All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Well I thought Finau mixed it up well last night. He's still good at making metres close in. The main issue I think with those three is they don't have a lot of focus on cleaning.
Yep, agree. Finau certainly has the size and power to run at forwards, probably moreso than Savea who is all about leg drive post-contact which doesn't give the same momentum as it effectively makes for slower ball, and Sititi who has quick feet pre-contact and good body position, but is not that big.
It may be that we just can't have both Sititi and Savea starting, and the best balance is one of them on the bench, with Finau and one of the EB/LJ/DP style workers to round out the trio. 6:2 bench, and you could have e.g. Finau/Dalton/Sititi then EB/Savea/Sotutu. We may not have all-time loosies at the moment, but we do have depth: a whole lot of very good ones, so good use of the bench would help us make the most of them. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Well I thought Finau mixed it up well last night. He's still good at making metres close in. The main issue I think with those three is they don't have a lot of focus on cleaning.
Yep, agree. Finau certainly has the size and power to run at forwards, probably moreso than Savea who is all about leg drive post-contact which doesn't give the same momentum as it effectively makes for slower ball, and Sititi who has quick feet pre-contact and good body position, but is not that big.
It may be that we just can't have both Sititi and Savea starting, and the best balance is one of them on the bench, with Finau and one of the EB/LJ/DP style workers to round out the trio. 6:2 bench, and you could have e.g. Finau/Dalton/Sititi then EB/Savea/Sotutu. We may not have all-time loosies at the moment, but we do have depth: a whole lot of very good ones, so good use of the bench would help us make the most of them.That sounds promising. More like the saffas, where you pick players to start or sub depending on their strengths. The tighter back row plays the first half, the looser more dynamic one plays the second half, or whatever the strategy is. Both empty the tank in the time they have
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Parsons mentioned on Aotearoa Rugby Pod that he would pick Savea, Sititi, Kirifi and Jacobsen as his first four choices in the loose and then said the last two were up in the air. Blackadder, Lakai, Finau, Papali'i and Parker are all obvious options that could be in the frame.
Problem for Kirifi is if they see Ardie as a 7. Lakai is such a talent, that it would be backwards to leave him out, so in which case he has to supplant three current guys in Papalii, Jacobson and Blackadder - and as a 28 year old, I just don't really see them going that way - unless they go towards a 6-2 split - which I don't see them doing.
Further, Kirifi's best attribute (jackaling) is arguably less valuable at the end of the game, where referees tend to blow less penalties + teams are less inclinced to jackal due to risk of conceding a penalty.
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If we try and simplify this a little by looking at this through the lens of where the candidates have been playing in SRP we get:
7 Paps, Jacobson, Kirifi, RD
6 Finau, Parker, Blackadder, [Grace].
8 Sotutu, Sititi, Lakai, Leo Willie
But of course Jacobson, RD, Blackadder, and Lakai can play 7 and 8 and at a push 6, as probably can Paps.
It’s tricky. RD is a given.
I think I’d then pick specialist 6s and 8s, which for me would be Parker, Finau, Sititi and Sotutu.
Then two from Jacobson, Blackadder, Paps, Lakai and Kirifi.
For me, given Ethan’s fragility, I think I’d pick Luke and Peter, which is tough on the others.
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There seems to be a lot of favour for the small loose forwards at the moment from Robertson's coaching group. This isn't so much an issue when the tight five are dominant but we aren't always going to have the same level of dominance we've seen against France B and C.
The combo of Lio Willie, Kirifi and Savea struggled in the last quarter last night.
When we consider the size groups of loose forwards there seems to be too many from the small group.
Small Loose Forwards
Ardie Savea
Duplesis Kirifi
Christian Lio Willie
Peter Lakai
Wallace SititiMedium Loose Forwards
Ethan Blackadder
Dalton Papali'i
Luke Jacobson
Hoskins Sotutu
Devan FlandersLarge Loose Forwards
Samipeni Finau
Simon Parker
Oliver Haig
TK HowdenMore and more Vaa'i could be included as a large loose forward but he's been selected as a lock in the current squad. With the emergence of Holland it seems like his experiment at blindside is getting closer and closer to being locked in. We need to see how he goes against South Africa and a first choice Puma's side.
We need a big more balance in the loose forwards squad mix and the match day 23 mix.
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@booboo said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean i reckon Ah Koui maybe a direct replacement for Vaa'i for inclusion in the large group.
Certainly has potential. Given how dominant our lineout has been with Holland in and Vaa'i at blindside would Ah Kuoi come in more as a potential blindside replacement?
When Darry and Lord are fit they would be better lineout options than Ah Kuoi as test level locks.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@booboo said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean i reckon Ah Koui maybe a direct replacement for Vaa'i for inclusion in the large group.
Certainly has potential. Given how dominant our lineout has been with Holland in and Vaa'i at blindside would Ah Kuoi come in more as a potential blindside replacement?
When Darry and Lord are fit they would be better lineout options than Ah Kuoi as test level locks.
6-lock rather than lock-6
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@Bones said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean aren't Finau and Sotutu basically the same size?
Certainly when compared to Cortez Ratima
Maybe Sotutu has put a bit of extra beef on since Cotter came along. To me Papali'i, Sotutu, Blackadder and Jacobson have all looked a similar size with Finau being a bit bigger - few extra centimetres and maybe another 5 kg.
I mean they're all bigger than Kirifi and Lio Willie. Kirifi is listed as 181cm and Laulala is listed as 184cm.
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@brodean I was just surprised to see Sotutu as medium and did a brief Google, which showed him as the same height and a couple of kilos lighter. Even Flanders was the same height, but significantly lighter (although I'd be very surprised if he's still only 108kg).
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Howden is interesting indeed but kinda young right? 23? Ok old enough then.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@MN5 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Great having you on the fern Sean Fitzpatrick.
I suspect even Sean Fitzpatrick would pick Valetini.
No.
He didn’t pick loads of good Aussie players in 2003. I see no reason why he would select differently now
I'll put it another way, if you could choose prime 2003 or 2025 ABs, say in the loosies, who would you pick?
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@Bones said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean I was just surprised to see Sotutu as medium and did a brief Google, which showed him as the same height and a couple of kilos lighter. Even Flanders was the same height, but significantly lighter (although I'd be very surprised if he's still only 108kg).
Its more down to height.
Kieran Read and Liam Messam were about the same playing weight but 1.93cm and 1.88cm respectively which bizarrely put them as "big" and "medium" respectively
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@MN5 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@MN5 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Great having you on the fern Sean Fitzpatrick.
I suspect even Sean Fitzpatrick would pick Valetini.
No.
He didn’t pick loads of good Aussie players in 2003. I see no reason why he would select differently now
I'll put it another way, if you could choose prime 2003 or 2025 ABs, say in the loosies, who would you pick?
Pretty easy. I'd go 2003 Meatloaf.
6 Collins
7 McCaw
8 Savea
