The Silver Fern

@Chris-B

I can see why Fozzie doesn't like Will Jordan - he's inexperienced. I'm sure Fozzie will pick him once he's got 20 international caps under his belt.

@booboo said in T20 World Cup - Other Matches:

@PecoTrain said in T20 World Cup - Other Matches:

Is it too late to suggest a T20 WC format change where we have a "losers final" for the teams in third place in each table to keep their fans interested?

Like that.

Like 7s have plate, bowl etc

Along those lines but maybe something more appropriate than a a plate or a bowl - like a braai

@Winger said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:

They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt

Players have just got to be more careful. I saw it and first thought was a definite red card.

He had one step to adjust his body position - maybe less than step one as he was already moving in one direction when Ringrose altered direction.

I'm not disputing the red card under the current rules and interpretations of mitigating factors.

The issue is putting all the emphasis on the tackler to prevent head contact when the attacking players actions are part of the equation that results in accidental head contact being a yellow/red card offence.

@Derm-McCrum said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:

Much amusement that Gregor Paul of the NZ Herald seems to have misunderstood the long-standing joke between Irish and SA fans about Josh van der Flier being from Wicklow in South Africa.

The secret to reading Gregor Paul articles is to ensure you enjoy the fish'n'chips that they are wrapped around as the grease and torn paper will hopefully make the article a thoughtful but unfinished "what if" rather than something that should be put straight into the bin.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:

The thing which frustrates me is this is the same-old, same-old.

The problems we saw from 2017 onward are still there and it shows against a team which can out-muscle and out-discipline us. The strategy doesn't seem to have changed much either - go down the blind, spin it into the midfield where the likes of BB can exploit the gaps and fast counter attacks. That and occasional shit kicks and poor discipline.

Bullshit - the problem is that we don't try to build pressure on the opposition before running the ball. Seeing a gap early and exploiting it is a fantastic skill but running into it only to get smashed by the opposition and turnover the ball multiple times SHOULDN'T be part of the game plan.

I don't blame Foster for all of this as he's inherited a lot of the problems and you have to give him credit for some good stuff like making the lineout drive a potent weapon and actually trying to bring some continuity to team selection. But he really needs to have a good, hard look at his tactics, his team plan/style of play development and, above all, get the players heads right, both individually and collectively.

And I can't fault Cane either for his on-field attitude. Sure, he's still learning and some of his decisions aren't good, but he's giving 120% and is at least focussing on controlling the team and the game. Do Senior players like Sam Whitelock, Nugget and Beauden Barrett need to step up and get more involved both on and off the field?

I blame Foster and his coaching team - we have brilliant individuals that don't play well as a team and seem to have lost a lot of confidence in the space of a few weeks. Playing people out of position just compounds that. Our handling errors and lack of awareness during the game (Whitelock offloading to Lomax where Lomax just watches the ball go past him as an example) makes me question what the players are doing during training because they don't seem that familiar with how each other plays in the pitch.

I'm unsure Cane and Ardie can play well as a unit - I assume Foster subbed Frizell because of discipline warnings rather than Ardie as Frizell/Sotutu played well together versus Australia while I wouldn't have even noticed Ardie on the pitch if it wasn't for a late turnover.

And Ardie leads on to the real issue in the team - our mix of experience. Our senior players put in their shifts and generally play very well (Whitelock/Nugget/Moody/Coles/Beauden/Cane) but its the guys that are the next step down and have 20+ tests experience that are really struggling.

Jordie had a poor game, ALB was pretty anonymous, Goodhue did enough to be an average 12 today, Mo'unga was ordinary today, Ardie was ordinary, Tuipulotu was anonymous. And the majority of their subs don't look much better - they generally turn in average at best performances. Reiko's performances starting or off the bench are error ridden. Taylor is likely as good as Coles. Add in TJs performance last week and it looks awful.

As our senior guys start hanging up their boots, what will the next generation look like? At the moment it looks like we need a major shift to younger players because unless things improve, we will end up with a glut of journeymen.

Enough ranting....

@Winger said in Hansen:

Agree. Limited coach who only won game because of the quality of NZ players.

But his decision to stack the team with a number of very limited Crusaders players (including Barrett who is not a 6) was really his main downfall

So he's a limited coach because he had great players AND a poor coach because he picked such limited Canterbury players? Surely he must have been a brilliant coach to get limited Crusaders players to support the brilliant players sufficiently to win a few games here and there.

