All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
Totally agree. Frizell may have kicked on but buggered-off and Blackadder is so injury-prone he hasn't been able to demonstrate his potential. As some point you have to say enough is enough.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
Akira was given about an equal chance by Foster vs Frizellm then they chose Frizell. He was going overseas before Robertson announced a squad. And apparently shitty humans is the way forward anyway.
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..Frizell clearly got more opportunities than Akira, otherwise how else would he have failed so spectacularly in a RWC final? Akira wasn't there. My response was to a comment saying he had more opportunists (sic) than others.
You're being a bit disingenuous about the number of games Blackadder has played, he's an insta pick in AB squads when not injured, he's just injured frequently.
I think you're being disingenuous about Frizell vs Ioane. They were clearly both auditioning for the 6 role at the world cup, and there was heaps of debate about it on here - and Ioane wasn't compellingly better. We weren't playing well with either of them there - but even you would have to admit that Frizz played one really good game in that period, where he was the player they wanted him to be. Prior to them making the call, the opportunities given would have been similar I reckon. After they made the call, of course Frizell played more games. That he was a bit shit in the WC after that doesn't change the fact that Ioane and he shared the 6 jersey in the lead-up before they settled on him.
I find the Blackadder hate weird - he's a good player, hasn't let anyone down whenever he's been fit to play and hasn't had the opportunity for an extended run - and he was picked by the previous coaches, it's not like he's a Fihaki. It's also not like we're not picking McCaw instead of him, all we're missing out on in the squad is just whichever poster's parochial favourite medium good loosie. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
Def agree with your premise on developing players over time (see Tupou Vaa'i). And while Akira was treated badly by Hansen but he had more opportunists than many under Foster but never quite kicked on.
Robertson and co. may have missed a trick last year with him, but we'll never know
And neither did Blackadder and Frizell yet one is an insta pick when fit and the other one is being courted constantly by the Tubby coach despite the fact he is in Japan and a shitty human.
Akira was given about an equal chance by Foster vs Frizellm then they chose Frizell. He was going overseas before Robertson announced a squad. And apparently shitty humans is the way forward anyway.
Blackadder still hasn't played as many games for the ABs as Akira did - so you could argue he hasn't had as much of a chance yet..Frizell clearly got more opportunities than Akira, otherwise how else would he have failed so spectacularly in a RWC final? Akira wasn't there. My response was to a comment saying he had more opportunists (sic) than others.
You're being a bit disingenuous about the number of games Blackadder has played, he's an insta pick in AB squads when not injured, he's just injured frequently.
I think you're being disingenuous about Frizell vs Ioane. They were clearly both auditioning for the 6 role at the world cup, and there was heaps of debate about it on here - and Ioane wasn't compellingly better. We weren't playing well with either of them there - but even you would have to admit that Frizz played one really good game in that period, where he was the player they wanted him to be. Prior to them making the call, the opportunities given would have been similar I reckon. After they made the call, of course Frizell played more games. That he was a bit shit in the WC after that doesn't change the fact that Ioane and he shared the 6 jersey in the lead-up before they settled on him.
I find the Blackadder hate weird - he's a good player, hasn't let anyone down whenever he's been fit to play and hasn't had the opportunity for an extended run - and he was picked by the previous coaches, it's not like he's a Fihaki. It's also not like we're not picking McCaw instead of him, all we're missing out on in the squad is just whichever poster's parochial favourite medium good loosie.Why don't you get it? It's been said many many times before. Ethan is a good player I think we can all agree. But I don't think he's good enough to deserve the treatment he gets. Every time he gets injured and comes back, Razor put some straight back into the starting lineup like he's the second coming of Richie McCaw. As Wallace showed, they are better options out there who aren't getting much opportunity if Ethan is fit
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@canefan Robertson has only been coach for one season mate, and according to Mauss' blindside thread it went like this:
Finau, Finau, Jacobson, Blackadder, Blackadder, Blackadder, Sititi, Sititi, Sititi, Finau, Sititi, Sititi, Finau, Sititi.He started 3 tests in a row - after Finau and Jacobson didn't play the house down - then was injured and didn't start another. What you're saying just isn't correct.
