The Silver Fern

@FakatavaAllBlack said in Vote All Black Captain:

@The-Docter I'm too young to really remember Taine Randell, although I do know he's an Otago & Landers legend so if I ever met him I would shout that man a drink

Taine Randall - a fine No 8 who could play at 7 and 6. He was strong and able and fierce with a good future ahead of him and your selectors fixed that - it was a time of great change in your senior personnel, so they appointed a young bloke who had just arrived as captain and left him to work it out for himself ... at 21 or 22! It was one of the most myopic decisions I can recall from the wise men of rugby, shameful really, and Randell was the only one who paid a price.

@chimoaus

Chimoaus,

One of my daughters reminded me recently how I had told her long ago that she was the most important person in her life, not her new husband, not her new baby, … . I recall she was hurtling into a new business, commencing at Sydney University, settling into marriage, and being a new mother. She was horrified, could not believe I would advise such selfishness.

She was grinning as she told me (at 42 in 2019) how it was not until life developed more that she remembered the rationale – “Eat wisely, sleep well, withdraw to enjoy the things that please you, have your family share the load … if you are not caring properly for yourself you cannot reliably deliver to others who are important to you.”

We were eating lunch mid-week – “Dad, I see you are at home-home (Sydney) this week, I will collect you at 10, I want to visit the Art Gallery.” and I was pleased that she had heeded something a wise man had advised me.

Further, I have long grasped at something Winston Churchill said, about dealing with unrelenting pressure:

“This is the lesson: never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense.”

Up on your feet and box on, chimoaus.

You are young, you will adapt. I raised my son and three girls throughout their teenage years, alone, while I was at the top of the tree in my corporate career – it can be done and you will be proud of your achievement.

Just look around you here – voices aplenty happy to have a word when you need it.

@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD

Front row: As a long term student and tradesman in the craft I was delighted when your Con Barrell (Auckland, Canterbury, Crusaders) turned up here some years ago, helping out with our juniors. We have enjoyed discussion on this vital subject many times over.

Carl Hayman's career fascinated me. He was way too tall for front row, yet then Sir Graham had him switch to tight head back in '03 or '04! I recalled the extra attention I had from my bloke to deal with my height at 6 feet, which was tall way back then - useful for No 2 in the lineout but his focus was on getting the open side technique right, to secure scrum ball. He came from a more educated position than most, he had competed in the field in the '62 Empire Games under an Eastern European master and he worked on precision, as his coach had.

I had a look through the record to find that Hayman was the tallest front rower used by the All Blacks from the late '70s until his departure in 2007.

Of the 21 players just four were less than 40 mm of his height and his most frequent partner, Tony Woodcock, was 90 mm (3½") shorter - at loose head. How did that work? Carl must have had double jointed knees to get his back down far enough, and parallel!

Was there anything else you need help on?

@nzzp said in Carl Hayman:

@Frye said in Carl Hayman:

@Tim said in Carl Hayman:

@Billy-Tell

Wasn't he convicted of serious domestic violence charges in France? Don't know if he can blame those on head-knocks.

(Out of character?) eruptions of violence was certainly a characteristic of the NFL players who were found to have CTE.

Although you definitely want to be wary about blaming it, I think there has to be a measure of responsibility as well.

I've read a bit on the CTE, including the excellent book Concussion. Be careful of going down that rabbit hole, as it will reduce your enjoyment of contact sports (particularly NFL) significantly. Seriously, don't start if you don't want to know.

But @Tim one of the charactertistics is the change people have. Historically mild mannered individuals flare up, forget things, get frustrated. It's damn scary stuff.

So, he's responsible - but if he has CTE, then there are veyr likely other major drivers.

It's so sad for the dude, wouldn't wish it on anyone.

That characteristic was there in my experience - my dear mother departed a life of sacrifice, service, pride in her charges and joy in her days to a foreign world where the people about her were strangers. Of all the brothers and sisters I was the only one she recognised. We agreed she would be most unhappy with her existence and we investigated euthanasia.

