans Ryan, who did look.the goods until the last month, the best he could.do is cut.them loose, but he won't and.2ndly who would step in anyway.
Sadly, the demise of a once great rugby nation started before 2019, accelerated under Foster before appearing to slow in 2023, but the fall has continued.
I honestly don't see them arresting this fall, watch super and npc and no one seems to want to address the issues evident in our game at all levels.
Of the 8 tests we have played this year, I have watched 2 in thier entirety, the losses to Argentina and the Boks, all the others I've come in at half time or not watched at all.
I want to care, and still care, but nothing like I used to where Mrs TR would know if we lost by my mood, now she barely knows a game is on.
You think things are really that bad?
The ABs are still carving playing great rugby at times. The set piece can be hit and miss and forwards are a little soft - look at the Aussie rolling mail try yesterday, way too easy - but NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I think it's not really a NZ demise so much as everyone else is catching up - and even then they are having to do it with Kiwi coaches and much, much larger populations.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
but NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
Jordan. As a winger is a shot.
Ardie ( on the bench by a coach who knows how to use him )
Taylor a very outside chance
Absolutely no one else.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
The ABs generated more than a 1,000 metres versus the Wallabies yesterday - Im not sure anyone else has or will this year.
I think the hiding that the Springboks dished out today puts Wellington in perspective a little bit. They are the gold standard in world rugby right now and with a population ten times larger than NZ they have the manpower.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
@akan004 I do think there is still the talent there, but the drain on our coaches and player resources is starting to tell, and then our desire to only play pretty rugby has drained alot of our ability to get the basics right and setting players up to be able to play attritional test rugby.
It's almost like we are going for the YouTube highlight reels plays all the time rather than that cliche I hate, earn the right to go wide, but again, this isn't just the ABs, it's super, it's NPC, it's in the club rugby I watch.
Anywhoo...
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
The ABs generated more than a 1,000 metres versus the Wallabies yesterday - Im not sure anyone else has or will this year.
I think the hiding that the Springboks dished out today puts Wellington in perspective a little bit. They are the gold standard in world rugby right now and with a population ten times larger than NZ they have the manpower.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
The ABs generated more than a 1,000 metres versus the Wallabies yesterday - Im not sure anyone else has or will this year.
I think the hiding that the Springboks dished out today puts Wellington in perspective a little bit. They are the gold standard in world rugby right now and with a population ten times larger than NZ they have the manpower.
We were also hampered by not using / having Holland, Roigard, DMac 10, Clarke and Paddy T.
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The difference Roigard - DMac make cannot be understated.
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In world rugby right now this is the pecking order -
-
Boks
-
Chasing pack of -
ABs
Wallabies
England
France
Ireland
Argentina
Of the chasing pack all can win against each other on their day but even then they can get one over the Boks as both the ABs and Wallabies did this year & Argentina & Ireland did last.
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I think we have pretty good players. The team doesn't seem to play to the sum of it's parts.
For starters we need a new captain.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I think we have pretty good players. The team doesn't seem to play to the sum of it's parts.
For starters we need a new captain.It’s not a vintage bunch, but the squad and coaching group don’t help themselves.
We had a clear overlap in the second half and butchered it.
Allblack teams of old put that through the hands and the bloke scores untouched in the corner
Historically if you gave us a sniff of a mismatch we took it. Now we fluff our lines.
Goal kicking. We miss too many.
Dan Carter used to twist the knife from the touch line.
All of a sudden you are ahead by double digits.
The opposition is demoralised and it blows out late on to a drubbing.
Now everyone is still in the game with us with 5 minutes to play.
DMAC looked good today because he still has juice in his legs. Beaudy is a shot fighter: He is done.
With Roigard at 9 , DMAC or a Ruben Love at 10, the opposition backrow can’t just drift onto Jordie en masse.
There are also plenty of talented players that New Zealand has turned their noses up at in the last 10 years.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I think we have pretty good players. The team doesn't seem to play to the sum of it's parts.
