B&I Lions 2017
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I'm not sure that'd work in rugby would it? The defensive paterns are so much more set because of the far higher amount of set piece & semi set piece ball that the centres swapping around on sides would be a nightmare. 12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage...
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
I'm not sure that'd work in rugby would it? The defensive paterns are so much more set because of the far higher amount of set piece & semi set piece ball that the centres swapping around on sides would be a nightmare. 12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage...
I recall the convicts using left and right centres some time ago. It was the mention of it above that I queried as I don't think anyone uses it in the modern game. Would be hard work on defence to have to keep changing and on attack you lose having a centre-threequarter to distribute to the outsides.
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
I'm not sure that'd work in rugby would it? The defensive paterns are so much more set because of the far higher amount of set piece & semi set piece ball that the centres swapping around on sides would be a nightmare. 12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage...
I recall the convicts using left and right centres some time ago. It was the mention of it above that I queried as I don't think anyone uses it in the modern game. Would be hard work on defence to have to keep changing and on attack you lose having a centre-threequarter to distribute to the outsides.
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Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
I think it sort of becomes an option if you have 2 identical centres - eg Teo & Roberts, which is why I think Aussie did it (?) they often just played 2 interchangeable lumps rather than a 2nd five & a centre.
Wouldn't work with Joseph as he's an outside should gas man, you want him at 13 or nowhere. Teo for sure.
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
@MiketheSnow said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
Yeah, I feel like Dan Herbert used to play left & right, but it seems a terrible idea
That seems about the time I was thinking as well.
I was hoping @MiketheSnow would come back and explain his comment because it has me stumped
Just an idea. Something different to accommodate the personnel and bring something different to the mix.
If Farrell does go to 10 and Te'o has a good lead in then he'll play 12 and Joseph will play 13.
If not, then Gatland will have to accommodate Joseph and J Davies.
J Davies has a good kicking game so could go to 12, but his distribution is average off his left hand.
So left and right could work.
Who knows?
If his distribution is average off one hand he shouldn't be playing in the centres full stop. (or playing at this level)
It's not difficult to train yourself to pass off both hands FFS.
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Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8. It weakens them most because they could have started Billy & then subbed on Toby at 50 minutes & thats a huge double punch. But they still have one of the top 5 8's in world rugby.
Its not like us with Read where we would go from worlds best 8 to worlds 12th best 8. They go from 2nd to 3rd or 4th.
I also think Haskell offers a massive impact off the bench. So I'm not sold its a cripling loss. Sexton or Farrell would be far worse.
Its more of a worry in that there's still a round to go & then half a dozen warm up games. Billy won't be their only starter missing in a few weeks time.
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@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8. It weakens them most because they could have started Billy & then subbed on Toby at 50 minutes & thats a huge double punch. But they still have one of the top 5 8's in world rugby.
Its not like us with Read where we would go from worlds best 8 to worlds 12th best 8. They go from 2nd to 3rd or 4th.
I also think Haskell offers a massive impact off the bench. So I'm not sold its a cripling loss. Sexton or Farrell would be far worse.
Its more of a worry in that there's still a round to go & then half a dozen warm up games. Billy won't be their only starter missing in a few weeks time.
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8.
Yeah, I think the issue is a lack of form from Falatau, although I've heard there have been some good signs lately?
But yes, I agree IMO Sexton and Farrell would be big losses. However, it's almost like a foregone conclusion they'll lose Sexton due to being made of glass. It'll be a very interesting series if he can stay fit.
They've got so many class goal kickers over there so they could lose both and still have a couple of 84% goal kickers in.
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@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Milk said in B&I Lions 2017:
Reading rugby forums up till now, Billy was the player people up North were saying they couldn't afford to lose so this must be a big blow.
Not sure about, Toby Falatau is a superb 8.
Yeah, I think the issue is a lack of form from Falatau, although I've heard there have been some good signs lately?
But yes, I agree IMO Sexton and Farrell would be big losses. However, it's almost like a foregone conclusion they'll lose Sexton due to being made of glass. It'll be a very interesting series if he can stay fit.