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Ethan's injury woes have affected his ability to even try and silence.doubters, which leads to the parochial calls, while.on the flipside, his injury woes affects our ability to get a settled loose trio, build combos and plan forward...
I mean look back at how stable it was with Rodders, Collins, McCaw and then Read, Kaino and McCaw, sure players came in and out when needed, but those were the go to trio for the large part of a decade or so.
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@taniwharugby yeah, but that's not Blackadder's fault, and nor is it the cause - it's been unstable the whole time post Kaino.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan Robertson has only been coach for one season mate, and according to Mauss' blindside thread it went like this:
Finau, Finau, Jacobson, Blackadder, Blackadder, Blackadder, Sititi, Sititi, Sititi, Finau, Sititi, Sititi, Finau, Sititi.He started 3 tests in a row - after Finau and Jacobson didn't play the house down - then was injured and didn't start another. What you're saying just isn't correct.
I think that's a little disingenuous mate. I don't think you can disagree if I say that if Ethan had not been injured that he wouldn't have probably started every test last year. Wallace only got his chance because Ethan got hurt. Before that he was just another guy carrying tackle bags
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@canefan But he was fit when selected in the squad wasn't he? He certainly played the Crusaders last couple of games. Then he wasn't selected to start at 6 for 2 games while Finau was, then he got a start at 7 in the 3rd while Jacobson got a run at 6. His first game at 6 wasn't until Argentina. He played both games against them, then SA 1 where we actually looked good for the first half and he played well. Then injured.
I think Blackadder only got his chance because Finau and Jacobson the other 6s picked didn't immediately impress - and he did play better than them. Why wouldn't he have kept his spot?
Wallace was picked as an 8, it was Ardie he was stuck behind - before a heap of things happened. Had he even played a super game at 6? It's certainly not like his season of dominant performances at 6 demanded selection and Blackadder was egregiously selected over him.
If you look at the other loosies last year: Cane, DP, LJ, Finau, Savea, Sititi. Of those, Sititi was a surprise standout, Savea was not at his best but still okay, and the others were all disappointing. So why is it EB who is undeserving - he played better than 4 of the other loosies in my eyes. He's just a really weird scapegoat to choose for our loosies being shit. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan But he was fit when selected in the squad wasn't he? He certainly played the Crusaders last couple of games. Then he wasn't selected to start at 6 for 2 games while Finau was, then he got a start at 7 in the 3rd while Jacobson got a run at 6. His first game at 6 wasn't until Argentina. He played both games against them, then SA 1 where we actually looked good for the first half and he played well. Then injured.
I think Blackadder only got his chance because Finau and Jacobson the other 6s picked didn't immediately impress - and he did play better than them. Why wouldn't he have kept his spot?
Wallace was picked as an 8, it was Ardie he was stuck behind - before a heap of things happened. Had he even played a super game at 6? It's certainly not like his season of dominant performances at 6 demanded selection and Blackadder was egregiously selected over him.
If you look at the other loosies last year: Cane, DP, LJ, Finau, Savea, Sititi. Of those, Sititi was a surprise standout, Savea was not at his best but still okay, and the others were all disappointing. So why is it EB who is undeserving - he played better than 4 of the other loosies in my eyes. He's just a really weird scapegoat to choose for our loosies being shit.I think Blackadder is a good player but there is no doubt Ryan has a hard on for him. That was clear when he got called into the RWC squad after f all game time and Ryan gushed about him being 118kg.
They wheeled him out against Uruguay where he proceeded to play like a guy who had f all game time and then thankfully didn't look at him again.
Not that it made any difference in the end.
Blackadder is always in their minds. They love his workrate. The thing about Finau is we won those two games against England. He didn't play poorly.
It was a solid effort against solid England loose trios.
Finau has far more upside long term than Blackadder and they could have built on that. Instead they give Blackadder several tests to build some form only for him to get injured.
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@reprobate agreed, not Ethans fault, but the point is, his body just doesnt appear upto the rigours of high level rugby, maybe time they need to accept this and move on to try and build on someone else.
