@Catogrande history is written by the victors. JB slots that 74th min penalty and we are potentially talking about AB resilience and fortitude to overcome a 1 man disadvantage against the no 1 team in the world.
Maybe the ABs would have defended the Boks with another 37 phase shutout like against Ireland.
Anyway, he didn’t kick it and we are talking about the Boks being mentality monsters. Small margins!
@Victor-Meldrew “apart from Smith”…you could just have stopped there. Maybe people now appreciate how much Smith brought to the AB backline. He sits alongside McCaw and Carter as one of the modern greats.
He was more than just a bullet pass. He was the link between forwards and backs, the brains of the operation and had tonnes of game sense. He bossed things and his standards were sky high. He was also cool as a cucumber. TJP is an experienced player, but compared to Smith he is half the player for bringing calm and precision alone.
Smith’s loss alone has been seismic for NZ in how they want to play. Ratima has a fast pass and pace, but he has nowhere near the decision making ability. Roigard has pace and power, but he too won’t make decisions and corral the forwards like Smith did.
Smith and Carter were an all time great combo. Smith allowed Beauden time and space to use his athletic abilities. Smith gave Mo’unga time and space to play in.
Everyone knew NZ were losing a great playerwhen he moved on. Now, they realise he was more than that to the way NZ play.
So what did Foster learn from this performance this week? Which building blocks are close together exactly and which ones are miles apart?
I can't remember the last time I saw such a toothless AB attack. Boks didn't have to do much, if anything. Just make their tackles and wait for an AB mistake.
There was heart and effort on defence. But those should be a given.
Samisoni played well. Lineout went well. Scrum got better. Young props got better.
Backrow had no platform to work off. AB backline looks very confused. How many times did players receive the ball standing still? I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked. These players aren't as bad as they are playing.
Not sure why it was a controversial call. There were several Wallaby players screaming to kick the ball. They knew.
The ABs celebrating at the end was relief. Remember when Jonah scored the winning try in 2000 after the ABs had raced into a 21-0 lead, only to blow that lead and be outplayed by Oz. Same sort of thing here really.
I thought Oz did well to make the game into a dogfight. Dare I say that ABs lost control after Cane was forced to depart?
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@kiwi_expat was just watching Mehrts on 'between two posts'. Low budget Stan production that produces more insights and engagement than the expensive but anodyne Breakdown
Any pearls to share?
That could have been worse 
@antipodean it is only Tuesday. Best ease up on the drinking if you hope to see the final 
@Victor-Meldrew Discipline. That is the big thing for me. The ABs are unable to exert sufficient pressure on their opponents for long enough without gifting a relieving penalty. Teams are waiting for the ABs to make a mistake or infringe. And they do.
For the ABs to advance much further, the penalty count cannot be above 10 (given what SA, France and Ireland are achieving right now), and they cannot lose a man to a yellow or red (obviously).
Not a single knock on from NZ all night 
Of all the things I've seen discussed, I think the ABs should be focused on their defensive system, ball retention and territorial kicking game. They win world cups. Focus on keeping teams at the right end of the pitch and squeezing them into mistakes. NZ have shown that they are still capable of capitalising on transitions. The talent is there.
Too many teams are scoring 25+ points against NZ these days. Below 20 and NZ are still looking ok.
@98blueandgold said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@stodders Agree 100% with that, I said that in an earlier post up above. but past that point still I think we have seen the writing on the wall for a few years in terms of our development of players.
Everything goes in cycles. SA lost their way for a while and everyone talked about the Boks sinking into obscurity. Now, they are reigning world champions and consistently in the top 3 in the world.
Maybe NZ needs to consider whether the development pathways are finding the right types of characters, not just the most talented players/athletes.
Players like Shannon Frizell aren't the future. ABs need some fight, some mongrel. They don't need bullies who go timid when the opposition fight back. Times have changed and cameras pick up the dark arts. But ABs need more Samisoni's - teak tough and ready to fight for every yard. Forget the fancy plays. Simplify the gameplan like the Boks had to and start again, from step 1. Then build up.
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@stodders when did Wayne Smith leave ABs ? October 2017? It can take a while for a good team to slide ...
Yep. Smith was brilliant at helping forge the right culture within the team.
When McCaw and Carter left and Nonu, Smith, Mealamu to an extent, some of the high standards they set didn't seem to be continued, or they dropped slightly within the team. But McCaw's leadership was all about training properly, preparing properly, executing properly.
Read's style of captaincy was a bit more laissez faire for me. McCaw wasn't a friend to the players (or didn't appear to be from the outside). He seemed more aloof. Read was more about the camaraderie and more in tune emotionally with the playing group.
Read was a brilliant deputy to McCaw. He led through deed. When he became Captain, I got the feeling that the standards set by McCaw were not maintained because Read wanted to do things his own way. Hansen didn't fill the gap that the senior leadership had been filling, and so over time standards eroded. But a winning habit is hard to break, and so the team won more than they possibly should have post-2015.
But once the losses began and doubts crept in, the drive for excellence and maintaining standards that was demanded by McCaw wasn't fully there anymore. The culture had morphed and didn't support it. And so, we are where we are at now. The players are still good enough, but the culture isn't conducive to get high quality performances out on a consistent basis.
@booboo I know a fair few Bok fans. Pretty level headed for the most part. Patriotic, love their team and have confidence in them.
Every country has their fair share of dickheads. SA is no different.
What sometimes sounds like arrogance is IMO bravado - deep down, there is fear. The Boks are an escape for many in SA; a chance to escape the corruption, the decay, the harshness of life that is for many no fault of their own. They are a team their supporters believe in and that unity is powerful.
