The Silver Fern

@Bovidae Pretty much saved me posting.

I too was at the game and it was magnificent sporting occasion. My brother had some sports ears and it was very obvious that while Poite was telling the Lions what they should do there were no repercussions when they totally ignored him.

Everyone agrees we dominated the first half. Gatland clearly got his troops together and said you've played shit - they're bullying you but your still in this and can steal it. Stop trying to play the AB's at their game and slow the game down and wait for the penalties to come. The AB's are over eager and the mistakes will come.
and come they did - right from the kick off. That penalty to get them to within three - you could see the belief grow in the Lions. Then AB's butchered another try and Kaino was (rightly IMO) binned and we lost the plot a bit.

Meanwhile Roundtree? was on the field every stoppage coaching the players chipping away at the ref - it was fucking annoying but quite effective. He, Gatland and Itoje have faces that just cry out to be slapped.

You could see the Lions stealing it becoming more real from about 20 minutes out so the end result was no real surprise - albeit deeply unsatisfying.

As for the ground itself. Monumental experience Worth every cent all 50,000 of them. I've read a bit about how the Lions fans out-passioned our support and we have to learn from them. Well while that is true I think by the 3rd test we Kiwi's had learned and certainly in my part of the ground the Lions were no more vocal than the locals. Every time a Lions chant went up or we felt the AB's needed our support the crowd were up to it. It took many cleansing ales and until about 3am before I got my voice back.

So while it feels like a series lost, we have an opportunity to learn from this. We're not as good as we thought we were, but we're still pretty good and unlike some I think Hansen will take a lot out of this and we will be all the better for it come Japan 2019.

Great night, great test shit result

@synicbast I was going to post that Kimber article - and written by an Aussie.

Says it all really and distills perfectly the essence of supporting NZ.

My memories of NZ test go back a bit further than yours. I can remember our seventh ever victory - fittingly against India away and recall that commentators saying we were fighting it out to avoid the wooden spoon. I remember Turners heroics in the drawn series in the Windies, the match in Nottingham in 73 which we should/coulda won and I listened on the radio at school (thanks to a cricketing tragic geography teacher who knew beating Oz for the first time was way more important than population studies) as Turner Collinge and the Hadlees took us to victory.

However it is ironic and incredibly apt for a Kiwi supporter that the match that really got me hooked on test cricket is just one in a long line of glorious battles to no affect. I sat glued to the TV and watched every ball as Collinge and Hastings set a world record 151 10th wicket stand. Glorious stuff but apart from the stat meaningless as we lost the series having been hammered in the earlier test.

Until yesterday that was pretty much summed it up for me and NZ cricket. Low expectations that too often were proven to nevertheless be unrealistically high. Favourite players like Burgess and Coney that were quirky grafters rather than stars. Magnificent guns blazing losing efforts like Astles double - summed up by 2019 at Lords. Don't hope coz like the last tour of Aussie it'll just break your heart. We're in the Boxing Day test - oh... Fuck!

Yesterday changed all that. I've always loved my cricket - more than any other sport TBH and Thursday morning paid me back in spades for over 50 years of suffering and torment. I watched till midnight and again from just before 4. I coudn't log on to the Fern as I couldn't tear my eyes away from the screen. Dare I hope. We'll get there in 5's boys. 50 to go - sti;ll time for a collapse 45 fuck my blood pressure. 20 Surely we've got this now. Then it changed to I want these two to be there at the end and then screaming my head off alone in a cold dark wintry house. Who gives a fuck WE WON.

It's not a story of redemption but it is the culmination of a journey that even in the bad times has been a delight but fuck winning feels so much better than gallant defeats. Thanks guys for everything.

@mencey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:

We have 3 years to get this right.

Sorry but that attitude is a big part of what is wrong with NZ Rugby. We have 6 days to get this right.

Winning 80+% of all our tests, not folding like overcooked pasta and living up to the legacy of 125 years of AB dominance are way more important than a tournament every four years.

@hooroo Only what is in the media but I do have a few immediate thoughts.

