All Blacks v Springboks I
-
-
This just highlights a flaw that's always been pretty apparent, I'm not sure he's really talking out of turn here on Rieko.
I wasn't in favor of them moving Rieko back to the wing as he's at the age where his speed will be on the way out, and he's never really been great under the high ball. Can we really see him on the wing at the next WC? Ben Smith he is not.
He's at an age when it's time for him to focus on being a really good 13, and this is where the coaching group have got to wear it a bit - he can cover wing but he's a 13, so either pick him there or fucking leave him out.
-
-
Rieko has easily been a better centre than what we have seen from Proctor so far at test level - and also comfortably better than ALB over the last four years at test level.
Proctor and ALBs games just aren't translating at test level.
I agree that Rieko should be considered as a 13 that covers wing. He's never been strong under the high ball.
People get over excited about Super form. Super Rugby is no longer the premier club competition.
Reece is another example of a player who has been great in Super Rugby and mediocre at test level.
-
@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Speaking of Dagg and ex players not being critical of current ABs, evidently he’s not a Rieko fan… and wasn’t when they played together
So Dagg was covering Rieko being unable to catch high balls.
He still can'tAdd that to Rieko having years to develop a passing game at center.
There's two core skills he has had a lot of time and utterly failed to develop.
Fuck off now.
-
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Speaking of Dagg and ex players not being critical of current ABs, evidently he’s not a Rieko fan… and wasn’t when they played together
So Dagg was covering Rieko being unable to catch high balls.
He still can'tAdd that to Rieko having years to develop a passing game at center.
There's two core skills he has had a lot of time and utterly failed to develop.
Fuck off now.
Add to this that Rieko after a decade of test rugby / pro rugby didn't develop one iota of a kicking game.
-
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
-
@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Speaking of Dagg and ex players not being critical of current ABs, evidently he’s not a Rieko fan… and wasn’t when they played together
Ioane is pretty tall and people who are very quick can also generally jump high. No excuse why he can’t do this.
Loving Daggs almost Norm Hewitt like honesty. Must be a Hawkes Bay thing @Nepia
-
@Dan54 when Parsons was playing he always had some great analysis of games, players, was always good value.
Such a shame if these guys are being restrained on what they can and can't say now.
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
And now you're completely ignoring Rieko with ball in hand. It's extremely rare to see him do anything other than tuck and duck, heading directly at one or two defenders. Two hands, eyes up, feet before the tackle is as far from his mind as possible.
-
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Speaking of Dagg and ex players not being critical of current ABs, evidently he’s not a Rieko fan… and wasn’t when they played together
Ioane is pretty tall and people who are very quick can also generally jump high. No excuse why he can’t do this.
Loving Daggs almost Norm Hewitt like honesty. Must be a Hawkes Bay thing @Nepia
The problem with that Bay honesty is that he doesn't also have Crusaders honesty and he's given his village of the damned teammates a pass, despite his fluffing of Jordan, in this match he didn't look assured in the slightest under the high ball, and Reece wasn't really trying to catch anything.
At least he didn't finish the comments with the gambling odds.
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
No argument that he's a great defender.
And he could actually be a better option than Proctor at 13..........sigh.But the lack of skill development is terrible.
-
@OomPB said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
It's going to be make or break for the Springboks. Most of them will remember the previous test at Mount Smart. The All Blacks challenge will put some spring in that old age Springboks step.
Most of them have never played at Eden park
-
@Frank said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
Except Riekos been incredibly poor at 13 for years.
It's just quite depressing to see someone who is clearly not good enough for internationals getting an automatic 1st team pick over and over.
Well, if you completely ignore the fact he's one of the best defensive centre's we've had in a long time, I guess you could make that claim. I've said before, but I think a team like SA would value Rieko at centre a LOT more than we do given how much ground he covers on defense. But we're very focused on our centre's creating tries while ignoring other crucial aspects of the role at that level. I firmly believe the issues with Rieko on attack is because our backline tactics have been poor for a long time now, which means we never utilise his speed on the outside shoulder to get over the advantage line. Using him as a crash ball merchant so often is just so dumb.
No argument that he's a great defender.
And he could actually be a better option than Proctor at 13..........sigh.But the lack of skill development is terrible.
I think the key takeaway from @No-Quarter's post is that regardless of skills development the ABs backline tactics have meant he's never been able to shine in the areas certain members of the Fern think are all that counts. Yet, with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism, suggesting could be a systemic issue rather than an individual issue.
I wouldn't mind seeing Ennor get a go because his fluffers seem to suggest he's more in the Smith mould than the other two, so it would be good to see if he could function in that way in the current AB system.
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Frank thing is, once they hit the ABs, even Super, development shouldn't be needed, should just be fine tuning, but that is the problem, so many skills are being ignored at lower levels.
Rieko is like his brother, freakish athleticism led to weaknesses in their game being papered over. I can understand that.
What I can't understand is the seeming lack of desire to address those deficiencies. Rieko is tall and quick. Look how little the Bok wingers are and they are good in the air. Why couldn't he get good under the high ball? Why couldn't training drills be set up to improve his passing or positioning on attack at center?
Compare to the legend that is Ben Smith. Far less gifted but kept working on his skills. Ends up being a complete player.
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
-
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
Huh, a player can still get criticised on the actual game they play even if they haven't played many games.
Also, I said it was a systemic issue so wasn't attacking your boy Proctor (he hasn't lived up the hype yet but if @Canes4life didn't exist then that hype would be about 95% less).
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Springboks I:
with Proctor in the role now he's facing the same criticism
Yeah true, as they've clearly played the same amount of test rugby, so it can't be just that Proctor has as much experience in a difficult position as Rieko has had in half of one of his many test seasons.
Huh, a player can still get criticised on the actual game they play even if they haven't played many games.
Also, I said it was a systemic issue so wasn't attacking your boy Proctor (he hasn't lived up the hype yet but if @Canes4life didn't exist then that hype would be about 95% less).