Do they have a great team currently? Yes. Do they go overboard at times? Yep. But when life throws you lemons, sometimes your sporting teams are all you have left to cling to.
@hydro11 said in Foster must go:
It's hard to accept that that Irish team should beat us in a series at home. They really shouldn't based on talent. However, they are just much smarter than us.
I think we make a mistake by focusing too much on Foster. I don't really understand why Laulala did that in his own 22 in the first half. An Irish prop doesn't do that. They know better. That's a fundamental error in the way we play rugby as a nation - not just down to Foster.
But, yes, Foster must go.
Irish team is dominated by Leinster, the top team in Ireland and one of the best in Europe. Their combinations are tried and tested. The Irish coaches can add in players from the other provinces to enrich the team and layer on specific tactics onto an already well functioning team.
The ABs used to have a similar feel. The players knew each other and the combinations worked. That isn't the case anymore and it shows.
Ireland = a very good team greater than the sum of its parts
NZ = a poor team less than sum of its parts
NZ head coach sets the culture of the team and the environment the players work in. Foster may have done ok as an assistant under Hansen, but he's not performed as head coach. His assistants aren't performing well under his leadership either.
Too much evidence to ignore now. No excuses about COVID or lockdowns or injuries. Foster had his best players available. It resulted in a series defeat. At home.
@Jet fitness of the starters isn’t the issue. Lomax and Williams were both going well past 60 mins. Taylor went 80.
The issue is that the quality coming off the bench is unable to maintain the levels of the starting XV. ABs bench used to raise the performance levels in last 20. If that were the case today, the game was there to be won.
One of the keys for Robertson is to find the right mix of bench players to inject impetus and maintain performance, or even better, raise it to get that late game surge working again.
The other is to stop the mistakes. Sometimes there is a time to play. Sometimes there is a time to work from set piece to set piece and be patient. Patience is lacking in the ABs right now and it shows in the leaders.
The good news is that the current AB team and coaches were not far from winning both tests in SA against the reigning world champs and current leading SH nation. ABs have been measured and have seen their limitations. Now the major work starts.
@MiketheSnow Absolutely Mike. Glad it is back. All is right with the world again!
On the flip side, there was no chance for trolling South Africans to get their gloat in over the u20s WC final win. Maybe the admins foresaw it
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
ABs have been much better in 2nd half, but terrible in the first.
Should have been two red cards.
Ignore the red cards. That's just a lottery. ABs can't beat a team with 15 players. They've had enough ball and field position to do it.
@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@FakatavaAllBlack
I really dont mean to put the boot in, but that is like third of the team. In the 20 odd years that i have been following the All Blacks I can't remember a time when there were so many holes to fill all at the same time.
As Springboks supporter ive seen us many times compounding one disaster with another while All Blacks were the model of consistently building a better side. Theyd deal with issues as they arise. On the rare occasion that they werent the best team in the world they were always one or two tweaks away from getting there.
This is the first time when i have seen all Blacks have multiple issues to resolve all at the same time.
I don't think foster is a good coach, but next man in that position will have very tough job.
Hi Sid. Personally, I don't think the personnel are the major problem. Sure, the players aren't as good as the 2015 team, but that isn't the main issue.
Whatever gameplan has been decided upon by Foster, it either hasn't been communicated effectively, or, it isn't the right plan for the test arena. Time moves on. The ABs are behind the curve in terms of where test rugby has moved onto.
For example, the ABs used to use their fitness and dynamism to wear teams down and blast them away in the last 20 mins. That just doesn't happen anymore. The game is too stop/start and the fitness of other teams has caught up, so any advantage is minimal. Add into that the drop in basic skill execution by the ABs when under pressure, and you have a problem.
Foster won the coaching ticket on the back of saying that he would evolve the team from where it had stagnated under Hansen, and yet, there has been no real evolution. Now the ABs are faced with needing a revolution as their play has become stale.
Many questions were asked of the Boks when they lost 57-0 in 2017. The players that went to the RWC were available (bar a couple that came through late on), but the gameplan the players were being asked to play didn't suit them. They played like they didn't know or trust each other. Rassie simplified things down and created an environment that everyone bought into.
Foster may be a decent hands on coach, but he has presided over the development of a poor culture in a team that used to pride itself on having the highest of standards. It doesn't anymore, and it shows. The players need some leadership to be shown to them, much like what Henry had to do in 2004. Is Foster capable of that? I don't think it is in his nature, so the answer is no.
So what is left is the decision to bring in an outsider, not tainted by being part of the current regime, to sweep the floors out and start again.
The RWC 2023 is gone for NZ. They might fluke it, but the plan has to be long term now. Each test needs to be treated as if it is the last and the high standards and high performance culture needs to be reinstalled.
Until that happens, SS All Black will keep on listing and take further damage.
https://x.com/marchintonnz/status/1710980773807800483?s=46&t=Xyr9rqvpyxuZ6mu4OxMcYA
Foster says Lomax is improving. Not ruled out of QF
@MiketheSnow BOK gave the French plenty of chances to play. He gave them some of the rub of the green too. As he did the Boks. He didn't knock the ball on or drop the expected barrage of high kicks, last time i checked.
If France had caught the ball twice and the prop had not tried to flick the ball that was bobbling on the ground (dive on it!), SA would not have had the chance to score the first 3 of their tries. Unfortunately for them, they did and they SA were good enough to capitalise.
Ireland said NZ sucker punched them with their 3rd try on Saturday from first phase. The first 3 SA tries were a trio of sucker punches lovingly gift wrapped by the French through high ball ineptitude. I mean, they must have known the kicks were going to come, no?
