The Silver Fern

Sitting in a pub in Dubrovnik surrounded by South Africans, they’re reactions have been brilliant

Hi everyone, just got put onto this forum by a work colleague here in Dunedin. Great to see people actually talk about this stuff, been a long time sufferer relying on the Roar for rugby chat.

Seems like it might be another season of hurt unless everyone can stay 100% fit. 10 and lock remain massive issues, particularly if Holland is out on All Black duty. Shoe horning Haig in seems like a waste. Will be interesting to see who the captain is

This AUSNZXV centre pairing has got to go down as one of the worst defensive centre combos ever

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

I don't see the hype around Dalton.

I do.

He's fast. 8 tries for the All Blacks and one of the quickest forwards around in supporting the ball carrier and reaching the breakdown.

He combines size with athleticism: 193cm and 113 kgs.

His work at the breakdown is excellent. Only Ardie Savea among NZ Players has achieved more turnovers in Super Rugby since 2020.

His work rate is superb. He regularly makes 20+ tackles a game and has made as many as 28.

He is consistent and in good form. He topped TSF poll of Blues MVP this year.

Excellent post.

What does Jacobsen bring to the table that Papalii doesn’t have ?

( and please, no one mention the concrete shoulder that no one has ever seen at test level )

My hot take is that Jacobsen shouldn't be the guy making way for Papali'i.

Overall he was easily the best Chiefs loose forward this season and basically carried the team. He has a good overall game, experience and is tough

Lakai, Kirifi, and Sititi are all sub standard test cleaners and all three should not be in the squad at anyone time. One of these guys should not be there.

When it comes to carry game they have struggled against big sides.

Kirifi won zero turnovers against France and Lio-Willie actually did a better job in this area.

With Lakai, Kirifi, Sititi, and Savea in the squad we have too many guys who view securing the attacking breakdown as a secondary priority. They all struggle to shift bigger bodies compared to Papali'i and Jacobson.

Jacobson is the only guy in the squad who combines work rate and attacking breakdown ability. Finau is techincally very good but he has a low workrate. Parker also has a low workrate.

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

I don't see the hype around Dalton.

I do.

He's fast. 8 tries for the All Blacks and one of the quickest forwards around in supporting the ball carrier and reaching the breakdown.

He combines size with athleticism: 193cm and 113 kgs.

His work at the breakdown is excellent. Only Ardie Savea among NZ Players has achieved more turnovers in Super Rugby since 2020.

His work rate is superb. He regularly makes 20+ tackles a game and has made as many as 28.

He is consistent and in good form. He topped TSF poll of Blues MVP this year.

Excellent post.

What does Jacobsen bring to the table that Papalii doesn’t have ?

( and please, no one mention the concrete shoulder that no one has ever seen at test level )

My hot take is that Jacobsen shouldn't be the guy making way for Papali'i.

Overall he was easily the best Chiefs loose forward this season and basically carried the team. He has a good overall game, experience and is tough

Lakai, Kirifi, and Sititi are all sub standard test cleaners and all three should not be in the squad at anyone time. One of these guys should not be there.

When it comes to carry game they have struggled against big sides.

Kirifi won zero turnovers against France and Lio-Willie actually did a better job in this area.

With Lakai, Kirifi, Sititi, and Savea in the squad we have too many guys who view securing the attacking breakdown as a secondary priority. They all struggle to shift bigger bodies compared to Papali'i and Jacobson.

Jacobson is the only guy in the squad who combines work rate and attacking breakdown ability. Finau is techincally very good but he has a low workrate. Parker also has a low workrate.

It makes a lot more sense to dump Kirifi for Papali’I

@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

I have no real issues with that starting backline (it picks itself)

Disagree. For all the ALB hate by some on here, the fact that Reece continues to be selected is more of a problem. It's not like he has been scoring tries for fun for the ABs and running sideways or making ineffective pick and goes doesn't work at test level. FFS give Narawa an opportunity.

