B&I Lions 2017
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I very much doubt anyone could coach the ABs', maybe for a period, while the current crop do what they do, and maybe in a lot of ways they are almost on auto-pilot a lot of the time knowing exactly what each has to do.
Prime example is how much knee jerk reactions are about who should play for the ABs and who shouldn't, they are able to identify the players that fit their systems and culture that probably aren't on most peoples immediate radar (look at ALB for a prime example) Ardie is another example because 'anyone' would have had him starting over Cane, but when Cane hasn't been there it became quite clear these coaches do in fact know what they are upto and what suits their plans best.
Marshall said this morning that even down to subs, when you have some of the best players on the planet in A Smith, Coles, BB, and v Argentina the coaches had the balls to pull 2 of them from the field, and then v Aus BB is off his game and they trust in their team to get him off too.
'Anyone' would have persevered with Smith & Coles, 'Anyone' would have persevered with BB v Aus too.
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I may be out of touch but I dont think anyone is actually upset by what Gats is saying. Or been touched on the thin part of their skin.
The Cooper comment is correct, and 90% of country would agree, and no different to what goldie, TJ, Nisbo etc have been saying on different broadcasts. Or AB players and management. As a former booer even I agree.
The coaching comment is wrong, but not offensive to anyone except current and recent coaching staff. It's basically saying NZ must produce such awesome players we can coach ourselves.
Of course we all know that the difference between 75% and 85 to 90% is absolutely massive at the top level and has been the result of a lot of people's efforts, including the coaching staff, who quite frankly impress the pants off me. But also people like Enoka, Tew, Buck Anderson, the senior leader group, the players, Gill etc etc
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I very much doubt anyone could coach the ABs', maybe for a period, while the current crop do what they do, and maybe in a lot of ways they are almost on auto-pilot a lot of the time knowing exactly what each has to do.
Prime example is how much knee jerk reactions are about who should play for the ABs and who shouldn't, they are able to identify the players that fit their systems and culture that probably aren't on most peoples immediate radar (look at ALB for a prime example) Ardie is another example because 'anyone' would have had him starting over Cane, but when Cane hasn't been there it became quite clear these coaches do in fact know what they are upto and what suits their plans best.
Marshall said this morning that even down to subs, when you have some of the best players on the planet in A Smith, Coles, BB, and v Argentina the coaches had the balls to pull 2 of them from the field, and then v Aus BB is off his game and they trust in their team to get him off too.
'Anyone' would have persevered with Smith & Coles, 'Anyone' would have persevered with BB v Aus too.
@taniwharugby It's very easy to look at a fully formed team and think "fuck, anyone could get wins out of that talent" which completely ignores the skill involved in putting that team together.
I reckon i could have won the world cup with Woodward's England side. It was brutally and simplistically effective. Rock solid set piece, great kicking game, great defensive unit, brutal forwards, just enough pace out wide to use if it was really, really on, and a points machine at 10. It's not hard to see how to get that team to a win. Especially if you don't give a fuck what it looks like.
But you have to credit Clive with assembling that set of players. It didn't fall in his lap, he built it from the ashes of one of the worst tours in history.
The "anyone could coach that lot" is a shit comment, and despite his recent history as a fucking whinger, i still expect better from Gats. His comments about kiwi fans is probably pretty close though. All Black fans aren't just made up of people from this parish, who (mostly) know a bit about the game, there are also a lot of massive piston wristed gibbons to whom the All Blacks are a dick measuring stick. Fuck those guys.
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@taniwharugby It's very easy to look at a fully formed team and think "fuck, anyone could get wins out of that talent" which completely ignores the skill involved in putting that team together.
I reckon i could have won the world cup with Woodward's England side. It was brutally and simplistically effective. Rock solid set piece, great kicking game, great defensive unit, brutal forwards, just enough pace out wide to use if it was really, really on, and a points machine at 10. It's not hard to see how to get that team to a win. Especially if you don't give a fuck what it looks like.
But you have to credit Clive with assembling that set of players. It didn't fall in his lap, he built it from the ashes of one of the worst tours in history.
The "anyone could coach that lot" is a shit comment, and despite his recent history as a fucking whinger, i still expect better from Gats. His comments about kiwi fans is probably pretty close though. All Black fans aren't just made up of people from this parish, who (mostly) know a bit about the game, there are also a lot of massive piston wristed gibbons to whom the All Blacks are a dick measuring stick. Fuck those guys.