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Overall, given their choice of locks and loose forwards last year to compliment their mobile game plan I'm pretty skeptical that we will win the crunch games against the big teams with Razors game plan.
Even Argentina, showed again in Wellington last year that we are vulnerable with these players when a team muscles up.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan But he was fit when selected in the squad wasn't he? He certainly played the Crusaders last couple of games. Then he wasn't selected to start at 6 for 2 games while Finau was, then he got a start at 7 in the 3rd while Jacobson got a run at 6. His first game at 6 wasn't until Argentina. He played both games against them, then SA 1 where we actually looked good for the first half and he played well. Then injured.
I think Blackadder only got his chance because Finau and Jacobson the other 6s picked didn't immediately impress - and he did play better than them. Why wouldn't he have kept his spot?
Wallace was picked as an 8, it was Ardie he was stuck behind - before a heap of things happened. Had he even played a super game at 6? It's certainly not like his season of dominant performances at 6 demanded selection and Blackadder was egregiously selected over him.
If you look at the other loosies last year: Cane, DP, LJ, Finau, Savea, Sititi. Of those, Sititi was a surprise standout, Savea was not at his best but still okay, and the others were all disappointing. So why is it EB who is undeserving - he played better than 4 of the other loosies in my eyes. He's just a really weird scapegoat to choose for our loosies being shit.Blackadder is always in their minds. They love his workrate. The thing about Finau is we won those two games against England. He didn't play poorly.
It was a solid effort against solid England loose trios.
Finau has far more upside long term than Blackadder and they could have built on that. Instead they give Blackadder several tests to build some form only for him to get injured.
In the only metric that matters: 0% Fern MOTM votes for Samipeni in both games. I don't think he was bad by any means, but he didn't stand out or dominate. You can make an argument that he deserved more of a chance, sure, but it's hardly black and white. Jacobson came off the bench in those two tests and was also solid but didn't add much, then started the next one. Blackadder just played better than them. Then Sititi - who did stand out - kept getting picked.
If you want to keep picking an okay Finau, Sititi doesn't get a run. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan But he was fit when selected in the squad wasn't he? He certainly played the Crusaders last couple of games. Then he wasn't selected to start at 6 for 2 games while Finau was, then he got a start at 7 in the 3rd while Jacobson got a run at 6. His first game at 6 wasn't until Argentina. He played both games against them, then SA 1 where we actually looked good for the first half and he played well. Then injured.
I think Blackadder only got his chance because Finau and Jacobson the other 6s picked didn't immediately impress - and he did play better than them. Why wouldn't he have kept his spot?
Wallace was picked as an 8, it was Ardie he was stuck behind - before a heap of things happened. Had he even played a super game at 6? It's certainly not like his season of dominant performances at 6 demanded selection and Blackadder was egregiously selected over him.
If you look at the other loosies last year: Cane, DP, LJ, Finau, Savea, Sititi. Of those, Sititi was a surprise standout, Savea was not at his best but still okay, and the others were all disappointing. So why is it EB who is undeserving - he played better than 4 of the other loosies in my eyes. He's just a really weird scapegoat to choose for our loosies being shit.Blackadder was injured for the start of the season, and was put straight back into the starting lineup when he was fit again. He started every single test he was fit for last year, which in theory would make him the incumbent, hence peoples concerns that were are going to end up with an EB - Savea - Sititi trio which won't work against the top sides.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
Share your opinion with certainty and you will always get a few likes
Ioane is one of many super talented blindsides we have tried with mixed output. Some excellent performances and some not so.
Sorry ACT but this is exactly what I am talking about. Nonu and Kaino both also had some excellent performances with many not so, but it was clear they had the tools to succeed at the top level (given their excellent performances) so were persevered with until they matured into the consistent players they became. Akira has been cast aside due to personal beef/bias from our coaches just as he came of age as a player, which is a crazy waste of talent. And yes I will die on this hill.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan But he was fit when selected in the squad wasn't he? He certainly played the Crusaders last couple of games. Then he wasn't selected to start at 6 for 2 games while Finau was, then he got a start at 7 in the 3rd while Jacobson got a run at 6. His first game at 6 wasn't until Argentina. He played both games against them, then SA 1 where we actually looked good for the first half and he played well. Then injured.