And if we are flat track bullies, world rugby must have been dire over the last four years.

Focussing on it as a provincial issue ignores players that were tried and either found wanting or who were injured. While it might make you feel better blaming another part of the country, it ignores any real issues that need to be addressed.

@Number-10 said in RWC: Japan v Ireland (Pool A):

When Japan beat South Africa in 2015, Japan was 13th ranked and South Africa 3rd.

Today, Japan was 10th ranked and Ireland 2nd.

I wanted to say that the 2015 victory was bigger, but Japan just didn't let SA get away and scrapped home at the finish. And the world rankings below 8-10 are a little hit and miss anyways because the teams don't play often enough.

But Japan basically dominated 75% of this game - this wasn't a lucky win, it was a come-from-behind, dominate the opposition, never give up victory. While Ireland looked poor, they were made to look poor and if Japan had had some luck, they could have scored more.

So yeah, this beats Japan's victory over SA.

@akan004 said in RWC: Japan v Ireland (Pool A):

@taniwharugby said in RWC: Japan v Ireland (Pool A):

we have to win all our games once we get out of pool play, be it Ireland, Scotland, Samoa or Japan, it makes zero difference who it is.

Having an easy quarter final makes a big difference.

The question is which is the easy quarter finals?

Japan at home with some belief looks the hardest or an Ireland that may not show up and are struggling with injuries? Samoa look a little reckless to seriously challenge Ireland and Scotland might scrape a win against Russia. I'd like Scotland in the quarters, but I think they will be on their way home.

@barbarian said in Bledisloe 1:

Nah I’m sorry but that’s fucked. First and only time I’ve ever seen that call, and it’s in the 79th minute of a Bledisloe. Just absolute horse shit.

Take the win NZ. But it’s hardly a famous victory.

Admit Barnes robbed the All Blacks in 2007 and we will give you this one...

@Victor-Meldrew have some respect for the dead please.

@Kirwan said in Worst AB Captain:

@Tim said in Worst AB Captain:

@Kirwan Yes, I've gotten a little too angry tonight. But he should not be anywhere near the ABs. When was the last time he had an adequate game in Super Rugby?

No arguments here.

Dalton should be at seven if they keep Ardie at 8.

My guess is Cody Taylor to 8, Ardie to the bench for impact when hes brought on in the 78th minute, Cane to 6 and Scott Barrett to 7.

Barrett has shown he can play well in lock and 6 so lets give him a go at 7 to take the pressure off the captain.

Taylor will struggle to make it back to starting hooker this year so lets give him a run at 8 because there is no way in hell we will play an 8 at 8.

Cane remains captain

@Winger said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

Clarke looked a super star in his first game but not close to that level since

Almost as if Clarke was doing the job of two wingers and a centre because we were missing other options?

Admittedly there were those two or three high balls that Jordie competed for over 6 games where his height really made a difference. And his long range goal kicking - wouldn't want to forget that. There's probably other talents of Jordies that I've missed as he's never actually showed them in an AB jersey.

In comparison, Will Jordan displayed something in a matter of minutes. Certainly enough to drop Jordie to the bench and start Jordan over him to see.

@game_film said in All Blacks 2022:

@gt12 Yup. Noticed the shift in tone this week from the lads. When they mention preparation what they mean is your opponents strategies and how to counter them. Ireland’s midfield diamond, sexton round the back: No answer. Boks aerial attack: took a week. Pumas spread defence: barely any kicks into space. We all knew what was coming but they couldn’t prepare for it.

You misunderstand Fozzies cunning plan - if we try to counter an opponents strengths and focus on their weaknesses, they may alter how they play and it will all be for nothing. Instead, we should play with no real game plan as then opponents will be unable to identify our strengths and weaknesses.

Well other than the weakness of having no game plan but we can disguise that with a really high error count.

@booboo said in RWC Week 5: France v Italy:

@NTA said in RWC Week 5: France v Italy:

Forget the other 79 minutes where the ABs didn't play better than France

Seriously? We fucked up their shit no end for the entire match, but his inexperience and objective bias screwed us. And it wasn't just the forward pass.

He cost us over 20 points and we lost by two.

All Black haters gunna hate though.

But it also taught McCaw and the All Blacks that they had to take the ref out of the game as much as possible and that likely resulted in many of the records set over the remainder of McCaws career. Would you re-write the 2007 RWC if it resulted in a very different 8 years post-RWC 2007?

