B&I Lions 2017
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
Has the squad size been confirmed?
Watching some of the games from the 2005 again, Woodward selected 4 no.10s in his large squad (Wilkinson, Jones, O'Gara and Hodgson). Gatland only took 2 (Farrell and Sexton) to Aust in 2013.
Just looking at the suggested Lions 23, neither Marler or Cole offers genuine impact off the bench, as both are more suited to start. Compare that to Crockett and Faumuina for the ABs.
Continuuation of hard scrummaging and trucking it up
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So maybe better to use Vunipola off the bench as Jones did.
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
So maybe better to use Vunipola off the bench as Jones did.
Not a silly idea.
Do you mean starting Faletau or putting an irishman in the boot and creating an all green 8,9,10? -
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
So maybe better to use Vunipola off the bench as Jones did.
Not a silly idea.
Do you mean starting Faletau or putting an irishman in the boot and creating an all green 8,9,10?@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
So maybe better to use Vunipola off the bench as Jones did.
Not a silly idea.
Do you mean starting Faletau or putting an irishman in the boot and creating an all green 8,9,10?He's referring to Mako. not Billy
Might be able to get more from him off the bench than starting.Not a bad shout. Start with McGrath and WP Nel. Then finish with Mako and Furlong?
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@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
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@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
You don't think Laulala has a shot of getting back in? I'd argue Laulala is a better alternative to Faumuina than Pulu is to TKB.
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@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
You don't think Laulala has a shot of getting back in? I'd argue Laulala is a better alternative to Faumuina than Pulu is to TKB.
@Unco said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Frye said in B&I Lions 2017:
Re: TKB. It will come down to whether All Blacks will be released for the Maori. Last time the Maori match was two weeks before the first test. This time it is one week.
He's already off and the Maori need a top halfback. My money is on Pulu getting the third spot.
In saying that I hope a couple of All Blacks get released.
I'm sure some players could still be released from the AB camp for that game. TKB is clearly in the top 3 halfbacks, and is currently the best on form. If TKB signing an overseas contract counts against him, then Faumuina shouldn't be picked either.
The injury to Weber is a problem for the Maori because he could have started that game. But as I've said before, the Chiefs may be missing a lot of Maori-elligible players if they're not allowed to play both games. I'm sure the coaches will know if what the deal is even if that info hasn't been released publically.
The difference with Faumuina is that he is clearly second best with daylight third. TKB doesn't have that luxury.
You don't think Laulala has a shot of getting back in? I'd argue Laulala is a better alternative to Faumuina than Pulu is to TKB.
I see what you're saying but as well as he is playing, TKB is still unlikley to make the 23.
Faumuina will certainly make the 23, he has 46 tests to his name. While Laulala's has 4 tests and his most memorable act in a black jersey was when Nic White ran past him to score a match winning try in 2015.I should reiterate I don't actually care which halfback is sitting in the stands for the All Blacks (whether it is Pulu, TKB or Sharky Robinson), but I'd prefer TKB was wearing 9 for the Maori.
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No argument Faumuina will make it in, I just don't think Pulu has a shot in hell, not unless TKB has pissed off Hansen (and it sure doesn't seem like he has, unlike Luatua). If TKB does miss out, I think it'd be more because they only selected two halfbacks.
But yeah, I'd like to see TKB in a Maori jersey, alongside a few other ABs and AB hopefuls. Hoping for Cruden or ALB is probably a bit too much but I don't see why DMac, Elliot Dixon or Rieko Ioane (assuming they all make it) couldn't be released. I watched the 2005 Maori vs Lions game last night and one of the coolest parts, aside from the win, was seeing Hayman, Gibbes, Holah, Weepu, MacDonald, Spencer (though he was out of the ABs by then), Rico Gear and McAlister all in there.
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No argument Faumuina will make it in, I just don't think Pulu has a shot in hell, not unless TKB has pissed off Hansen (and it sure doesn't seem like he has, unlike Luatua). If TKB does miss out, I think it'd be more because they only selected two halfbacks.
But yeah, I'd like to see TKB in a Maori jersey, alongside a few other ABs and AB hopefuls. Hoping for Cruden or ALB is probably a bit too much but I don't see why DMac, Elliot Dixon or Rieko Ioane (assuming they all make it) couldn't be released. I watched the 2005 Maori vs Lions game last night and one of the coolest parts, aside from the win, was seeing Hayman, Gibbes, Holah, Weepu, MacDonald, Spencer (though he was out of the ABs by then), Rico Gear and McAlister all in there.
@Unco No ALB or DLB for the Maori.
I'd look at the Maori game in another way and use it to strike an early blow against the Lions like the Maori did in 2005. OK, it's possible that the Blues, Crusaders or Highlanders could win their games but you would think that the Lions shadow test XV will start against the Maori.
So that means selecting the strongest possible team including some ABs.
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Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Not sure who those pundits are, but it's an interesting team....4 Welsh, 1 Scot, 6 English and 4 Irish.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/definitive-lions-xv-experts-picked-12803029
Here's my take
B&I Lions XV
15 Stuart Hogg
14 George North
13 Jonathan Joseph
12 Owen Farrell
11 Liam Williams
10 George Ford
9 Rhys Webb1 Mako Vunipola
2 Ken Owens
3 Tadhg Furlong
4 AW Jones
5 Maro Itoje
6 Ross Moriarty
7 Sam Warburton
8 Billy VunipolaReplacements:
Joe Marler, Jamie George, Dan Cole, Joe Launchbury, Justin Tipuric
Connor Murray, Elliot Daly, Leigh Halfpenny@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
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@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
Just because his mum can't spell doesn't mean we should dumb down as well
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@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
Just because his mum can't spell doesn't mean we should dumb down as well
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
Composite Lions XV, from the selections of 20 leading pundits, created by the Western Mail.
