@voodoo said in Olympics Thread:
@sparky said in Olympics Thread:
I find the whole celebration of Silver and Bronze at the Olympics a bit odd.
Second place is just another losing position.
It's winning that is everything!
Not even halfway through winter and the Fernie for dumbest post of the year is sewn up.
I may as well log out, I can't top this
you could still get 2nd bro.
@Dan54 It's a pretty harmless rant on the fern sort of rage mate, i wouldn't bother getting too concerned.
@canefan said in Current depth at 10:
@mariner4life said in Current depth at 10:
Super rugby success requires a run and gun 10 as well. Open fast footy played for the most part on hard tracks. If the comp dragged in to winter it might be different, but really you play on top of the ground with a heap of space. An adequate kicking game is required, but you win the comp with your legs and your passing game.
I disagree. Since DC that's what coaches think we need. The Blues won it all last season with Plummer, who played a more balanced pivot game. We need game managers, good decision makers who can allow their outsides time and space to work, with solid kicking games that can also run. Players like Plummer don't seem to be valued like I believe they should. DC has screwed up our thinking ever since
I don't see us beating South Africa, France, England and Ireland consistently if we try to play like the Blues with Plummer at 10. Their win was based on forwards dominating collisions in close, and I don't see us achieving that consistently against the top sides - certainly not without major personnel changes, and probably not at all.
McKenzie is the standout 10 in Super rugby. He's the guy we have who creates space for others, and he has a good boot, and his decision-making has come a long long way since his early days where he was just running in circles looking for a gap to use his freakish acceleration. He's by far our best - we just need to stick with him, and give him a bit of support - not overload him with 40,000 touches every week and then blame him when things go south in the last 10 minutes when he's knackered and no other fluffybunny has created anything all day. The management of him last year was fucking abysmal. He did so much good stuff early on and was growing into the role despite a fair bit of mediocrity around him, then he somehow got blamed for our poor finishes and put on the bench - which quelle surprise didn't fix our game but largely fixed our poor finishes because he's a better fucking player. Then he gets a shot to start against Ireland due to injury and is our best in our best game of the year, then he gets rewarded for that by being put back to the bench, and we lose again.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Yes so many of the young and up and coming players have justified everyone sentiments about Robertson with their continued and improved form in this super rugby season....
Any position in mind? Tough to think of any 10's that haven't improved except for Miller and Hohepa.
More a lot have gone backwards or have stagnated. When you look at the ABs XV squad, it’s actually quite disappointing how many haven’t kicked on to another gear (Kirifi has been good but seems to be slipping as the season goes on). Holland, who was a big prospect last season, hasn’t showed the same level (aside from one game against the bottom team).
As for the up and coming ABs from last season. Aumua, Roigard, Ratima, Tosi, Laki, and Love haven’t exactly been setting the world on fire.
The only players that have noticeably improved imo has been Jordon (has played more like a fullback), Vai’i and Finau have got better.
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
Jesus mate, I'm as negative as the next guy, but Taylor, Taukei'aho, Aumua is hardly a weak trio of hookers.
this WAS the big game. this WAS the game you keep your powder dry for.
the reality is that we aren't doing that, it's just wishful thinking from fans to excuse us playing like shit, which frankly we've been doing for quite a while now - our servings of shit have regularly been papered over by bits of individual brilliance getting us out of jail when we've been dominated all day, and a shit-hot lineout. the lineout saved us last week against the poms, but wasn't quite enough this week. we dropped the miracle balls that would have won the game this week. but both weeks, and against the saffas, we have been pretty thoroughly dominated this year.
we kick way too much ball away, and badly. the opposition give us scraps, we finally get the damn ball, and these primadonna fuckwits immediately put boot to ball in low percentage plays. then they laugh about it at half-time.
we get a penalty advantage and BB takes a fucking drop kick. the potatoes get a penalty advantage and they - jonny fucking sexton - try to score a try. we are fucking dumb. we kick a penalty to give us a chance of a draw. a fucking draw. the all blacks. playing for a draw and kicking drop goals under penalty advantage. fuck my days what a fucking disgrace.
all it takes is an off-day for a couple of guys when our tactics are mud and we are so reliant on individual brilliance. sam whitelock, a great player - giving away dumb penalties. BBR, a great player - dumb penalties, terrible handling - his worst game i can remember. it's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water, but when guys like that don't perform, it does show the glaring deficiencies in other areas.
we are dumb. we still can't cope with a good rush defence. we haven't really been able to since the 90s when france used it to beat us. our defensive line speed was utter shit - so the potatoes made ground all day and had momentum. their line speed was really good, and there seems not to be a single fucker out there who has the wits to think, 'oh you know, with all this fanning out and quick line speed, we could either pick and go a few times or throw it behind the line to get around the rush'. barely a pick and go all game, and it was only in desperation when chasing the game that we threw in some depth to get around the rush - which promptly worked - except then when we made breaks, we were so totally lacking in composure that we forced dumb shit low percentage passes, or kicked the damn fucking ball away yet again. pack of fucking morons.