@mariner4life that's pretty much what I was saying wasn't it?
Inherit great team, have great results for a bit, nek minut, injuries, retirements, holy shit I am way out of my depth.
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@mariner4life that's pretty much what I was saying wasn't it?
Inherit great team, have great results for a bit, nek minut, injuries, retirements, holy shit I am way out of my depth.
@taniwharugby yea i was agreeing with you! and expanding a little. you know, continuing the conversation
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@taniwharugby yea i was agreeing with you! and expanding a little. you know, continuing the conversation
@mariner4life can't always tell round this place
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Joe Schmidt rules out joining Lions set-up
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/1111/830801-schimdt-rules-out-joining-lions-set-up/
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Some team selections from the Times today.
Interestingly not much love for Hartley as hooker.
Owen Slot
Ben Kay
Stuart Barnes
Alex Lowe
John Westerby
Alistair Reid
ABs are 1/5 on with William Hill to win the series, Lions 7/2
Those teams don't strike much fear into me as an AB fan :slight_smile:
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Not sure of the logic behind having Sexton and Farrell at 10/12. Farrell is an excellent goal kicker but is that really needed with Sexton there, and the attack could really suffer.
A lot of selections of George North too - in his current state I don't know about that.
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Reid seems the most onto it...at least as far as loosies go. The rest, the forward packs look like an 8 selected to be walked over.
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@Bones Barnes and Lowe obviously don't know what a backrow should do.
I don't know why everyone is picking Sexton either - he's as frail as players come.
And Henshaw is much better than Farrell.
@antipodean Who would you select at 10 for the Lions?
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Not sure of the logic behind having Sexton and Farrell at 10/12. Farrell is an excellent goal kicker but is that really needed with Sexton there, and the attack could really suffer.
A lot of selections of George North too - in his current state I don't know about that.
@KiwiMurph the shit appears to be hitting the fan over North getting back on the field...apparently he passed the sideline tests, but had the Doctors had access to the video of him being out cold they would not have let him back on the field...how long was his nap?
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@antipodean Who would you select at 10 for the Lions?
@KiwiMurph I think the NH is really starting to develop players with a proper range of skills and without a player like Ford leading them around I don't think they'll play the total game necessary to win a series against the All Blacks.
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Latest on the coaching front has Borthwick, Farrell and Howley as assistants.
I'm hoping that the inclusion of Howley doesn't mean reversion to Warrenball.
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@antipodean Who would you select at 10 for the Lions?
@KiwiMurph said in B&I Lions 2017:
@antipodean Who would you select at 10 for the Lions?
It will greatly depend on the gameplan that Gatland goes for. If he reverts to mean then Sexton or Biggar will be at 10 - possibly Farrell as an outside bet. If he wants to play a more expansive style then I'd say Sexton is still in the box seat, marginally ahead of Ford. However, as has been said, Sexton is looking quite fragile these days so don't expect him to last the tour. Sexton is the more complete 10, able to play a variety of game plans to a high standard and his control of a game is superior to the others. The flair players are Russell and Ford but given Gatland's dislike for anything much more than "do as you're told" I don't expect them to be test contenders.
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There were also some pundit selections in the Sunday Times (firewalled I think) which included one from Stephen Jones who demonstrated his complete lack of selection ability having players out of position and a large contingent of Welsh.
Edit: found a post on another website with a photo of the selections
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@Tim said in B&I Lions 2017:
Oh yeah, anyone could do what Henry did. Sure.
That's why we've got every RWC:
@antipodean said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Tim said in B&I Lions 2017:
Oh yeah, anyone could do what Henry did. Sure.
That's why we've got every RWC:
So that's what the Bloodyslow Cup looks like. Always wondered if it was real.
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There were also some pundit selections in the Sunday Times (firewalled I think) which included one from Stephen Jones who demonstrated his complete lack of selection ability having players out of position and a large contingent of Welsh.
Edit: found a post on another website with a photo of the selections
All of those forward packs are fricking great. A little slow maybe, but not too bad & any combo with Itoje at 6 will be a staggeringly tough lineout to beat (ie 2 great locks & him jumping too).
On the plus side, given the schedule there is zero chance they wil be able to still pick their 1st choice 15 by the second test. But that 1st test could be tough.
