The Silver Fern

@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

I hope Reiko didn't miss his flight home.
Karma's a bitch.

This sort of sledge only really works for someone going home early. Good attempt though. Well, not really

@sparky said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

Worst All Blacks team of the last 50 years?

Certainly the least entertaining and likeable that I can remember.

This forum really is a crack up. Worst team in 50 years, before even seeing how they went in the second half. Sums up this thread (and every match thread)

I'm happy with Wayne Barnes, he keeps the game moving and won't allow the faking of injuries to slow it down. He's not a shadow of the ref who choked in 2007.
I'm nervous and hopeful, I see it as a 50-50 match. Mind boggling to me to see how many people think we have no chance. We are still the All Blacks and we have some magnificent players. The return of several key players after the France match is huge. If we can't get up for this one, we'll never get excited about a match.
We've got to start strong, hit them hard and slowly start putting the doubts in their minds that we used to get when favourites at a world cup. I hope there are no silly cards for accidental head clashes (but if there is, they go to Ireland this time). Come on Boys!

@NTA "Why did Wayne Barnes not overturn the Savea penalty?

Because he can't.

Why?

Because imagine if after every decision the ref looked at the screen and then decided if it was correct."

That's exactly what they do already.

@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

I thought Wayne Barnes had a good game, especially in the last 20. He understood the stakes, let the players decide the game without it descending into a free-for-all

But he'd all but sealed the fate of the match well before that. The Frizzell yellow was worse than Kolisi not getting a red. Not to mention the bizarre rulings around the ruck

Oh this is such loser mentality.

The Boks were up by less than a converted try through most of the half. The last 15 they were up by a point.

The ABs had a mountain of ball and plenty of it in the Boks 22. But thanks to good Bok defence and a few crucial errors under pressure the All Blacks couldn't score. That's rugby and that's why they were the better team on the day... just.

But apparently the match was sealed thanks to a few decisions in the first 50. Not sure why the All Blacks even bothered to play.

The All Blacks did score.

Kind of weird to say a dodgy yellow and early red didn't impact the match. Or just a bad attempt at trolling

Of course it impacted the match, but that's not what you said. You said it 'all but sealed the fate of the game'.

It didn't. The All Blacks had plenty of scoring chances, and as you point out they took one. Game was still plenty alive and if Mo'unga converts then they might well have won.

Sorry, but it did. That we still had a chance was amazing. But in the end, it determined the outcome. Mind boggling this is even a discussion point

@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

Apologies for the admittedly blatant trolling. I should remember not to lower my standards to the dickheads that I'm annoyed about.
Tough luck in the final. It was a coin toss. Just like the QF and all of the SA games. I wanted the NZ style of rugby to triumph but puke rugby wins trophies now unfortunately.
The officiating of the game needs to evolve and change to encourage positive rugby.

So you're a butthurt Irish fan? Your team has never made a semi and you're mouthing off at a team that extremely controversially lost a final by one point. Gold

Read back the thread from during the match. I guess this is where the always unhappy, complain about everything, bitter old bastards who used to call Radio Sport hang out these days? What an embarrassment to read.

@akan004 Not to mention the fact that the penalty they were awarded which led to that lineout should have been the other way round. He goes off his feet then gets back up.

@Dodge This is a wind up surely? It wasn't just the cards. He ignored SA high shots, admitted he got the Ardie penalty wrong but gave them 3 points anyway, let them away with murder at the ruck, ignored their knock ons and forward passes.

RIP rugby, that was a great advertisement for NRL or almost any other sport. Just gutting that the biggest match on the world stage gets decided by officials

@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@Richie8-7 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@No-Quarter said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@reprobate I am TRYING to be positive here!!

To try to counter that point, I think the impact of their forwards tiring is less in the modern game given you can replace so much of your pack in the 2nd 40. If we'd built a lead during that period you could say that it had a big impact, but as it stands it was them that went ahead, so I don't think the impact of that card was as bad as it could have been for Ireland.

Yeah sorry to bring you down bro.
It's less impactful, but I think it's still a pretty big deal: 20 minutes with 14 you may do well to limit the damage, but still have the fatigue from that effort affect you late in the game.
Think I'm right in saying that Beirne is one of their 80 minute guys too? (and he's certainly a workhorse).

