All Blacks 2026
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@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
The thinking around Casey should be part of the evolution of how we view players. As a hybrid player, he is probably best suited to the no20 jersey.
May start in Super. His future in international footy can be split across the 7/8 role as an 25/30 minute impact player.
Neat. Another one. We have far too many of these at the moment, we need really fucking good specialists.
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
The thinking around Casey should be part of the evolution of how we view players. As a hybrid player, he is probably best suited to the no20 jersey.
May start in Super. His future in international footy can be split across the 7/8 role as an 25/30 minute impact player.
Neat. Another one. We have far too many of these at the moment, we need really fucking good specialists.
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
Can't think of one
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
The thinking around Casey should be part of the evolution of how we view players. As a hybrid player, he is probably best suited to the no20 jersey.
May start in Super. His future in international footy can be split across the 7/8 role as an 25/30 minute impact player.
Neat. Another one. We have far too many of these at the moment, we need really fucking good specialists.
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
Can't think of one
@booboo said in All Blacks 2026:
Edit. I see @taniwharugby got to this well ahead of me. There must be a name for this.
Can't think of one
a sporting sciolism?
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I think Papalii would probably have been aware of some of the rumblings behind the scenes in regard to the current coaches - possibly more than anyone - but I don't think he necessarily would have foreseen them being out of a job now.
Not being selected probably prompted him to think more about financial security and his future, and the guaranteed big bucks of France vs the uncertainty here seems to have weighed large on him. I don't think this is solely down to his non-selection.
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He might not be popular on here, but we are in a bit of a bubble - Ardie Savea is still viewed by many not only as an openside, but also our best one, and potentially our captain. You can debate the merits of that, but Papalii has chosen financial security - and I think his comments elude to that.
Has been hard done by? Yes.
Would he be leaving at this juncture if he was active member of the All Blacks matchday squad? Probably Not
Has he chosen financial security? Also yes.@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
Papalii hasn’t been factually number one. Factually number one is the first pick in the jersey. That isn’t even for debate.
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@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
Couldn't agree more .That exactly what I was saying, he's not going because of lak of support , or for the rumour etc, he going because the certainty of the money is what he wants.
I in no way have a problem with him for that.He's not exactly going to come out and talk about these reasons publicly - at least not yet
Young people these days. Not hard like the men of the 70s. They just got on and did what was needed!
Leaving the kids in the car while they went to the pub then driving home drunk was needed?
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
Couldn't agree more .That exactly what I was saying, he's not going because of lak of support , or for the rumour etc, he going because the certainty of the money is what he wants.
I in no way have a problem with him for that.He's not exactly going to come out and talk about these reasons publicly - at least not yet
Young people these days. Not hard like the men of the 70s. They just got on and did what was needed!
Leaving the kids in the car while they went to the pub then driving home drunk was needed?
You'd be amazed at what the hard men of the 60's and 70's got up to.. When I was growing up in Lower Hutt, there was an AB nearby well-known as a wife-beater.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2026:
Bit of a bummer to be losing our best Openside flanker at the end of the year. Hopefully, Paps will still go on the South Africa tour.
No point wasting game time on him when we need to sort out our team for RWC. Such a shame
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2026:
Bit of a bummer to be losing our best Openside flanker at the end of the year. Hopefully, Paps will still go on the South Africa tour.
No point wasting game time on him when we need to sort out our team for RWC. Such a shame
Well, personally I'd focus for now on Bok tour.
Wind that series and we've taken a huge step toward RWC success.
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I don’t want Savea starting. I’m not convinced Sititi and Lakai should start together either. I’m not sure what the answer is - we’ll see how the Super season plays out - but I’d like a bigger, more balanced loose forward trio, each with their obvious roles. It’s something people have been calling for for a while now.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:
I don’t want Savea starting. I’m not convinced Sititi and Lakai should start together either. I’m not sure what the answer is - we’ll see how the Super season plays out - but I’d like a bigger, more balanced loose forward trio, each with their obvious roles. It’s something people have been calling for for a while now.
Michael Jones was 6' 1".
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
-
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
The ABs want to play with a running 10,
they do?
Lay off ole shovel along will you!
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
Papalii hasn’t been factually number one. Factually number one is the first pick in the jersey. That isn’t even for debate.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
Papalii hasn’t been factually number one. Factually number one is the first pick in the jersey. That isn’t even for debate.
This is a definition issue. Best openside vs the one the coaches select.
The one constantly picked can identify a ruck because he's remarkably adept at avoiding them. That doesn't make him the best.
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
I was talking from a playing ability and culture standpoint, not a nepotism/provincialism/franchise-ism standpoint.
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
I was talking from a playing ability and culture standpoint, not a nepotism/provincialism/franchise-ism standpoint.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
I was talking from a playing ability and culture standpoint, not a nepotism/provincialism/franchise-ism standpoint.
What have you done with Nepia?!
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
The ABs want to play with a running 10,
they do?
I think in general that is what a New Zealand side favours. That is one of the reasons why the old coaching group was so hell bent on getting Mo'unga back.