I think Blackadder only got his chance because Finau and Jacobson the other 6s picked didn't immediately impress - and he did play better than them. Why wouldn't he have kept his spot?
Wallace was picked as an 8, it was Ardie he was stuck behind - before a heap of things happened. Had he even played a super game at 6? It's certainly not like his season of dominant performances at 6 demanded selection and Blackadder was egregiously selected over him.
If you look at the other loosies last year: Cane, DP, LJ, Finau, Savea, Sititi. Of those, Sititi was a surprise standout, Savea was not at his best but still okay, and the others were all disappointing. So why is it EB who is undeserving - he played better than 4 of the other loosies in my eyes. He's just a really weird scapegoat to choose for our loosies being shit.Blackadder is always in their minds. They love his workrate. The thing about Finau is we won those two games against England. He didn't play poorly.
It was a solid effort against solid England loose trios.
Finau has far more upside long term than Blackadder and they could have built on that. Instead they give Blackadder several tests to build some form only for him to get injured.
In the only metric that matters: 0% Fern MOTM votes for Samipeni in both games. I don't think he was bad by any means, but he didn't stand out or dominate. You can make an argument that he deserved more of a chance, sure, but it's hardly black and white. Jacobson came off the bench in those two tests and was also solid but didn't add much, then started the next one. Blackadder just played better than them. Then Sititi - who did stand out - kept getting picked.
If you want to keep picking an okay Finau, Sititi doesn't get a run.Blackadder and Sititi came in for that first test against Argentina that we lost. They each gave away 3 penalties. That was half of our penalties for the game. Sititi managed his 3 penalties in 16 minutes.
When Sititi came on for Papali'i we were actually winning the game.
Neither Finau or Jacobson caused those kinds of problems for us in the other games.
BTW Blackadder finished the year on 1 vote and Finau on 3 votes.
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Arguing about Blackadder v Finau v Ioane v Frizell... the whole point is all four are/were inconsistent, all four have their strengths and weaknesses, and none of them have been able to nail down the number six jersey, because for those reasons they are limited. Blindside flanker has long been a problem position for the All Blacks (including when Kaino is around), because of what the role entails.
Depending what is asked of the blindside flanker, I'm not sure they can ever be that consistent. If they go for Savea and Sititi though, they are probably looking for a guy to hit rucks, and to carry hard up the middle. Blackadder for all his faults will attempt to do that. I personally think if you stuck Holland in at lock you might be able go a little bit more adventurous, but as others have pointed out, maybe Sititi should go to the bench?
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan But he was fit when selected in the squad wasn't he? He certainly played the Crusaders last couple of games. Then he wasn't selected to start at 6 for 2 games while Finau was, then he got a start at 7 in the 3rd while Jacobson got a run at 6. His first game at 6 wasn't until Argentina. He played both games against them, then SA 1 where we actually looked good for the first half and he played well. Then injured.
I think Blackadder only got his chance because Finau and Jacobson the other 6s picked didn't immediately impress - and he did play better than them. Why wouldn't he have kept his spot?
Wallace was picked as an 8, it was Ardie he was stuck behind - before a heap of things happened. Had he even played a super game at 6? It's certainly not like his season of dominant performances at 6 demanded selection and Blackadder was egregiously selected over him.
If you look at the other loosies last year: Cane, DP, LJ, Finau, Savea, Sititi. Of those, Sititi was a surprise standout, Savea was not at his best but still okay, and the others were all disappointing. So why is it EB who is undeserving - he played better than 4 of the other loosies in my eyes. He's just a really weird scapegoat to choose for our loosies being shit.Blackadder is always in their minds. They love his workrate. The thing about Finau is we won those two games against England. He didn't play poorly.
It was a solid effort against solid England loose trios.
Finau has far more upside long term than Blackadder and they could have built on that. Instead they give Blackadder several tests to build some form only for him to get injured.