Maybe it made Wayne Barnes a better ref as well - while he doesn't get everything right, he will often apologise or explain if he thinks he has made a mistake and he has at least a "feel" for the game compared to his English compatriots.

@hydro11 said in Foster must go:

It's hard to accept that that Irish team should beat us in a series at home. They really shouldn't based on talent. However, they are just much smarter than us.

I think we make a mistake by focusing too much on Foster. I don't really understand why Laulala did that in his own 22 in the first half. An Irish prop doesn't do that. They know better. That's a fundamental error in the way we play rugby as a nation - not just down to Foster.

But, yes, Foster must go.

And why are the Irish smarter than us? Where are the skills coming from within the AB coaching set up to make us smarter?

We have Feek (scrums), Plumtree (forwards) and Mooar (attack) which were supplemented by Strawbridge (skills coach) with Mike Cron brought back to assist Feek and Plumtree and Schmidt brought into assist Foster. There should be some brains amongst that group surely? Or is it an acknowledgement that bring in Cron/Schmidt who have been effectively retired for 3 years might just drag the skill sets towards current tactics speak volumes about what the coaching team are capable of?

Personally, if I was Foster and the NZRFU brought in Cron and Schmidt to "assist" I'd assume the exit door was half way open. Or at least just a historic series loss away. Or that may just be me being optimistic and Fosters long term plan of going into the RWC as a genuine underdog is still on track?

For me, the biggest issue with Foster has been not just his individual short comings but that his coaching team was such a step down from the previous coaching team and he couldn't attract any of the acknowledged talent that was out there. You don't build a successful organisation by promoting all of your average employees - they have to have some clear talent to allow those underneath them to respect them and work hard.

The other surprise is that Caleb Ralph appears to be involved in coaching in Australia and Foster hasn't added him to Fosters coaching team to round it out and re-unite him with Feek while giving everyone aside from a few Cantabs someone to direct their anger at in-place of Foster. Or was Foster worried that such an injection of talent would make a difference and highlight the real issue?

@BerniesCorner said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:

Target; 2000 posts of shite and craic by kickoff.

@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:

@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:

What has become apparent (well, what has been rammed home really) in the past 10 days is that rugby has allowed itself to become a sport where the refereeing panel are no longer just there to facilitate the game and allow it to happen, but have become nearly the most important people on the pitch (or box). Rugby is no longer about 30 players, it is about 30 players, and 4 officials whose remit has become sanctioning every single act on the field to its fullest extent.

The term rugby accident no longer has any meaning. Angus Ta'avao got his face caved in and got a red card. LF was in the air and got a yellow. In the England v Australia game two attempted intercepts got two players binned. Papali'i got penalised for a perfect cleanout because the touchie thought something else happened and had to get on the pitch.

Rugby is obsessed with getting people off the pitch. In a game defined by the fact it is a constant contest, players are sent from the field for contesting. Cards are flying thick and fast. AWJ got carded for absolutely nothing but suspicion on the weekend. How is that in any way acceptable?

And i absolutely do not blame the referees even one bit. This comes down to the lawmakers, their guidelines, and the instructions given to their referees. This is the game World Rugby want. Every controversial incident is met with a new, far stricter than required guideline in case it happens again. And that guidelines normally involves another player off the pitch. Professional Rugby is, above all else, a form of entertainment, and yet here we have a governing body obsessed with actively degrading their product, to appease who?

And yet, for some, they do not go far enough. Look at the chat in rugby media after every test. "this is a disgrace, there should have been more cards!! that card wasn't harsh enough, it should have been red!" every single fucking week. Pre-game the focus is on the ref, and what they should look at. Post-game the focus is on the ref, and what they misses, and who else should have been sent from the field.

I have heard more about Jaco in the press than the fucking players over the past couple of days. In what world is that the best outcome?

Long time fans are becoming more and more disillusioned. Casual fans are turning it off. And the response will probably e another crack down and more cards. Awesome.

i honestly believe that we'd have less issues with things like AT head knock if we didn't see cards for all the much more trivial things, failed intercepts, repeated minor offences like off sides...but also NOT seeing them for the early tackle...its all bloody guess work

I'd suggest its the opposite - the IRB has decided that they need to protect the head and have used disciplinary actions (yellow/red cards) to try and eliminate any head knocks. Sounds fine in theory...