Though it doesn’t help that Reece has continually out performed other NZ wingers during Super Rugby. If you took last super rugby season in isolation, you’d pick Reece to start on one wing. The chiefs wingers during the final were completely out classed

@W32 said in Boks v Wobblies I:

Joe Schmidt seems to be living on pre Farrell Ireland reputation.. hasn’t added much to any team he’s been involved with since then, and Ireland have been better under Farrell. A bit like Plumtree. Posers

Say it again

@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@jimmyb Hoskins Sotutu, Akira Ioane, Dalton Papalii, Ruben Love, Timoci Tavatavanawai. All very high ceiling players.

I'd love to see Kyle Preston and Leroy Carter given game time too.

Don’t be silly with Sotutu and Ioane. Dalton has and will get chances but has also reasonably fallen down the pecking order.

Love and Tavatavanawai are and will be getting game time. Robertson has brought them into the squad and is giving them exposure at a sensible rate. Preston and Carter have been included in the squad but don’t demand replacing second string players in their position. The Super Rugby final is a noticeable black mark against Carter and being in the squad is a plus for him. Not sure any journey men are being prioritised over Love, Tavatavanawai, Preston, or Carter. Perhaps ALB but TT still has a lot to learn at centre, his defensive positioning and passing was caught out a few times in super rugby. Seems to me Robertson is exposing all the above players in a sensible manner.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@jimmyb said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@cgrant said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

This team is so underwhelming, at least on paper as the game has not been played yet. The return of Williams and Sititi should add more muscle up front when they are available but I don't see too many adjustments in the backline which would make it less meh as Love did not get enough minutes to show what he is capable of, while Carter is totally untried at this level. Roigard will be welcome when he is back as Ratima and Christie would not even be considered for selection if they were Australian or South African players.

This is my issue with Robertson’s thinking. Player X, may have a huge amount of potential but hasn’t played any/enough test rugby and therefore we need to select the experienced player who is getting worse and worse all the time.

It means the emerging talent only ever gets an opportunity when Robertson’s hand is forced by injury and they’ll get to the Wordl Cup with those players still too inexperienced to be selected in his view and the experienced players having declined in ability even further.

It’s time to find replacements for Reece, Barrett (yes, I know it’s Mo’unga), Lienert-Brown etc. Worst case scenario is the new players will only have enough time to get to the level the players they’re replacing would be at in 2027 anyway.

Who in Super Rugby is demanding themselves to be out ahead of Reece, Barrett, ALB? The wingers in super rugby were v average and Reece was consistently out playing his opposition? Which 10 is putting their hand above Barrett’s? Love? His coach didn’t even trust him over Brett Cameron? Has he showed enough composure in his chances at 10 to ditch Barrett and McKenzie? Did ALB not repeatedly outplay his opponents when on the field this year?

Fringe players in this year have simply not been good enough to push the incumbents out. That’s a problem with the standard of rugby, not Robertson’s selections. There isn’t really anyone who has showed potential that isn’t in the squad. I’m not sure were the criticism is justified

What ridiculously high level of form in Super Rugby are you really looking for? Potential should be enough to get a number of players a look in when so many of the current crop are so average and have clearly been on the decline for years. To be fair, Robertson has selected some players on potential at least when forced to with injuries to others.

It’s not really the players who aren’t in the squad that are the issue anyway. There are players in the squad right now who, given a reasonable amount of game time, would almost certainly be better then the fading experienced players come 2027. But Robertson seems to think experience trumps everything else. And that will see the players you've mentioned still in the 2023 at the World Cup, with another two years of their ability sliding away.

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@jimmyb said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@cgrant said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

This team is so underwhelming, at least on paper as the game has not been played yet. The return of Williams and Sititi should add more muscle up front when they are available but I don't see too many adjustments in the backline which would make it less meh as Love did not get enough minutes to show what he is capable of, while Carter is totally untried at this level. Roigard will be welcome when he is back as Ratima and Christie would not even be considered for selection if they were Australian or South African players.

This is my issue with Robertson’s thinking. Player X, may have a huge amount of potential but hasn’t played any/enough test rugby and therefore we need to select the experienced player who is getting worse and worse all the time.