• lt's being touted as a free stadium - but its not going to be free. At a minimum I would anticipate that the private investors would want the land gifted to them. That land being Bledisloe Wharf. I guess that this implicitly accepts that the proposal pre 2011 was never going to work as there was insufficient space

• PoA are in the very early stages of examining alternative sites for the port location, but any relocation is decades away. Losing Bledisloe at this stage is not commercially viable

• More commercial realities. Moving the port (probably to Firth of Thames) will cost shit loads. the cost-offset is the development of the existing port to unlock its land value. Plonking a stadium down wastes this land value effectively making the port relocation more expensive.

• A stadium is a poor use of such a prime site. As I have said before - there's a reason renders of stadia are always night shots with stands brilliantly lit up a people spilling out into the surrounding area. The reality is that during the day every one of them is effectively and blank walled citadel 13 stories high with no activity or street level engagement.

• It appears there has been an attempt to mitigate the above by part sinking it into the harbour. LMFAO way to dramatically increase costs. I can't imagine the millions of litres of water that will continually have to be pumped away but when Britomart was going to be 5 levels deep it was an astronomical figure.

• By all means move the port and develop the land - at some point in the future, but IMO such a development should be a combination of public space and residential. This both by the "private investors" and Goff just screams vanity project. We have a history of doing things like this on the cheap. Just what Akl needs a cheap plastic box right on our foreshore that will become effectively an industrial wasteland for 90% of the time. If there is a real desire to move away from EP then a proper site should be identified and developed. The whole perceived need is actually down to a ham=-fisted attempt to rationalise Akl's sporting venues and gather public support through a smoke and mirrors conceptualisation of something that would turn out far different to the pretty pictures Granny Ferald publishes every 6 mths or so

After decades of supporting NZ cricket sides through thick and even thicker these last few years have been revelatory.

So pleased for the team to have a tangible trophy to solidify their reputation as NZ's greatest ever side.

On and off the field they make you proud to be a supporter. They epitomise everything that we like to think is good about the Kiwi psyche. Humble, hard working, sense of humour, determined and clearly a bunch of mates digging deep for each other. Was great to see when the dressing room erupted that the whole squad were all involved.

Lot's of previous cricketers for NZ and a few sides have also played above themselves - this one has had the advantage of consistent selection and more than a few world class players. No more the plucky losers that the rest of the world can condescendingly look down on - WE ARE THE FUCKING WORLD CHAMPIONS!

Great match in the world. Full dues too to the Indian's for contributing in full with skill and spirit to what has been a momentous occasion for NZ.

@Catogrande said in Foster must go:

Reason is the stopped clock of rugby journalism. By default he will be right once every 24 times

or twice unless digital

I caught a bus to RWC Final in 2011 and sat in front of Reason and Deaker.

Imagine the most loud mouthed, out of touch, reactionary, bigoted, smug old fucktards that you can. Then double down. Twice.

This wasn't to an audience or as click bait. This was who they were. I think people give them too much credit as wind up merchants. No matter how outrageous their Mr Angry stuff I reckon it's who they truly are. Oh and they didn't have a clue about the rules of the game - and all poly players are thick!

It has been interesting to read this thread from beginning to end in one go.

Team announced: Thank Fark. That really is our best team apart from Retallick. The Wobblies are in for a world of hurt.

Post Game: Hanson's shit. Team's shit. Tactics shit. Captain Shit. Wallabies brilliant. We are doomed. Worst loss ever. We need to bring in more Blues/Crusaders (delete depending on your provincial bias).

The only bit I really agree with is the Wallabies were brilliant. The shame of the game for me is that we really didn't see enough IMO to determine if the two experiments held any promise although I agree Smith looked ponderous. I'm also struggling to remember when tandem open sides has ever worked for us. To be fair Hanson came out against the idea but I guess Savea's form and the lack of bona-fide 6's made it worth a go. I didn't read too many complaining about it earlier in the week. As such I think it is worth persevering with. We know what the other options at blindside are.