They've got so many class goal kickers over there so they could lose both and still have a couple of 84% goal kickers in.
Yep, Toby was fantastic a couple of weeks back for Bath, hatrick & so on. He's coming right at the right time. the injury timing that screwed his 6 nations means he's not as broken as most
The issue with Farrell & Sexton is that's their 10& 12 & they don't have a distributing 12 as back up. So they lose Sexton they probably move Farrell in & change the game plan, they lose Farrell they play a smasher & change the game plan. So when they spend 4 weeks practicing that way & Sexton gets creamed by Brodie 10 minutes into the first test thats the series.
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Billy Vunipola's the first bloke on the England and Lions team sheet for me (or would have been). Has been massively important over the last two seasons and England/Saracens game-plan is often built around him. Also, isn't someone you'd sub off after 50 minutes these days.
That said, it's not the end of the world, there are always plenty of injuries in the lead up to (and during) Lions tours and Falatau is a decent enough player who is used to working with Gatland. There's still a decent back row in there somewhere.
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Billy Vunipola's the first bloke on the England and Lions team sheet for me (or would have been). Has been massively important over the last two seasons and England/Saracens game-plan is often built around him. Also, isn't someone you'd sub off after 50 minutes these days.
That said, it's not the end of the world, there are always plenty of injuries in the lead up to (and during) Lions tours and Falatau is a decent enough player who is used to working with Gatland. There's still a decent back row in there somewhere.
Sure they could. At very least they could field a combo of O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander who know each other a bit.
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Sure they could. At very least they could field a combo of O'Mahony, O'Brien and Stander who know each other a bit.
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
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@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
Yeah you're right. At the very least Warburton, Tipuric and Faletau....
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bit of a bizaare article....I don't recall the NZ Public 'slamming the Lions' for selecting him?
Never heard of the author, but appears he is form up this way, and has other odd opinions on sports topics
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503448&objectid=11857124
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Is the Northern Advocate like the Betoota, just not as funny?
How strong is the lure of the Silver Fern it can attract four-year-olds to migrate? I think NASA should study this, it could make space travel much faster. Perhaps we've been witnessing the event horizon for decades without knowing it!
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Is the Northern Advocate like the Betoota, just not as funny?
How strong is the lure of the Silver Fern it can attract four-year-olds to migrate? I think NASA should study this, it could make space travel much faster. Perhaps we've been witnessing the event horizon for decades without knowing it!
@antipodean alas, no, it is an off-shoot of NZH, so tries to pass itself of as serious journalism
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@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
@Margin_Walker said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Pot-Hale
Nah, Warburton, Tipuric, Falatau. With Moriarty on the bench.....
In all seriousness I'd go Stander, Warburton, Falatau , but plenty of rugby to be played between now and the tests. Time for anyone on the plane to make a case for themselves and no doubt for others to pick up knocks.
I do think that one thing the Lions need to do is keep their eyes open for players that may flourish beyond original expectations and plans.
We continually see average NZ players that go north and become effective way beyond their performances at home. I can't write this off entirely to a 'lower standard' and have to think there is a big element of suiting the detail on the way the game is played.
Take Jimmy Gopperth as an example. In NZ he never cracked the big time because in a game at speed he didn't quite have that time on the ball or speed of thinking and would stand a fraction too deep. The expectations in the northern game are different and suit his style. His skills are able to shine instead.
For the Lions there will likely be guys who find that instead of having to play the way they always do to be in tune with their team they relish being dragged into a faster pace. They may be able to read things instinctively etc. For a forward, maybe not having to pile into every ruck or have prolonged scrum battles frees up their energy to play more dynamically.
These are the type of players that make longer tours interesting. They have a chance to work things out and grow their game. A chance you don't get with one off tests. -
That last bit:
**"Answer this: what exactly can be done about it anyway? Do we have a blanket rule saying you can only play for the country you're born in?
That would help out the Pacific nations but because it would be a detriment to the likes of New Zealand and England, it won't happen."**
it wouldn't help Samoa, most of their players are NZ born.