The only good feature of the dementia condition is that is short lived.

A neighbour has recently disappeared from view and the family has reorganised itself around him falling victim. He suddenly switched from happiness to sudden anger. Crazy Horse touches on this up the page there, as does NZZP.

As good fortune would have it his family lives for each other and they have formed a protective circle around the 80 year old and mother. Three daughters and a grandson attend to a week per month each live-in care - one leaves her business in Sydney in her managers' hands - to ensure he has careful full time surveillance.

It does demand that level of attention, one must anticipate the most alarming anomalies.

@Crazy-Horse said in Red Cards:

@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD said in Red Cards:

@Crazy-Horse said in Red Cards:

@Duluth said in Red Cards:

@Crazy-Horse

The ‘team’ yellow point is valid

Matera isn’t a great example though because the second offence probably should’ve been a red anyway

Fucked if I know anymore.

Cheika also went on about bending at the hips being a mitigation , but not bending at the knees. He suggested it is not always possible to bend at the hips because the distance between the tackler and his target can be too close to allow hip bending.

Either way the boffins have created a mess.

Too funny! Just like when Cheika was going around for Randwick, he's made that up on the run! He'd have no persuasive basis for it other than a loud whiny voice.

He was good on the paddock. His master at No 8, John Maxwell, was hard and intimidating. Chieka was hard and plain unscrupulous.

Maybe, maybe not. He didn't have a horse in the race last night so not sure he would have had a reason to whine apart from seeing a game he loves going down a path he may not like. I like him on that panel. Never liked him as the Wallaby coach though.

Crazy Horse: I must clarify my comments on Cheika - I wasn't watching Friday's match. My piece was directed at his exceptional Club playing career and his win at all costs determination. The "whining" I spoke of was almost invariably Michael pressing the referee for an advantage over some non-existent infraction by his opponents. Well before he was appointed captain he was berating referees on the field.

He played for the dominant Australian club Randwick for 10 years, during which they won 4 of the 6 grand finals in which they appeared. He captained them for 3 years and later coached them to a grand final win in 2004 (over my Mighty Eastwood, the mongrel - grrrr). Seriously good players were selected for Randwick, there were no "also rans".

His performance overseas as a player and as a coach from 2000 onwards, at 33, was as impressive.

As Australian coach - I rarely read the critiques. From Bob Dwyer onwards I had been reading that none of 'em were any good, the eight or nine or ten of 'em who preceded Michael Cheika. Jones, Deans, Ewen, no matter what they did they had no idea so far as the fans were concerned.

Banjo Paterson once wrote about Australian racing fan experts at the gallops:

But all the finest horsemen out the men to Beat the Band
You’ll find amongst the crowd that ride their races in the Stand

His summary is good for all sports I reckon.

As to his achievements off the field - he learned quickly and succeeded mightily at the top end of the fashion industry in Europe. He is multi lingual, and his family is highly regarded in the powerful Lebanese business community in Sydney.

I like his pedigree and I like him. He irritated me as a player because he never shut up but I have no doubt about his knowledge of the game, his pursuit of excellence or his appetite for hard work.

@Crazy-Horse said in Red Cards:

@Duluth said in Red Cards:

@Crazy-Horse

The ‘team’ yellow point is valid

Matera isn’t a great example though because the second offence probably should’ve been a red anyway

Fucked if I know anymore.

Cheika also went on about bending at the hips being a mitigation , but not bending at the knees. He suggested it is not always possible to bend at the hips because the distance between the tackler and his target can be too close to allow hip bending.

Either way the boffins have created a mess.

Too funny! Just like when Cheika was going around for Randwick, he's made that up on the run! He'd have no persuasive basis for it other than a loud whiny voice.

He was good on the paddock. His master at No 8, John Maxwell, was hard and intimidating. Chieka was hard and plain unscrupulous.