The one player I thinks has well over-stayed his welcome is Franks.

It confirmed what I have thought for the last 4 years; Retallick is our most important player. When he went down against the Boks I feared our RWC defence was in tatters.

We looked much better when we kept hold of the pill instead of aimlessly hoofing it downtown. I think we created at least two dead cert tries if the 15th man had been there to take the final pass.

How good were Aussie? Very, very good. How good did we allow them to be? Too friggin good...

@NTA said in Bledisloe 2:

As for the conduct in the coaches box: I believe I've said before that if Shag & Co want to sit there like they've been forced to attend their least favourite cousin's wedding, they're more than welcome.

Cheika may go OTT but that's his business. You may think he looks like a dick doing it, and that's your business.

I just wonder how effective he can be as a coach when he comes across as the worst sort of rabid one-eyed fan.

I mean I have mates (I know, I know) who act like Chieka does - histrionically questioning every decision as if it was the fifth trumpet of the apocalypse that sounded rather than a refs whistle.

Admire their passion but don't listen to a word they say and occasionally have to simply tell them to shut the fuck up!

That's fine with your drinking buddy - but your coach?

You don't have to sit there sphinx like as Shag does - but I know who comes across more like someone who has an opinion I might actually care to hear

@Chris-B It's not so much the losses as the issues around them. The brainless rugby, inability to cope with pressure, ill discipline.

Given Razor was being pumped up big time by the media and a large contingent of fans the reluctance to implement change is massively disappointing.

The only really unexpected results were Arg1 and last weekend, but they were dire, and we were lulled into believing they would be a thing of the past. Also, if you are talking fine margins, it does swing both ways. We could be looking at a season record to date of W3 L5.

Personally, I find the constant campaigning to select overseas based players and effectively getting his excuses in early (before he even started in the role) a massive irritant. I don't want an AB coach to be a whingeing baitch.

A lot has been said today about BJ especially the way he answered the SOS in 71. What hasn’t really been mentioned is how unprepared he was. 24 hours notice. Playing club and a bit of low level rep rugby. Out of position. Against arguably the best side to ever tour NZ. A side which had the wood on us. He was 1.91 and 95 kg FFS Yet he never hesitated. Even though he must have known there was a real risk he would be humiliated

The word legend is bandied around a lot nowadays generally IMO unearned and pure hyperbole. I honestly struggle to think of anyone who has contributed more to NZ rugby than BJ Lochore. He wasn’t the best #8 we’ve ever had. Possibly not the best Captain. Again possibly not the best Coach. But he was in the top 2-3 in every category. No one else comes close to that achievement.

I may have been told last November by someone who may be a world cup winning 10 and current selector that Bridge was almost certainly going to Japan and that it might be a season too far for a certain long serving prop. Allegedly...

That conversation which I never did get around to writing up (too late now) suggests that the TWM actually have been working to a plan and may even know what they're doing; hard though it is to imagine that they could do a better job than the collective wisdom of The Fern.

I've barely been on here since I retired on 30th April.

As a parting shot I stupidly won us a brand new business opportunity and have hung around as my fingerprints were all over the Tender document. As a result I am busier than ever although the upside is it's interesting and I don't have staff or all the other daily grind and I fo into the office about once a fortnight.

My name is mud at home though as were supposed to be sailing the Med in June and renting a villa in Italy in July...

I did get Kirwan's patreon msg thanks but until now the firewall wouldn't let me visit newly registered domains.

So whose been banned / gone off in a huff in my absence?

@jegga Imagine the headlines "I COULD HAVE DROWNED"

@virgil Personally doesn't work that way for me. I gave up caring about the Warriors and Blues a decade ago. Unfortunately I was smitten with the cricket bug in my youth and have carried a candle for NZ Cricket ever since.

Its a lovelorn liaison though as she's a feckless temptress. Plays me along just enough to keep me interested and then consistently leaves me disappointed and wanting more out of the relationship - like a teenage virgin its all excitement, expectation, the promise of fulfilment and ultimately lots of disappointing nights in front of the TV.