For starters we need a new captain.It’s not a vintage bunch, but the squad and coaching group don’t help themselves.
We had a clear overlap in the second half and butchered it.
Allblack teams of old put that through the hands and the bloke scores untouched in the corner
Historically if you gave us a sniff of a mismatch we took it. Now we fluff our lines.
Goal kicking. We miss too many.
Dan Carter used to twist the knife from the touch line.
All of a sudden you are ahead by double digits.
The opposition is demoralised and it blows out late on to a drubbing.
Now everyone is still in the game with us with 5 minutes to play.
DMAC looked good today because he still has juice in his legs. Beaudy is a shot fighter: He is done.
With Roigard at 9 , DMAC or a Ruben Love at 10, the opposition backrow can’t just drift onto Jordie en masse.
There are also plenty of talented players that New Zealand has turned their noses up at in the last 10 years.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
With Roigard at 9 , DMAC or a Ruben Love at 10, the opposition backrow can’t just drift onto Jordie en masse.
100%. It's obvious.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
The ABs generated more than a 1,000 metres versus the Wallabies yesterday - Im not sure anyone else has or will this year.
I think the hiding that the Springboks dished out today puts Wellington in perspective a little bit. They are the gold standard in world rugby right now and with a population ten times larger than NZ they have the manpower.
We were also hampered by not using / having Holland, Roigard, DMac 10, Clarke and Paddy T.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
The ABs generated more than a 1,000 metres versus the Wallabies yesterday - Im not sure anyone else has or will this year.
I think the hiding that the Springboks dished out today puts Wellington in perspective a little bit. They are the gold standard in world rugby right now and with a population ten times larger than NZ they have the manpower.
We were also hampered by not using / having Holland, Roigard, DMac 10, Clarke and Paddy T.
Agreed.
And also Cody Taylor - he is a big difference maker. -
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I think we have pretty good players. The team doesn't seem to play to the sum of it's parts.
For starters we need a new captain.It’s not a vintage bunch, but the squad and coaching group don’t help themselves.
We had a clear overlap in the second half and butchered it.
Allblack teams of old put that through the hands and the bloke scores untouched in the corner
Historically if you gave us a sniff of a mismatch we took it. Now we fluff our lines.
Goal kicking. We miss too many.
Dan Carter used to twist the knife from the touch line.
All of a sudden you are ahead by double digits.
The opposition is demoralised and it blows out late on to a drubbing.
Now everyone is still in the game with us with 5 minutes to play.
DMAC looked good today because he still has juice in his legs. Beaudy is a shot fighter: He is done.
With Roigard at 9 , DMAC or a Ruben Love at 10, the opposition backrow can’t just drift onto Jordie en masse.
There are also plenty of talented players that New Zealand has turned their noses up at in the last 10 years.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I think we have pretty good players. The team doesn't seem to play to the sum of it's parts.
For starters we need a new captain.It’s not a vintage bunch, but the squad and coaching group don’t help themselves.
We had a clear overlap in the second half and butchered it.
Allblack teams of old put that through the hands and the bloke scores untouched in the corner
Historically if you gave us a sniff of a mismatch we took it. Now we fluff our lines.
Goal kicking. We miss too many.
Dan Carter used to twist the knife from the touch line.
All of a sudden you are ahead by double digits.
The opposition is demoralised and it blows out late on to a drubbing.
Now everyone is still in the game with us with 5 minutes to play.
DMAC looked good today because he still has juice in his legs. Beaudy is a shot fighter: He is done.
With Roigard at 9 , DMAC or a Ruben Love at 10, the opposition backrow can’t just drift onto Jordie en masse.
There are also plenty of talented players that New Zealand has turned their noses up at in the last 10 years.
Great point on goal kicking. Beauden missed a couple yesterday that weren't easy but could have been crucial. He did the same in argie in the second test.
Hopefully a lot of people realized that yesterday the team looked so much better when Beauden went off. He has been a liability a lot this season.