We had 20 minutes with 14 in 2023 against a much better Irish side and still won.

Not sure that's a great example. We started really well, and had to make a mountain of tackles and hang on for grim death late in the game to scrape the win because of those cards. Sam Whitelock with the turnover after 30+ phases, and I think Jordie also held someone up over the line? Replay that game 100 x and I think most times we lose it because of the cards.

So an example of a match where a team won is not a good example of a team winning with 14 players for 20 minutes? Good lord. Ireland didn't just lose on Sunday, they got hammered 4 tries to 1 and the final score flattered them.

Ireland also should have had a yellow card in 2023 for a high tackle that was never reviewed after we kicked a 50-22. And in that last play there were 2 forward passes, neck roll on Ioane and a clear penalty won by Ardie. So not only did we win with 14 players for 20 mins, we won against the tide of terrible decisions.

@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

I thought Wayne Barnes had a good game, especially in the last 20. He understood the stakes, let the players decide the game without it descending into a free-for-all

But he'd all but sealed the fate of the match well before that. The Frizzell yellow was worse than Kolisi not getting a red. Not to mention the bizarre rulings around the ruck

@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

On the red card: I think it was very much the unexpected pass that caused the contact to go that way - and that it was unexpected because BB had already over-run Roigard, hence the forward pass query.
If Beauden didn't have to catch at ball he wasn't expecting right at the line, he would have braced for impact too and it would have been the standard thing that happens all game every game. Just very unlucky.
I find it hard to believe that Beirne is going to deliberately shoulder charge someone in the head from a completely upright position while making zero attempt to tackle, because if he did that on a regular basis, he'd be getting red carded in every game, would be renowned as a thug, and wouldn't be picked because his actions would lose games.
The consistency/inconsistency in rulings is a completely different issue, but that sort of incident being a red card I think is bad for the game. As BB himself said, at least it was only 20 minutes.

I don't think it was deliberate either. It was reckless though, and easily warranted a red card by the current rules and recent interpretations

@sparky said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@Richie8-7 See you in the next match thread, everyone's most welcome to contribute!

During the match I'm usually watching the match.

I didn't know we'd win for the first 60 and found it pretty frustrating. This team is a long way off where we need to be and expect to be as All Blacks fans. But "worst All Black team in 50 years" in the first half of a match we won by 13 (and could easily have won by 20), away from home against a supposedly top tier team seems slightly ridiculous. That's 2 in a row now where we've played well for maybe 20 minutes and ended up winning comfortably away from home against decent teams. Great All Black team? A long way off. But worst ever? I don't think so.

So I just started listening to the Rugby Daily podcast ranking the world cups. Worst and second worst were 1987 and 2011. I get 1987, it wasn't a big event or anywhere near fully formed. But the criticism of 2011 included gems like "it needs a country to get behind it" and "the weather was terrible". Is my memory completely failing me? I saw every match and can't remember any terrible weather. I was at the final in perfect weather and massive drama. Compared to say 2007, it was miles ahead. 2007 certainly didn't have one country behind it, the winners didn't play a hard match (will try not to mention why...). 2015 was great for us and I thought the rugby was pretty good, but the hosts going out in the pools surely didn't help.

Then we got Bryan Habana speaking for 10 minutes about 1995. Great for South Africa as a country, yes, but seriously dodgy in how they won it (both the semi and the final).

An interesting fact about world cups is there have often been 2 teams obviously destined to meet in the final in a heavyweight clash but it happens so rarely. 2023, 2015, 1995 being the exceptions. I guess you could argue 1991 given we were always going to meet Australia in the semi-final.

We get Nigel Owens. Great news...I can live with him not being card happy, even though it saved Ireland several times.

@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@Richie8-7 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

@barbarian said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:

I thought Wayne Barnes had a good game, especially in the last 20. He understood the stakes, let the players decide the game without it descending into a free-for-all

But he'd all but sealed the fate of the match well before that. The Frizzell yellow was worse than Kolisi not getting a red. Not to mention the bizarre rulings around the ruck

Oh this is such loser mentality.

The Boks were up by less than a converted try through most of the half. The last 15 they were up by a point.

