All Blacks 2026
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
The ABs want to play with a running 10,
they do?
Lay off ole shovel along will you!
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
Papalii hasn’t been factually number one. Factually number one is the first pick in the jersey. That isn’t even for debate.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
If he was a starting incumbent, I find it hard to see him making this choice - but we can't pretend that a guy who at no stage in his All Blacks career has been factually the number one openside flanker, was guaranteed to be that, even under new coaches - and he would be aware of that.
He has been factually the number one openside since Cane retired, and there's a very strong argument to be made that he was the number one openside in Cane's last year or two. But of course that coincided with the anti-Blues brigade taking over. Akira was the number one blindside at that time, and Hoskins was the number one eight. By the end of that season there was some distance between them and the other loosies in NZ. I can't really overstate what an absolute fucking scandal it is that they have not been regulars for the ABs since then, and by fuck have the ABs suffered as a result.
Papalii hasn’t been factually number one. Factually number one is the first pick in the jersey. That isn’t even for debate.
This is a definition issue. Best openside vs the one the coaches select.
The one constantly picked can identify a ruck because he's remarkably adept at avoiding them. That doesn't make him the best.
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
I was talking from a playing ability and culture standpoint, not a nepotism/provincialism/franchise-ism standpoint.
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the
BayTa$man for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.FIFY
I was talking from a playing ability and culture standpoint, not a nepotism/provincialism/franchise-ism standpoint.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
I was talking from a playing ability and culture standpoint, not a nepotism/provincialism/franchise-ism standpoint.
What have you done with Nepia?!
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
The ABs want to play with a running 10,
they do?
I think in general that is what a New Zealand side favours. That is one of the reasons why the old coaching group was so hell bent on getting Mo'unga back.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
The anti-Auckland bias is hard to ignore. That aside, you can set alight a backline if you can competently identify space and pass. The others can do the running if you're able to determine when it's best to kick, the type of kick, or pass to the correct recipient.
-
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
The anti-Auckland bias is hard to ignore. That aside, you can set alight a backline if you can competently identify space and pass. The others can do the running if you're able to determine when it's best to kick, the type of kick, or pass to the correct recipient.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2026:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@Gunner said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I know this is not quite the right thread, but it does link with the difficulty of keeping our best players.
Have a look at the quality of restaurants in Castres. Foie gras mi-cuit for a starter then Viande Braisée ou confite du moment at La Foganha is just one of the many fucking cool places to enjoy.
I assume most of the ABs can earn better money with less travel and less pressure in places like France? Once you feel you are being treated less than fairly it's probably easy to take the money and run
100%
Plus you can have an incredible OE really enjoying the best of Europe.
In many ways, it's surprising that we can keep many of these guys for as long as we have. Looking at guys who are on the edges of selection for 2026, you'd have to say guys like Perofeta (for example) may better to bolt this year (when fewer top players are available) if it seems like AB selection is out of reach or you'll end up like Love from last year and essentially be an AB in name only.Perofeta should go. Akira, Hoskins, DP, Plummer, Lam, the Blues are getting gutted
That’s a lot of AB standard talent walking out the door.
Im still amazed that Plummer and Lam never got a chance. And don’t pull me up about Plummer… I know he got a few minutes, that ain’t a fucking chance.I'll pull you up on Plummer. Not because he got a chance (he didn't), but because he had one good season, made a squad, then fucked off. Plenty of players have had more than one good season and not made a squad (e.g. Lam), so I don't think Plummer was particularly hard done by looking at historical standards. He's also quite a bit younger than BB, McKenzie and Mo'unga - he could have stayed if he wanted to.
@gt12 the point about him fucking off because of the fawning over Mo'unga is a good one though.
Plummer did well for the Blues but would have been nothing more than a steady stop gap at test level and after a few tests people would have been calling for him to be dropped. Nothing against him but he wasn't the future.
Yeah similar to Cory Jane maybe. He wasn't the future either, guy couldn't even get into the wellington team so had to play for Hawkes. A small, relatively slow guy in his mid-twenties with an average kicking game was not the future, should have only been given 2 mins at the end of one test.
Should have sent Plummer down to the Bay for a season and we would have turned him into a long term AB as well.
The Cory Jane example is everything that is wrong with how they handled a bunch of guys including Plummer. Even some posters on here are happy to dismiss a guy they don't perceive to be test standard, instead of at least taking some time to kick the tyres. He drove the Blues to the championship, maybe it was a lucky run or maybe there's something there. Some guys just need to be given a chance and they shine. Mitch Jr is the cricket equivalent of Cory
I wasn't a fan of Plummer for quite some time but he improved dramatically in that 2024 year and I agree he should have got a proper look.