It means the emerging talent only ever gets an opportunity when Robertson’s hand is forced by injury and they’ll get to the Wordl Cup with those players still too inexperienced to be selected in his view and the experienced players having declined in ability even further.

It’s time to find replacements for Reece, Barrett (yes, I know it’s Mo’unga), Lienert-Brown etc. Worst case scenario is the new players will only have enough time to get to the level the players they’re replacing would be at in 2027 anyway.

Who in Super Rugby is demanding themselves to be out ahead of Reece, Barrett, ALB? The wingers in super rugby were v average and Reece was consistently out playing his opposition? Which 10 is putting their hand above Barrett’s? Love? His coach didn’t even trust him over Brett Cameron? Has he showed enough composure in his chances at 10 to ditch Barrett and McKenzie? Did ALB not repeatedly outplay his opponents when on the field this year?

Fringe players in this year have simply not been good enough to push the incumbents out. That’s a problem with the standard of rugby, not Robertson’s selections. There isn’t really anyone who has showed potential that isn’t in the squad. I’m not sure were the criticism is justified

What ridiculously high level of form in Super Rugby are you really looking for? Potential should be enough to get a number of players a look in when so many of the current crop are so average and have clearly been on the decline for years. To be fair, Robertson has selected some players on potential at least when forced to with injuries to others.

It’s not really the players who aren’t in the squad that are the issue anyway. There are players in the squad right now who, given a reasonable amount of game time, would almost certainly be better then the fading experienced players come 2027. But Robertson seems to think experience trumps everything else. And that will see the players you've mentioned still in the 2023 at the World Cup, with another two years of their ability sliding away.

I’m sorry but that’s a load of absolute bollocks. Who hasn’t been picked that shows potential and who in the squad is fading with perhaps the exception of ALB?

The front row only has Taylor, the rest are the best up and coming young props. The second row has Holland, Darry and Lord when not injured. Who else could be picked there? Ditto with a backrow that has Lakai, Parker, Kirifi, Finau, Sititi. The only old experienced player there is Savea.

Halfback has two new young players in Hotham and Ratima, both of whom have plenty of game time. 10 is the only problem area but no one is putting their hand up behind the two incumbent players.

In the mid field, Robertson has ditched Ioane, brought in Proctor, and has TT and Tupea in reserve. None of that was injured forced.

Wing is a problem area but who else should he pick? Robertson, while maybe 3-4 tests late, is actually creating a very balanced squad in terms of youth and experience. Your criticism is just parroting nonsense that has no real basis to it

@reprobate said in Ta$man v Manawatu:

That one to me would suggest he's a hungus who can't use his support players - which will work just fine when he's bullying some non-professional blokes from palmy, but not so much higher up.

If you watch his Top14 games, in a lot of ways he was a v v v good 13, and that was against some quality opposition

@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:

I thought DMac played a solid game on the weekend. His kicking game was much stronger than BBs, he just didn't have much x factor. I don't mind that, and I'd like to see him get a run with Roigard and the top team

The backline didn’t look as smooth with DMac at 10, particularly the out the back plays close to the line that opened up the French defence so well, looked noticeably disjointed in this test.

The tries scored were not nearly as well constructed as in the previous tests. The grubber that resulted in Kirifis try was a dirt poor option that was made to look good by the French 15 fumbling it and Reece stripping it. The ALB try didn’t scream the smooth and well constructed out the back plays we saw in the previous two tests either. No real excuses for Dmac with a 9,11,13 combo he was very familiar with.

Dmac has also been targeted under the high ball and it’s a clear vulnerability in the ABs backfield. The Crusaders did it in the final and the international teams will target him.

But we’re stuck between rock and a hard place with Barrett and McKenzie. Either Love or someone else has to step up

@stodders said in Boks v Wobblies I:

@jimmyb did they blame the ref?

Increasingly so after the game. Strange that…

@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@cgrant my eyes have been impressed with Beehre's carrying this season.

Beehre had some of the best attacking stats among the locks last season super season. Carrying, defenders beaten, and post contact metres were impressive.

Well if anyone thought the Boks were under cooked. They look very slick

@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@brodean And that for me is the key issue.