@broughie said in Bogans with kids:

@MN5 What’s wrong with Wayne?

Dunno.

A brother's middle name was Wayne, which is not Irish so it was odd.

Whenever we needed to get one over him we would refer to him as "Waynie", which would transform him into a thrashing machine.

I don't know why we chose that, and I don't know why he reacted so.

It was all the more amusing because we were taught to focus on the important bits. "If they call you names, ignore them. If they go on with it simply ask "Which one of you plicks wants to go first?" turn to the biggest bloke, say "You'll do" and hit him with everything you've got."

@MN5 That took me almost a minute to work out. I am ashamed.

@mn5 said in Movie review thread...:

@nepia said in Movie review thread...:

@mn5 said in Movie review thread...:

Despite the fact I’ve gone off him a bit on account of his out of touch Trump rants

His on point rants about Trump is the reason I've stayed a fan despite his questionable acting roles and performances in recent years.

I get what you mean but I don’t take any star voicing political opinions remotely seriously. They should stick to entertaining.

It was a real hoot a few years ago when singer Pink managed to drum up an enormous reaction against Australian lamb producers when she called the process of sheep mulesing¹ “sadistic” in a video for PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals I think) and wanted the industry shut down which, after all, she was both qualified and entitled to do.

Oh, how we laughed - ho, ho, ho - as the shoppers simply stopped buying up for Christmas, retailers got the jitters and their stock buyers backed off for Australia Day and Easter. December to Easter sales are important for the growers, but people ignored that and listened to Pink because she had credibility as their very most fave singer (or something). And anyway, she said she grew up in rural Pennsylvania. But.

Which grows bugger all lamb. But. Especially not in town, where daddy went to work every day selling insurance.

"Cheeky li'l minx" chortled the lamb growers from the Range down the south west slopes all the way out to Cootamundra, as their livelihoods were hung out to dry by a 27 year old warbler from the USA, they were soooo amused!

About 4 weeks later in mid January, as Pink's prospects of being fed through a mincer improved, reimagined as a lamb sausage, out came a profound tearful statement:

*Pink backs down over animal cruelty claims
“I probably could have been a lot more researched on my own… My message was, in my mind, boycott animal cruelty – not an entire industry, not Australia, obviously, because it’s my favourite country.

“Then going back, I was speaking without thinking and I actually did say ban Australia. It’s not something that I can agree with. I have nothing against farmers. I grew up in rural Pennsylvania. I don’t want to hurt anyone, I just want the animals to hurt less.”*

She added that she had never heard of mulesing - which didn't stop her from expressing her distaste. It is so very easy being terribly important, and facile, eh?

I see a rationale that "they're people, why can't they have an opinion on politics and then voice that?" This drongo's opinion cost them their income during the peak sales period, plus some.

I wonder what the sheep growers of Harden Murrumburrah would say to that? It took them years to recover from Pink's stupidity.

¹ "mulesing" prevents maggot infestation, otherwise the animals die

@mn5 said in Movie review thread...:
...

Who is underrating Heat? One poster slightly overrated Heat. But other than it's all good.

@MiketheSnow's list shows that De Niro has been in some bloody awesome movies (and The Deer Hunter).

Heat is well rated here I think it is up there with De Niros very best work although popular opinion and the Oscars seems to disagree with me….hence I still consider it underrated for what I think is a masterpiece of a film.

Despite the fact I’ve gone off him a bit on account of his out of touch Trump rants RDN has been in some absolutely awesome flicks.

De Niro has been exceptional in my time - Heat is one of his best, along with The Deer Hunter, He is a natural before the camera and barking mad off it. Perfect as Father Bobby in Sleepers, with Jean Reno in Ronin, The Score, Godfather II - so many good films. He ended up needing such success, his greedy ex missus had him lined up for the kill! - they are good at that, eh?