Beauden Barrett hasn't gotten close to producing for the Blues what Plummer did in 2024
What I find strange about the criticism above was the 'one year' thing, which just happened to be in his fifth year in Super and the first time he was a nailed on starter in one position (rather than covering midfield, for example). In other words, he had found his feet at this level and was driving around a championship team - really effectively too, - it's a requirement for a Super rugby champion.
I believe that puts him on the Sopoaga and Mo'unga pathway - I think the only two NZ players before him to be first five of a Super winning team without already being an AB.
Now, he may have been much more likely to be a Sopoaga than Mo'unga, especially when you look at the time it look him to really hit his stride in Super rugby, but Sopoaga is another who missed chances, but at least it was because they were bringing through Barrett, then McKenzie and Mo'unga.
For Plummer, he never got his chance, as it two things were apparent: (1) The coaches wanted Mo'unga back as they hung their hat on old heads, and (2) there seems to be anti Auckland bias in the coaching box.
I think 1 is far more true in this case than 2.
The ABs want to play with a running 10, and Plummer is simply not that.
The anti-Auckland bias is hard to ignore. That aside, you can set alight a backline if you can competently identify space and pass. The others can do the running if you're able to determine when it's best to kick, the type of kick, or pass to the correct recipient.
Totally agree. Since when does the 10 have to literally make all the running? DC was the unicorn. All other great AB 10s were very good on field generals first and foremost. There should be a place for a guy who can manage the team and allow his outsides space and time to do the biz
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This is revisionism on Plummer anyway. He is not a stay in the pocket first 5 or a kick-first player. He can do excellent things as first receiver taking it to contact or using short passes, and operated well on the loop for the Blues. He can certainly play close to the line with his size so I'm not sure what this 'isn't a running 1st V' thing is about. He's not Carter for sure, but no one is. Start from about 1:30 below to see what I mean.
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This is revisionism on Plummer anyway. He is not a stay in the pocket first 5 or a kick-first player. He can do excellent things as first receiver taking it to contact or using short passes, and operated well on the loop for the Blues. He can certainly play close to the line with his size so I'm not sure what this 'isn't a running 1st V' thing is about. He's not Carter for sure, but no one is. Start from about 1:30 below to see what I mean.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
This is revisionism on Plummer anyway. He is not a stay in the pocket first 5 or a kick-first player. He can do excellent things as first receiver taking it to contact or using short passes, and operated well on the loop for the Blues. He can certainly play close to the line with his size so I'm not sure what this 'isn't a running 1st V' thing is about. He's not Carter for sure, but no one is. Start from about 1:30 below to see what I mean.
Not by me it's not! He did all the basics well but had an eye for a gap when it presented itself. Much better than running about like a headless chook
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He's bloody near 100 kgs too.
Sorry, I went down the rabbit hole a bit here, this is him setting up a couple of tries in France.
And:
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This Plummer chat is like drunkenly pining for an ex girlfriend.
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This Plummer chat is like drunkenly pining for an ex girlfriend.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
This Pummer chat is like drunkenly pining for an ex girlfriend.
Hey! I resemble that remark.
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He's bloody near 100 kgs too.
Sorry, I went down the rabbit hole a bit here, this is him setting up a couple of tries in France.
And:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I do love the highlight reel of "one thing that happened once - replayed 5 times from 5 different angles".
(Not that I'm disputing the point, just... amused that was a highlight reel of one thing once, played 5 times from 5 different angles. Or maybe 4... I can't be arsed re-watching to check.) -
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
This Pummer chat is like drunkenly pining for an ex girlfriend.
Hey! I resemble that remark.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2026:
This Pummer chat is like drunkenly pining for an ex girlfriend.
Hey! I resemble that remark.
The drunk or the ex-girlfriend?
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
I do love the highlight reel of "one thing that happened once - replayed 5 times from 5 different angles".
(Not that I'm disputing the point, just... amused that was a highlight reel of one thing once, played 5 times from 5 different angles. Or maybe 4... I can't be arsed re-watching to check.)@Kruse said in All Blacks 2026:
I do love the highlight reel of "one thing that happened once - replayed 5 times from 5 different angles".
(Not that I'm disputing the point, just... amused that was a highlight reel of one thing once, played 5 times from 5 different angles. Or maybe 4... I can't be arsed re-watching to check.)ah that Plummer. Have I mentioned his angles?