Robertson was an outstanding coach at provincial and Super Rugby level where he was able to build a squad of fierce battlers around his big personality.

I am not sure he has successfully transitioned yet to international coaching where the risks and rewards are much bigger.

Potentially world class players are being overlooked for solid, but unexciting and unexceptional, battlers.

Who are the potentially world class players being over looked?

What am I watching!

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

@cgrant said in All Blacks v Argentina I:

This team is so underwhelming, at least on paper as the game has not been played yet. The return of Williams and Sititi should add more muscle up front when they are available but I don't see too many adjustments in the backline which would make it less meh as Love did not get enough minutes to show what he is capable of, while Carter is totally untried at this level. Roigard will be welcome when he is back as Ratima and Christie would not even be considered for selection if they were Australian or South African players.

This is my issue with Robertson’s thinking. Player X, may have a huge amount of potential but hasn’t played any/enough test rugby and therefore we need to select the experienced player who is getting worse and worse all the time.

It means the emerging talent only ever gets an opportunity when Robertson’s hand is forced by injury and they’ll get to the Wordl Cup with those players still too inexperienced to be selected in his view and the experienced players having declined in ability even further.

It’s time to find replacements for Reece, Barrett (yes, I know it’s Mo’unga), Lienert-Brown etc. Worst case scenario is the new players will only have enough time to get to the level the players they’re replacing would be at in 2027 anyway.

Who in Super Rugby is demanding themselves to be out ahead of Reece, Barrett, ALB? The wingers in super rugby were v average and Reece was consistently out playing his opposition? Which 10 is putting their hand above Barrett’s? Love? His coach didn’t even trust him over Brett Cameron? Has he showed enough composure in his chances at 10 to ditch Barrett and McKenzie? Did ALB not repeatedly outplay his opponents when on the field this year?

Fringe players in this year have simply not been good enough to push the incumbents out. That’s a problem with the standard of rugby, not Robertson’s selections. There isn’t really anyone who has showed potential that isn’t in the squad. I’m not sure were the criticism is justified

@Canes4life said in All Blacks XV 2025:

Who makes this squad?

Minus the new All Blacks from last years squad, fairly similar if the players form continues.

Props the same, though depends if Bower is in the main squad.

Hookers: the same with the exception of Ekland?

Locks: wide open for two new spots with Lord and Holland likely in the ABs. Ah Kuio definitely in there. Not sure about the last spot

Loose forwards: the position with the most spots up for grabs. Suspect Haig and Lio-Willie will remain but Kirifi, Lakai, and Sotutu won’t be there

Half backs: Christie may remain so one more position

First five: Jacomb stays, Reihana comes in to replace Plummer

Mid-Fielders: Higgins and Lamp would have to be locks. Don’t see McLeod making it again. Two more spots there

Outside Backs: Naholo, Preston and Narawa if they’re not in the ABs squad. You’d expect Tangitau to definitely be there

@W32 said in Boks v Wobblies I:

Joe Schmidt seems to be living on pre Farrell Ireland reputation.. hasn’t added much to any team he’s been involved with since then, and Ireland have been better under Farrell. A bit like Plumtree. Posers

That’s simply not true. He completely turned Ireland around from nothing, immediately improved the All Blacks when he became involved, and this current crop of Wallabies is better than the crop under Rennie or 2019 Cheika. The reality is that until the Wallabies get rid of the likes of White, Slipper, and the rest of the old crop, they’re next to uncoachable

@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2026:

With Tengblad, injuries have severly impacted the last couple of years. While he won't be a 'squad member', he will be there full-time to get himself ready. I'd expect he will be eventually replacing Mitch Dunshea in the squad, likely next year will be his last.

Tai Cribb to return next year? Seems the logical guy to bring in again. I'd expect Haig/Stodart will spend a fair bit of time as bench locks.

Watching Pledger last weekend, expext he will be the no1 halfback vert early in the season.

One season out injured and everyone forgets how well Haig played before getting injured. Can’t really see an argument that once fully fit, he spends 90% of the time starting at 6. Bench lock is quite the demotion

Nareki does some good stuff but boy does he do some stupid shit