Its been a life-long love affair though and I dare say I will carry it on till I go to my grave. There's no fool like an old fool.

I see NZ has gone back to blooding a lot of inexperienced players against a Tier 2 nation

the whole idea that an AB team needs motivating is more than slightly ludicrous.

OK Boys gather round, I know it's the final of Celebrity Washing Your Car this weekend but we have a game of rugby on and South Africa have been saying really mean things about us. So could you just watch it later and give them hell? and Jordie no texting everyone who's been eliminated in the chamois off this time. It wasn't funny!

That side to me looks weaker than the one for the first test and seems chosen on hype and hope rather than reason (not Mark)

@No-Quarter said in Americas Cup:

I'm pretty ignorant to racing but can of the experts on here explain what happened the last time around? Seemed like we had the faster boat to get to 8-1, they made a "modification" and suddenly they had a significantly faster boat. I don't think I've ever read a reasonable explanation for that?

To elaborate on Virgil's succinct summation:

There are actually two schools of thought

The most common explanation here in NZ is that ETNZ were short of money so Oracle offered them some cash in return for an extra lay day, which Dalton gratefully accepted because ETNZ was seriously underfunded and no one could see any way back from 8-1.
Oracle then put 40 boatbuilders from the Warkworth company involved in the development of ETNZ's boat on a plane to SF where they worked solidly for 72 hours to improve the Oracle boat.
None of the above is contested by Oracle. The kiwi cheating argument is based around bribing the Warkworth crew to divulge ETNZ's IP

The OR counter-argument is that the two boats had similar speeds but ETNZ were sailing better and that the fundamental change to get them back into the game was the replacing of Kotsciezki as tactician by Ainslie which allowed OR to improve their sailing performance and hence take out the series and that all the cheating allegations are just sour grapes.

OR's position is actually pretty popular with neutrals mainly because unfortunately their an awful lot of Kiwi ferals out in the sailing blogosphere who have pretty shameful chips on their shoulders and who have already started with the triumphalism.

Personally I find OR's argument a little suspicious because while I think Ainslie did make a hell of a difference pre the break in racing OR's big issue was they couldn't consistently stay up on their foils but after it they had no issues. It is possible this was all to do with Ainslie and more experience foiling but hey why the Warkworth "traitors" then.

With hindsight I think there were two critical decisions - gifting OR the extra time to improve their boat and also covering their boat in the race that ran out of wind. If you recall we could have won the Cup but for a race in which we were minutes ahead being called off because it ran out of time. OR through in a series of tacks which we covered (which is match racing 101) however these tacks slowed the race down. What we should have done is trusted our boat speed, ignored OR and dragged for the line. All easy after the event huh.

Whatever it does make me nervous still about what rabbits OR can pull out of the hat in the next 5 days.

Or as Virg says - cheating fuckers

Not one. Not a single fucking one of the Auckland pistonwristedgibbons who have given me heaps about Harbour over the years has fronted.

Almost as pathetic as their team. Almost.......

@Frye @JK Yeah harbourrugby died the death about 4 years ago

On that performance Akl would struggle in Heartland rugby and that's a genuine observation not gloating. They really were poor. Boys against men stuff

There was quite a lot of "the Lion's aren't going to win again on tour" chatter after the Blues match.

That isn't holding ourselves to a higher standard or passion for the game.

It's arrogant. It's condescending and it's also bullshit.

The British press talks a lot about every NZer being an expert on rugby and every granny being able to talk authoritatively about the workings of the front row. Which is as much crap about the "it's like Britain in the 50's" twaddle.

Rugby is our national sport so yeah its more popularly followed than in Britain (or pretty much anywhere else), but this forum can make you forget how little the average Kiwi actually knows about the game. Even here there are many (myself included) who confess we don't follow rugby as closely as we once did.

Couple the above with serious lashings of hubris and inferiority complex and yeah arrogant seems fairly accurate.

and BTW if everyone was fit I wouldn't have a tourist in my starting AB side either