In the only metric that matters: 0% Fern MOTM votes for Samipeni in both games. I don't think he was bad by any means, but he didn't stand out or dominate. You can make an argument that he deserved more of a chance, sure, but it's hardly black and white. Jacobson came off the bench in those two tests and was also solid but didn't add much, then started the next one. Blackadder just played better than them. Then Sititi - who did stand out - kept getting picked.
If you want to keep picking an okay Finau, Sititi doesn't get a run.Blackadder and Sititi came in for that first test against Argentina that we lost. They each gave away 3 penalties. That was half of our penalties for the game. Sititi managed his 3 penalties in 16 minutes.
When Sititi came on for Papali'i we were actually winning the game.
Neither Finau or Jacobson caused those kinds of problems for us in the other games.
BTW Blackadder finished the year on 1 vote and Finau on 3 votes.
Sititi was crap vs ARG: but you don't discard a guy based on 16 minutes, and after that he was really good.
Jacobson would have been close to the most penalised guy in Super rugby last year I reckon, and Finau's discipline is currently being rubbished on here for just last weekend.
When Blackadder came off for Finau against SA we were winning the game too.
You're talking MOTM points not votes. All 3 for Finau would be vs Japan probably. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan But he was fit when selected in the squad wasn't he? He certainly played the Crusaders last couple of games. Then he wasn't selected to start at 6 for 2 games while Finau was, then he got a start at 7 in the 3rd while Jacobson got a run at 6. His first game at 6 wasn't until Argentina. He played both games against them, then SA 1 where we actually looked good for the first half and he played well. Then injured.
I think Blackadder only got his chance because Finau and Jacobson the other 6s picked didn't immediately impress - and he did play better than them. Why wouldn't he have kept his spot?
Wallace was picked as an 8, it was Ardie he was stuck behind - before a heap of things happened. Had he even played a super game at 6? It's certainly not like his season of dominant performances at 6 demanded selection and Blackadder was egregiously selected over him.
If you look at the other loosies last year: Cane, DP, LJ, Finau, Savea, Sititi. Of those, Sititi was a surprise standout, Savea was not at his best but still okay, and the others were all disappointing. So why is it EB who is undeserving - he played better than 4 of the other loosies in my eyes. He's just a really weird scapegoat to choose for our loosies being shit.Blackadder is always in their minds. They love his workrate. The thing about Finau is we won those two games against England. He didn't play poorly.
It was a solid effort against solid England loose trios.
Finau has far more upside long term than Blackadder and they could have built on that. Instead they give Blackadder several tests to build some form only for him to get injured.
In the only metric that matters: 0% Fern MOTM votes for Samipeni in both games. I don't think he was bad by any means, but he didn't stand out or dominate. You can make an argument that he deserved more of a chance, sure, but it's hardly black and white. Jacobson came off the bench in those two tests and was also solid but didn't add much, then started the next one. Blackadder just played better than them. Then Sititi - who did stand out - kept getting picked.
If you want to keep picking an okay Finau, Sititi doesn't get a run.Blackadder and Sititi came in for that first test against Argentina that we lost. They each gave away 3 penalties. That was half of our penalties for the game. Sititi managed his 3 penalties in 16 minutes.
When Sititi came on for Papali'i we were actually winning the game.
Neither Finau or Jacobson caused those kinds of problems for us in the other games.
BTW Blackadder finished the year on 1 vote and Finau on 3 votes.
Sititi was crap vs ARG: but you don't discard a guy based on 16 minutes, and after that he was really good.
Your argument was that Sititi and Blackadder got a chance and produced right away while Finau and Jacobson were solid.
Clearly that was not the case. They both contributed to a our first loss of the year - against Argentina. A team we should have put away given the lead we had.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean Finau and Jacobson would have both had over 100 minutes of test footy at that point. You can't compare that to 16 from Sititi.
That's not relevant. You said both of them took their chances immediately which clearly they didn't. They were both given the benefit of the doubt despite contributing to the first loss of 2025 with poor discipline.
IMO it would have been better to stick to the combination that won against England. There was no reason to bring Blackadder in at 6.