Connor Murray.
Conor Murray.
Just because his mum can't spell doesn't mean we should dumb down as well
Agreed. Although calling Mike his mum is crossing the line. He is Welsh after all. They're sensitive souls....
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How very prescient of them considering our guys are only just winding up and lots can happen in Super rugby.
They obviously haven't been watching the Super games as they have excluded one of the standout players so far in TKB. A 9 that will be way more up to speed on AB systems than Pulu. Pulu will be 4th in order should injuries happen.
SBW to make a comeback attempt yet as well at the possible expense of Moala.
As for the Taufua over Dixon call? Can't see that happening (injuries aside)
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
How very prescient of them considering our guys are only just winding up and lots can happen in Super rugby.
They obviously haven't been watching the Super games as they have excluded one of the standout players so far in TKB. A 9 that will be way more up to speed on AB systems than Pulu. Pulu will be 4th in order should injuries happen.
SBW to make a comeback attempt yet as well at the possible expense of Moala.
As for the Taufua over Dixon call? Can't see that happening (injuries aside)
Hard to pick an ABs squad without knowing how many they're going to name or what positions. BUT,..
- I don't really see Tu'ungafasi being ahead of Laulala as a tighthead and certainly several on the loosehead side most notably Hames and Manu. They may well just pick 4 props and have two others training with them.
1a. If Harris comes back strongly he'd be a reasonable shot over Coltman. I think he's due back this month isn't he?
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Locks - Romano and Tuipolotu both under a bit of pressure from Barrett and Bird IMO.
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Loosie mix looks wrong - don't see Taufua as more than an outside chance, doubtful they'll pick three opensides, and Messam may be in the equation (assume he's available?) - as might Luke Whitelock!!!
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Halfback - TKB ahead of Pulu
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Sopoaga added to the first fives
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Unless he's injured it will surprise me not to see SBW in for Moala.
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I don't really see the point of DMac - a third fullback - in this selection. I'd expect to see Ioane, Naholo or even Tamanivalu/Moala instead.
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A warm-up game against Samoa seems to be a real possibility now. So does Hansen name a large squad before this game or refine the squad after they play?
Thinking back to 2005 and the Fiji game, Anesi came off the bench for his one and only test cap but wasn't involved in the Lions series. Tuiali’I didn't make the final cut either. That AB side also didn't include any players involved in the Maori-Lions game the following night so only 24 players were named.
A Friday June 16 date could again eliminate some Highlanders players, and some Maori players, assuming a handful are released if they aren't involved in the AB match-day 23. As it would be an official test match you couldn't give all the squad some time on the field. So it's better to give other members of the squad a game in those other fixtures than none at all for 2 weeks.
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Given the constantly shifting sands with injuries, form and new players coming through maybe it is better at this stage to list those players that are probably in the frame. In some areas the net may be cast a little wider in case of a run of late injuries to incumbents.
Props: Franks, Faumuina, Moody, Crockett, Tu’ungafasi, Hames, Laulala, Manu
Hookers: Coles, Taylor, Coltman, Elliott, Harris
Locks: Retallick, Whitelock, Romano, Tuipulotu, Barrett, Bird
Loosies; Kaino, Cane, Savea, Dixon, Squire, Read, Todd, Taufua, Messam, Douglas, Whitelock
Halfbacks: Smith, TJP, Pulu, TKB
10s: Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga
Midfielders: Crotty, Fekitoa, ALB, Moala, SBW, Proctor, Laumape, Buckman, Ioane, Tamanivalu
Outside backs: Savea, NMS, Smith, Dagg, DMac, Naholo, Aso -
Given the constantly shifting sands with injuries, form and new players coming through maybe it is better at this stage to list those players that are probably in the frame. In some areas the net may be cast a little wider in case of a run of late injuries to incumbents.
Props: Franks, Faumuina, Moody, Crockett, Tu’ungafasi, Hames, Laulala, Manu
Hookers: Coles, Taylor, Coltman, Elliott, Harris
Locks: Retallick, Whitelock, Romano, Tuipulotu, Barrett, Bird
Loosies; Kaino, Cane, Savea, Dixon, Squire, Read, Todd, Taufua, Messam, Douglas, Whitelock
Halfbacks: Smith, TJP, Pulu, TKB
10s: Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga
Midfielders: Crotty, Fekitoa, ALB, Moala, SBW, Proctor, Laumape, Buckman, Ioane, Tamanivalu
Outside backs: Savea, NMS, Smith, Dagg, DMac, Naholo, Aso -
@Crucial Harris can't be too far away from playing and he's ahead of Coltman in the pecking order.
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Given the constantly shifting sands with injuries, form and new players coming through maybe it is better at this stage to list those players that are probably in the frame. In some areas the net may be cast a little wider in case of a run of late injuries to incumbents.
Props: Franks, Faumuina, Moody, Crockett, Tu’ungafasi, Hames, Laulala, Manu
Hookers: Coles, Taylor, Coltman, Elliott, Harris
Locks: Retallick, Whitelock, Romano, Tuipulotu, Barrett, Bird
Loosies; Kaino, Cane, Savea, Dixon, Squire, Read, Todd, Taufua, Messam, Douglas, Whitelock
Halfbacks: Smith, TJP, Pulu, TKB
10s: Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga
Midfielders: Crotty, Fekitoa, ALB, Moala, SBW, Proctor, Laumape, Buckman, Ioane, Tamanivalu
Outside backs: Savea, NMS, Smith, Dagg, DMac, Naholo, Aso@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
Hookers: Coles, Taylor, Coltman, Elliott, Harris
Do you reckon Elliott is actually in the frame? I reckon he's been clearly and repeatedly blackballed. Surely Parsons (god help us) is more in the frame?