I am similarly taken with Al Pacino. Him with De Niro in Heat is as good as it gets, that great movie was made for them. I don't think Pacino has appeared in a poor movie. To the degree that I know anything about these blokes, off screen Pacino does seem to be sane and well behaved.

You do get some pleasant surprises - I used think weird-in-public Sean Penn must find his work in Corn Flakes packets, having never seen him in anything, until my baby daughter wanted me to see Thin Red Line with her. Well, Penn was just outstanding! Not long after I saw him in Carlito's Way with Pacino, same thing, and again in Mystic River, a virtuoso performance.

@pakman said in 6N England v Ireland:

“It is the responsibility of the player [Ewels] to not put himself in a reckless position that can seriously injure an opponent.” Raynal went on to say: “He’s upright, he runs the risk. It is high speed, a high degree of danger, clear head contact. We go for a red card.”

The referee was addressing this to the England captain, pretending to make an innocent enquiry about something he did not know about. If Lawes does not know the Laws then he should not be captain.

The standard could not be clearer - responsibility of the player - no matter how much vitriol one directs at referees; the learned submissions of barrister-fans citing contradictory, persuasive precedent decisions by other referees at other times; swearing robustly at the moon; and relying on invisible Law X by which the referee is obliged to keep the game attractive.

They are too dim to understand that the game affords them a handsome income for as long as they care to enhance and protect it; and too lazy to study the laws. RUPA is silent on the risk, utterly useless, focused only on the income for today's players and does not give a rat's about the future. Daddy can pay for that.

For all their posturing most of the coaches have abrogated their responsibility to sanction dopes who continue to go high - their thinking extends only for the period for which they are contracted, less 33% for likely early termination.

These circumstances are common to Union and League - the games are in a precarious state, with legal actions now being mounted about failure to protect players; and both are a single fatal injury away from public horror and consequential political intervention.

As an aside - five weeks ago League lost one of its favourite sons, John Raper. If you saw him moving in to tackle you, there was nothing you could do but surrender - the best I have seen in the game. I doubt he ever made a tackle above the waist. I played against one of his younger brothers, Mick or Maurie - I don't remember which - they were all the same, deadly. It can be done.

The biggest mistake League made was to permit the high tackles Sonny Bill was good at - I didn't see much of that 'cos I stopped supporting League after they kicked my beloved Souths out. It was little more than a shoulder charge, evidently. A good few of the boofheads lumbering about now would welcome its return, to show off how tough they are - that League wonder boy Mitchell deserved a long, long holiday for his most recent effort last August.

@donsteppa

During the bushfires in Victoria in 2009 I watched the nightly news featuring a visit to the firefighters by that effete little man Rudd as Prime Minister. He stepped out of the Commonwealth limousine, stood and looked awkwardly towards the crews milling about, 30 or 40 yards away, collecting their tucker from the trestle tables.

They looked back at him with obvious disinterest. He then had to walk towards them, beaming and unwelcome.

The very next night the news showed a similar setting - a white sedan arrived on site, the front passenger door was opening before it stopped. Out bounded Shane Warne with a big smile and "G'day fellas", striding to them. The reaction was spontaneous - they came to him as one, laughing and enjoying the surprise, swamping him with their hospitality.

He did what he needed to do instinctively, with confidence and ease. He was a natural.

That is precisely what I see in the video you have displayed - "Quite a skill" you say. I reckon you would be fortunate to see that just once in a lifetime.

Big Merv could pull it off it; Mark Waugh too - he was good with the mob; and Greg Matthews, a charismatic and able fella, who they liked. None of them could do it with near the same aplomb as Shane.

It has been a sad week, I felt the same when Peter Brock died sixteen years ago. You come across many good men in a lifetime, some of them are truly exceptional.

@catogrande

It would be a fair bet that Shane did not once speak about porking sheilas in Accrington, or anywhere, who were in their "very early 90s"!