The ABs had a mountain of ball and plenty of it in the Boks 22. But thanks to good Bok defence and a few crucial errors under pressure the All Blacks couldn't score. That's rugby and that's why they were the better team on the day... just.

But apparently the match was sealed thanks to a few decisions in the first 50. Not sure why the All Blacks even bothered to play.

The All Blacks did score.

Kind of weird to say a dodgy yellow and early red didn't impact the match. Or just a bad attempt at trolling

@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@Richie8-7 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@Richie8-7 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@No-Quarter said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@reprobate I am TRYING to be positive here!!

To try to counter that point, I think the impact of their forwards tiring is less in the modern game given you can replace so much of your pack in the 2nd 40. If we'd built a lead during that period you could say that it had a big impact, but as it stands it was them that went ahead, so I don't think the impact of that card was as bad as it could have been for Ireland.

Yeah sorry to bring you down bro.
It's less impactful, but I think it's still a pretty big deal: 20 minutes with 14 you may do well to limit the damage, but still have the fatigue from that effort affect you late in the game.
Think I'm right in saying that Beirne is one of their 80 minute guys too? (and he's certainly a workhorse).

We had 20 minutes with 14 in 2023 against a much better Irish side and still won.

Not sure that's a great example. We started really well, and had to make a mountain of tackles and hang on for grim death late in the game to scrape the win because of those cards. Sam Whitelock with the turnover after 30+ phases, and I think Jordie also held someone up over the line? Replay that game 100 x and I think most times we lose it because of the cards.

So an example of a match where a team won is not a good example of a team winning with 14 players for 20 minutes? Good lord. Ireland didn't just lose on Sunday, they got hammered 4 tries to 1 and the final score flattered them.

Ireland also should have had a yellow card in 2023 for a high tackle that was never reviewed after we kicked a 50-22. And in that last play there were 2 forward passes, neck roll on Ioane and a clear penalty won by Ardie. So not only did we win with 14 players for 20 mins, we won against the tide of terrible decisions.

It can be done, and obviously happens sometimes - but, "good lord", that doesn't mean the card doesn't matter.
We took the lead in about the 60th minute. They were poor, sure. But if we aren't in front for 3/4 of the game, I don't really think it's a hammering.

The card does matter of course, which is why you shouldn't make a no arms tackle with a shoulder to the head. I was saying it is still possible to win.

And yes, it is a hammering. It's an 80 minute game, not 60. 33-13 would have been a fair reflection. If the score at 60 minutes had any relevance there wouldn't be so much angst about the Springboks match in Wellington.

@ShitMcCaw I love this. You lost when it counted. No ref giving us red cards for accidental head clashes which is basically what gave you a series in NZ.

Maybe you'll be back to challenge us again. It will have to be in the pool or the quarter final though because semi-finals and beyond are for the big boys

Really good first half, although far from perfect. Followed by possibly the most brainless 20 minutes I've ever seen. Then DMac with an elite few minutes, 50-22, amazing finish then brilliant kick for goal. I hope we're getting closer to an 80 minute performance, we'll need close to that next week. Those yellow cards, my goodness. 2 were epic brain fades and you could even argue that Ardie's was extremely dumb, if he actually had any control in that position. I wonder if they practice defensive mauls that are going backwards - practice letting them score without giving away a penalty try + card, when a try is inevitable. Adding the yellow on top of conceding is catastrophic and was almost fatal to our chances.

@reprobate said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@No-Quarter said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:

@reprobate I am TRYING to be positive here!!

To try to counter that point, I think the impact of their forwards tiring is less in the modern game given you can replace so much of your pack in the 2nd 40. If we'd built a lead during that period you could say that it had a big impact, but as it stands it was them that went ahead, so I don't think the impact of that card was as bad as it could have been for Ireland.

Yeah sorry to bring you down bro.
It's less impactful, but I think it's still a pretty big deal: 20 minutes with 14 you may do well to limit the damage, but still have the fatigue from that effort affect you late in the game.
Think I'm right in saying that Beirne is one of their 80 minute guys too? (and he's certainly a workhorse).

We had 20 minutes with 14 in 2023 against a much better Irish side and still won.