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In world rugby right now this is the pecking order -
-
Boks
-
Chasing pack of -
ABs
Wallabies
England
France
Ireland
Argentina
Of the chasing pack all can win against each other on their day but even then they can get one over the Boks as both the ABs and Wallabies did this year & Argentina & Ireland did last.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
In world rugby right now this is the pecking order -
-
Boks
-
Chasing pack of -
ABs
Wallabies
England
France
Ireland
Argentina
Of the chasing pack all can win against each other on their day but even then they can get one over the Boks as both the ABs and Wallabies did this year & Argentina & Ireland did last.
I would say
- The Boks
Daylight
A bit more daylight - The full-strength France team
- Then a chasing pack of the ABs, the Wobs, England, Ireland and Argentina.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
In world rugby right now this is the pecking order -
-
Boks
-
Chasing pack of -
ABs
Wallabies
England
France
Ireland
Argentina
Of the chasing pack all can win against each other on their day but even then they can get one over the Boks as both the ABs and Wallabies did this year & Argentina & Ireland did last.
I would say
- The Boks
Daylight
A bit more daylight - The full-strength France team
- Then a chasing pack of the ABs, the Wobs, England, Ireland and Argentina.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
In world rugby right now this is the pecking order -
-
Boks
-
Chasing pack of -
ABs
Wallabies
England
France
Ireland
Argentina
Of the chasing pack all can win against each other on their day but even then they can get one over the Boks as both the ABs and Wallabies did this year & Argentina & Ireland did last.
I would say
- The Boks
Daylight
A bit more daylight - The full-strength France team
- Then a chasing pack of the ABs, the Wobs, England, Ireland and Argentina.
And if you look at that list consider that both South Africa and France have the biggest populations so in terms of manpower more resources. Its one of the reasons why the Springboks and France have so much depth.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
NZ are still in a position with talent production and skill levels that most in the world are envious of.
I don't think this is true anymore. How many ABs would make a World XV atm? Possibly only Roigard and even that's highly debatable with Dupont around. Can't think of anyone else.
The ABs generated more than a 1,000 metres versus the Wallabies yesterday - Im not sure anyone else has or will this year.
I think the hiding that the Springboks dished out today puts Wellington in perspective a little bit. They are the gold standard in world rugby right now and with a population ten times larger than NZ they have the manpower.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the hiding that the Springboks dished out today puts Wellington in perspective a little bit
Since about 2017 (apart from RWC2023) we've turned into headless chickens, produced periods of brain-farts and absolutely shit performances - but I've never seen an AB team simply give up like they did in Wellington.
I don't know if Robertson's a crap, over-fluffed Test coach, if his assistants are crap or there's trouble in camp but I do know he's not likely to turn this around based on what we've seen so far.
Not saying he should be sacked (and def. not treated like shit as Foster was) but there needs to be some serious, hard questions asked to find out what is going right and what isn't - and what needs to be done to improve things.
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I disagree. Versus Bok 2 we were still in it with 20 minutes to play. Kolbe's intercept was a game changer.
We needed optimum side as stated above and active captain.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I disagree. Versus Bok 2 we were still in it with 20 minutes to play. Kolbe's intercept was a game changer.
We needed optimum side as stated above and active captain.With a functioning set piece (particularly lineout) that game could and would have been more competitive. I personally think they would still have won but it would have been by a much more respectable score.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
In world rugby right now this is the pecking order -
-
Boks
-
Chasing pack of -
ABs
Wallabies
England
France
Ireland
Argentina
Of the chasing pack all can win against each other on their day but even then they can get one over the Boks as both the ABs and Wallabies did this year & Argentina & Ireland did last.
I would say
- The Boks
Daylight
A bit more daylight - The full-strength France team
- Then a chasing pack of the ABs, the Wobs, England, Ireland and Argentina.
And if you look at that list consider that both South Africa and France have the biggest populations so in terms of manpower more resources. Its one of the reasons why the Springboks and France have so much depth.
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