In practice, accidental/unavoidable head hits are much more common than the IRB have been willing to admit (publicly at least) and deliberate head hits continue to go unpunished leading to the perception of unfairness. This is exacerbated by the rules placing the responsibility of the tackled players safety on the tackler in-spite 70% of head injury assessments in elite RU from tackle situations being experienced by the tackler and 30% by the ball carrier (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348701038_Genetic_Factors_That_Could_Affect_Concussion_Risk_in_Elite_Rugby). This is backed up by the number of HIA's per 1000 hours of elite rugby has increasing over the last 10 years in-spite of the rule changes and the rate of increase is higher than Rugby League over the same period.

On top of that, the social media comments would suggest fans want the cards to disadvantage the opposition. Se we move away from a game of rugby being played and instead the focus is on the ref/TMO and the hoped for cards.

I acknowledge there will continue to be a place for red and yellow cards in preventing HIA's for clear foul play, but other remedies such as reducing the number of subs will likely have a bigger impact in bringing the number of HIA's down as it reduces the mismatch in fatigue levels that results in many of the more severe HIA's. For cards, my preference would be clearer mitigating circumstances around the dynamic nature of tackles - for instance I do not believe any player tries to tackle an opponent face-on-face so changing that from a likely red card to a penalty reduces the effort to decide punishment and allows TMO interventions to become less common and in the process allows the game to be played rather than just "refereed".

Basically, the current rules are changing rugby as a game with minimal benefit for elite players (it may differ at other levels but I haven't seen the stats to show differing outcomes). Or I'm old and grouchy. Or both.

@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Nepia said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

The only thing I'd really call Barnes out on was that he would call play it earlier for Smith than for Faf.

None of that was on Barnes. Barnes was fine, it was the random TMO coming in that was the difference. Barnes shouldn't be copping it

In the first half, Barnes let a lot go in terms of high shots and some of the challenges for high balls where Kolbe in particular was very late/didn't time his jump and just hit the Mo'unga. For the second half, Barnes just commentated for the TMO although in his defence, at least he was more accurate and more interesting than the ITV crowd..

For the disallowed try, he had called it on the field as a knock back onto Ardies leg and said play on. For the subsequent penalty and following two penalties, Barnes and the assistants seemed to just be guessing and hoping the TMO would help them out.

When Kwagga Smith came on, a number of balls started flying out of rucks on the Bok side after he had told Smith to get his hands off the ball and the jackler supporting their weight became optional. I think the only penalty after the 56th minute was Kolbe's sending off for either side.

Barnes retreated from the game and let others handle it. Similarly, the assistant refs didn't provide a lot of assistance which is probably why the TMO became so key to many decisions. And that indicates to me that either Barnes team weren't up to the task of a final or that the TMO has taken too much control away from the referee making it difficult to manage a game. Or both.

@sparky said in Why this feels different...:

My point is that the cattle were there for NZ. Eddie spotted four years ago the players he wanted in his pack for the RWC knockouts and made damn sure they were fit and hungry what it mattered most. Lesson there perhaps for the next AB coach.

Eddie has hoped the Vunipola boys and Tuilagi would be fit for the RWC for the majority of his time in charge - Mako and Billy were out for large chunks of 2017/2018, Manu missed 2015-2019.

When England played without them, they often struggled when their forwards were contained. In 2018 England had a 46% win ratio, losing to SA, NZ, Ireland, France, Scotland and Wales.

While Eddie has done a lot of good work, he took some big risks. Would we have tolerated Hansen losing games and hoping McKenzie was fit knowing there was a big hole to fill if he didn't recover?

@junior said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@chimoaus said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@ACT-Crusader He basically walks up to the ruck, puts his hand on top of the wallaby then casually walks away. The next drive the ruck is directly under the posts. Its at this stage he should be demanding the ball to throw it over. WTF is he even doing at the ruck. The rest of the backline are out waiting.

That last shot of the 4 (bottom right) is quite telling - look at the space behind the ruck, right in front of the posts, basically the perfect spot for him to casually knock it over.

How would you expect the AB's to setup for a drop goal?

My expectation would be for them to try and drive around the fringes 4-5 times to suck in defenders while half back and kicker/kickers got into position. None of this was happening - blaming Mo'unga when the team were clearly not trying to get into position for a drop kick attempt would appear disingenious.