@mn5 said in RIP Warney:

@jc said in RIP Warney:

This one is really sad. One of those people I would have really loved to have a beer with. His war stories would have been worth me putting my hand in my pocket all night.

See ya Warney, thanks for those magic moments and never being boring.

Yeah one of those cases of a person being a sporting legend AND a dynamic personality. So often it’s one or the other.

He would have been terrific company over a few beers.

So sad, heartbreaking.

Mike Gatting:

“He was a great tactician, he was always up the other end thinking about how to get somebody out, how to do something different. All the while he was having fun. He enjoyed what he did and it came across.”

Rod Marsh in hospital following heart attack [https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/12550129/rod-marsh-the-former-australia-wicketkeeper-in-hospital-following-heart-attack)

It is not clear to me where I should place the link I wish to provide, or where to place any text I wish to add to it.

PS. Now I must apologise, this news was previously noted up the page - I did not check beyond the latest 17 hour old entry, believing the news that I saw was reported just this morning.

@mn5 said in Rugby Freaks:

Does Ma’a Nonu deserve a mention or was he just someone who did everything really well without being freakish ?

He was as you say, in my opinion. I watched his development throughout - I liked what I saw in the Hurricanes when Super Rugby arrived and followed them a bit - Rodney, Piri, Jason Eaton. I saw a really focused, deliberate effort from Tana Umaga, bringing Ma'a Nonu on from his clumsy, random early days.

When Tana left that fine team it seemed as if he and Conrad Smith had colluded to fashion the second half of the plan. With Corey Jane he did a lot of work teaching Nonu positional play. To his credit Nonu paid attention and just got better and better at it.

When Sonny Bill turned up he did not see him as a threat and it was a joy to watch the ease of their combination. The try in the 2015 World Cup final was, for me after 12 years, the icing on the cake.

@booboo said in Rugby Freaks:

A left field one, and a bit of a flash in the pan who disappeared into loigue, but Brett Papworth had an incredibly freakish ability to step through defenses.

A commendable choice there, booboo, honouring the President of the Mighty Woods!

He was a gun alright, we lost him to League in 1988 and he immediately copped too many injuries - played just a half dozen games and had to retire before turning 30. He went straight back to his local roots, playing cricket for Epping, and he has been an intelligent, energetic and popular Club President since some time last century.

Brett has been on Graeme Hughes weekday Talkin' Sport radio program for years, with Peter Tunks, he's involved in several businesses, including player management.

"I would agree about George Smith. Maybe he had a stronger team around him, but I remember him as being a far more significant nuisance when we played him"

@canefan

Of course he was, yes. My amusement is at the locally generated hyperbole that accompanied him whenever he played, and the failure to acknowledge his limited repertoire. Bono was the new "great white hope".

@bones said in Rugby Freaks:

@machpants said in Rugby Freaks:

Pocock was a freak in the jackal, best player in the world ever at that imo. Not much else, ... . So good at it, ABs made their forwards tactics around running directly at him to nullify him.

Yeah see I can't really get behind that eh - all he did was look for a jackal - to the detriment of pretty much every other factor of his game at times. I don't see it as anything that can't be pretty much replicated by any other half decent player if they shelve every other aspect too.

Lazy Owen Finegan, David Wilson, the exceptional George Smith all offered way more than him. Schalk Burger, Thierry Dusautoir, Jerome, Liam Messam and Sir Richie not only monstered him, they were technically better, more effective. World Rugby disagreed - kept awarding him as Australian-World Idol, to stop his agent yabbering in their ear ... and to punish McCaw because they didn't like him.

"So good at it, as a minor irritation ABs made their forwards tactics around running directly at him to nullify him." That would have taken them all of three minutes in the tactics session a week beforehand.

@catogrande said in Rugby Freaks:

Lots of great players being touted here, but we're supposed to be talking about freaks.

So you will throw your boot at the screen if I mention Tony Woodcock or Greg Somerville ... Anton Oliver?