barnes is still a shit ref, inconsistent and doesn't seem to understand when a ruck forms. he had nothing to do with the loss however.
to the players:
karl T got a bit of a rough ride, but not as bad as some are making out. 2 scrums went badly, and 1 barnes should have reset. why barnes didn't blow their scrum when we were dominant i don't know. franks was solid, as was taylor, and all the replacements were good too. poor old ofa showed great hands to hold that piece of shit perenara pass - but when you have to catch that slop you're always going to get barrelled and struggle to win the ruck.
BBR his worst, and whitelock pretty poor too by his standards. scott barrett played well, was our best lock, but was playing out of position which fucks our forward balance.
squire was okay before injury, ardie at least tried hard, and read was rank. dropped everything, hasn't run hard into contact in about 3 years, and is a shitty captain. the way the irish were playing, and the way barnes was reffing, the player in our 23 most suited to that game was matt todd. bit disappointed he didn't manage to win it for us in his 3 FUCKING MINUTES YOU MORONS.
aaron smith's kicking is nowhere near as accurate as it was against the lions. he is still so much better than perenara -because he can actually pass - but if we don't have the brains to use smith's speed to get around the rush then he's wasted, and why not use a bigger running halfback.
BB. well it's pretty fucking limiting when your 10's weakest skill is his passing. also dumb. also doesn't appear to care a great deal. also thinks wasting try-scoring opportunities with drop-goals is a good idea, and funny. can run, can catch a high ball.
crotty and goodhue were both really pretty good given the shit they were served up. 20-something touches vs 40-something for the irish midfield wasn't it?
ben smith no ball. can run.
rieko no ball. no composure. can run.
mckenzie, not bad, but we are wasting ben smith on the wing.
to ireland: well bloody played, a good plan, well executed. you knew exactly what we were going to do, because we do it all the time (keeping our powder dry hahaha fuck me) . we box kick and put up high balls. you dealt with that easily. you know that if you rush, we will chip. you covered that easily then kept the ball. you knew that we throw our ruck ball to forwards one or two off the ruck - you got up quick on them and we never made the gain line.
great fire and commitment from all on the park, and an inspirational and thoroughly deserved victory, which i could really have done without watching.
rant over. as you were everyone.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Because he's fucking dumb
I reckon Ardie playing 8 in the first place was fucking dumb. It only happened because Cane was named captain so was untouchable at 7, and it has fucked our loosie balance for years.
Now Ardie at 8 is untouchable apparently.
Man, I know he used to be everyone's favourite player but the hyperbole on BB's performance is a bit crazy. Did some really good things for sure, but also put a kick into touch on the full, kicked the ball away aimlessly when we had an overlap, and put in one of his usual dog-shit exits. Total rocks and diamonds, but I'm reading 10/10 performance and some saying he has game management and ought to be starting at 10 - sorry but that's fucking mad - he has always played good cameos against tired legs, and he has never displayed good game management despite a shitload of opportunities.
Ratima, as expected, made a big difference to everything happening outside him. Backs need fast ball. I can only wonder whether we've become complacent about that fact due to having Smith for so long. Christie played well and is a super defender, but he just isn't what we need.
McKenzie continues to create most of our oportunities.
That's the worst I've seen Telea play. You don't pick him for pace, but you still need him to finish that movement somehow, or at the least recycle, not throw the ball away. Yeah Perofeta should have gone the other way, but that is a smaller error than Telea's. Aside from that, he was targeted by the poms positionally, and looked like an 18 year old Jonah vs France on defence.
Savea hasn't been top 3 loosies in either game. World player of not-this-year so far. Finau quiet, but expectations on him ought to be a bit lower.
Lineout was terrible. Very, very lucky to get away with a win against a top tier team when we turned that much ball over.
Good scrum, largely good rucks.
@gt12 said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Hooroo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@canefan said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Hooroo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Salacious-Crumb said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@booboo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
#1. Brad Thorn securing lineout ball 80th min Final 2011.
Up to that “moment” my asshole had never been tighter my entire life.
For me it is when a shattered Stephen Donald was tackled on one side of the park and got turned over at the ruck, France spun it to the other side of the field and the first tackle made since the turnover was Donald on the other side of the field.
The guy was running on pure Columbian grade uncut adrenalin.
That's how legends are born. I don't think he probably has to buy himself beers when he's out on the town in NZ
Deadset, I will always buy him a beer if he is in the same pub!
This may sound a bit strange, but it’s something I’m looking forward to being able to do - I’m sure at some stage in my life I’ll be in the same room as him, and at that point the drinks will be on me. I can’t wait.
That reminds me of my favorite JK story - I met him in Tokyo one evening when I was out on a date with a very good looking girl (sadly hot crazy was in full effect though). I quickly talked to him on the way in (thanks, you’re a legend etc), then he stopped by our table on his way out (he was Japan coach at the time I think) to briefly say hi, making it seem like I kind of knew him (even though he was a complete stranger of course). Then gave me a greeeeat look like ‘get in there!’ and left, and I did, until the crazy fully developed.
great wing man JK.
On Sotutu, I am kinda sick of people saying "both sides of the ball" to criticise him. If they really mean both sides, then how about criticising, i dunno, everyone fucking else for not being able to do what he does on the attacking side of the ball?
It's just bizarre. Every decision ever made puts all of the onus on the defender to get it right. This impact caused a severe injury, but they are mitigating it because the defender didn't supply enough of the momentum? That's effectively saying it is Retallicks fault for running hard.
Despite the defender having plenty of time to go low, and deciding to go high on a 6'8" lock.
I give up.
Pathetic. Lomax outplayed on starting debut, Coles stupid then Taylor shit lineouts. Moody okay I guess, bit flat. Pat a bit flat too. Whitelock tried hard in a well beaten pack. Cane looks a bit knackered. Savea is, again, a lightweight against big teams playing fast defence and makes no impact. He should have been subbed rather than Frizzel, at least then we would have had someone make a few more tackles and hit some rucks. And you'd also be leaving on the guy who just had a rest, and taking off the guy who hasn't. Sotutu tried hard once on, a couple of good runs and had the skip pass execution been on - as it usually is - we'd have been in with a chance. Vaai went okay too.
In the backs, just anonymous, the lot of them. It almost seems like it might be an NZR directive to have Goodhue play 12 at the crusaders, trying to develop a combination with mo'unga, and foster is sticking to that... unfortunately it is wrong. goodhue is a gun at centre, and he's being wasted.
as for refusing to bring webber on for the hopeless TJ last week, then dragging smith early... christ, make up your mind.
i guess this is what you get when you pick a coach who has never won anything. It was good to hear JK, another coach who hasn't won anything, get stuck in a bit. At least when JK couldn't coach for shit what he got was sacked, rather than promoted to the ABs job.
Well done Argentina, thoroughly deserved. Nico Sanchez runs a bit hot and cold, but when he's on, he really is world class. Combine that with 14 blokes tackling their arses off and it's a good recipe - that was a hell of a defensive effort.
How dare someone leave people open to criticism in public eh Steve? Best you criticise them in public for that.
Your closed doors is how we got Foster in the first place. The hiring process was abysmal, ruled out all the good options deliberately so your mate could get the job. And the organisation, having previously wheeled out bullshit like 'coaches must have international experience' when it suited, then pick a guy without any head coach success in NZ, let alone inernationally.
Zero integrity.
I give as much of a shit about the coaches body language as I do about Sotutu's i.e. none.
What I do give a fuck about it is the fucking moron putting Barrett back at 10, and thereby basically giving up our intention and ability to score points other than by acts of individual brilliance. When was the last time BB, playing at 10, put a player in space by passing?
That consistency of selection at 10 was really the one bright spot in terms of seeing Robertson working towards something, and now he's chucked it - and on what basis? Beauden's mediocre run against a beaten Wallabies, where McKenzie came on and instantly the backline started functioning? What a fucking clown.
It does not strike me as a great England team, our forwards are decent and we have Jordan and Clarke for a bit of brilliance, so we should still have the firepower to win - but I really have no idea what the fuck we are trying to achieve anymore.
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.
[edit - forked from a match thread]
The more I think about the Barrett selection the grumpier I get. It now genuinely looks like Robertson's plan for the All Blacks is simply to bide time until his pet Mo'unga comes back. What a fucking dud move. The legacy of the All Blacks, the most successful team of all time, put on hold while some never-was glorified touch player makes some coin offshore.
Fuck's sake Razor, grow a pair.
Scott Robertson has turned out to be a fucking tool.
Jesus, the McKenzie criticism is a bit over the top. As others have said he was involved in most of the tries, one bad error, and some seem to think he's worst on the field?
Meanwhile Rieko makes pretty much the same error, runs Reece out of space then throws a rank pass into touch, and he's best on the park?
The only difference I can see is that Caleb Clarke turned one of the errors into a try, but he seems to be getting a free pass...
Shit super season sure, but a good game last night.
It's just so fucking lazy. Come in with a pre-prepared question which he answers in his initial comments, but go ahead and ask it anyway. Sack these useless fluffybunnies and employ someone who gives a shit.
Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.