Italy v All Blacks

booboo

@MiketheSnow said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Jet said in Italy v All Blacks:

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:

The selection philosophy from Razor and his team this year can only be described as either ultra conservative, picking all the same players Fozzie couldn't move on from, or anti-Blues / pro-Crusaders players. Even Sititi our breakout player of the year only made the squad as they were desperate to exclude Hoskins and Akira, and then only got a chance through injury to teachers pet Blackadder. I am struggling to think of a single inspired selection this year TBH. It's exactly the opposite of what I expected after reading the Razor fluffers go on about how professional and innovative he is.

I for one welcomed him aboard, but I expected far more than this from a selection standpoint, both in overall squad and in selections for this gameday. Just flaccid

I was thoroughly underwhelmed leading into the autumn internationals and predicted we would lose all of the big three games against ENG, IRE and FRA.

We won two and the sun started to rise.

Subsequently England have lost to everyone, and Ireland were very lucky to beat Argentina, having not scored after the 35th minute onwards I believe. Some very dubious reffing kept them in it.

Which with my barstool maths, leads me to believe that England are shite and Ireland are on a downward trajectory.

So where are we really?

I cant fathom how in 2024, Beaudy, Cane, TJP, ALB and Havili are still in and around the squad, never mind the run on team. Now thats not to say they arent the best available, but where is the production line?

Cane and Beaudy are legends and have given us some great days and great moments, some even recently granted, but normally with NZ we always ask if a player retired too soon or was cut unfairly ala Cullen. Now we have guys stat padding their cap tally and over staying their welcomes.

Im not used to wanting to see the back of players who wore the fern with pride.

But I am sick of the sight of some of them.

Razor has underwhelmed and Razor Inc is guilty of false advertising.

This is 2023 standard with better P.R and marketing.

The culture is definitely cosy (has been since 2017 Lions Tour) and there are far too many punters in there who are used to losing test matches.

They wont be writing "high performance" audiobooks about this iteration of the Allblacks anyway.

England could easily be 2-1

We could easily have been 2-0 v SA and 1-0 v France ... what ifs ...

All we've got are actual results.

If my memory serves correctly our results to date are:

4 from 7 of games identified as potential losses or 50/50s
5 from 6 (with one to play) of games we expected to win.

Not historically bad. But that loss to Argies is the real blot.

antipodean

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

Harry Plummer

Who will forget his one and only cap. Two minutes on the field and didn't touch the ball. Great coaching.

canefan

@Victor-Meldrew said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:

I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.

Core team with a few changes, happy with that.

Well, that the likes of Sititi and Lakia slotted in pretty seamlessly when their "key" players were injured is a credit to Robertson and co. I guess.

But if they are waiting to see who develops in Super Rugby next year, then you have to ask what they were actually doing this year...

The best selector in Razor's team this year was injury. I don't think it's outrageous to say that if Razor had been able to select the team he wanted every week, Wallace would have been lucky to make the bench

canefan

@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish is Perofeta really a youngster?

Perofeta is a nearly man, standing in the way of us finding someone young and better for 2027

ARHS

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

New caps that played (significant minutes) against strong opposition:
Pasilio Tosi
Sam Darry
Wallace Sititi
Pete Lakai
Cortez Ratima

Other new caps:
George Bell
Noah Hotham
Harry Plummer
Billy Proctor
Ruben Love

Unused players brought into the squad:
Brodie McAlister
Fabian Holland
Christian Lio-Willie
Du'Plessis Kirifi
AJ Lam
Chay Fihaki

Youngsters that played (significant minutes) against experienced opposition:
Samipeni Finau
Cam Roigard
Stephen Perofeta

Other youngsters:
Josh Lord
Emoni Narawa

Think that's everyone?

You are missing Slater, Walker Leawere and Haig for starters. This group are not good at keeping the fans informed on who is coming and going.

Machpants

@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:

see who develops in super

I wouldn't hold my breath on this season's evidence.

I dunno, crusaders are a team on the up

canefan

Mr Fish

@ARHS said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

New caps that played (significant minutes) against strong opposition:
Pasilio Tosi
Sam Darry
Wallace Sititi
Pete Lakai
Cortez Ratima

Other new caps:
George Bell
Noah Hotham
Harry Plummer
Billy Proctor
Ruben Love

Unused players brought into the squad:
Brodie McAlister
Fabian Holland
Christian Lio-Willie
Du'Plessis Kirifi
AJ Lam
Chay Fihaki

Youngsters that played (significant minutes) against experienced opposition:
Samipeni Finau
Cam Roigard
Stephen Perofeta

Other youngsters:
Josh Lord
Emoni Narawa

Think that's everyone?

You are missing Slater, Walker Leawere and Haig for starters. This group are not good at keeping the fans informed on who is coming and going.

I've sort ofintentionally left out guys who were just injury cover for a week because there was never really any chance of them featuring but possible I got one or two wrong. Gilbert was in there as a body at one point too.

Jet

@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish is Perofeta really a youngster?

I watched Perofeta steer the Blues around to beat the British and Irish Lions 7 years ago.

Jet

@antipodean said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

Harry Plummer

Who will forget his one and only cap. Two minutes on the field and didn't touch the ball. Great coaching.

I know nothing more about Plummer, Narawa, AJ Lam, Proctor (and Love to an extent), than I did before they came on tour.

A waste of Kerosene.

Mr Fish

@Jet said in Italy v All Blacks:

@antipodean said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

Harry Plummer

Who will forget his one and only cap. Two minutes on the field and didn't touch the ball. Great coaching.

I know nothing more about Plummer, Narawa, AJ Lam, Proctor (and Love to an extent), than I did before they came on tour.

A waste of Kerosene.

To be fair, it's probably quite a bit more important that Robertson knows more about these guys than you and I'm sure he's learned a lot about them.

nostrildamus

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Jet said in Italy v All Blacks:

@antipodean said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

Harry Plummer

Who will forget his one and only cap. Two minutes on the field and didn't touch the ball. Great coaching.

I know nothing more about Plummer, Narawa, AJ Lam, Proctor (and Love to an extent), than I did before they came on tour.

A waste of Kerosene.

To be fair, it's probably quite a bit more important that Robertson knows more about these guys than you and I'm sure he's learned a lot about them.

That's fair but I'd say seeing them actually play in a test is the best test.
And I still don't understand why they play Havili not Lam.

KiwiMurph

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

Bovidae

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

And I still don't understand why they play Havili not Lam.

It would be an admission that they got the original squad selection wrong.

canefan

@Bovidae said in Italy v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

And I still don't understand why they play Havili not Lam.

It would be an admission that they got the original squad selection wrong.

Stuff that. Just play the guys that are most capable. No more teacher's pets

nostrildamus

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think we agree there isn't much reason. Havili is a test 12, not a 13 or a 10, no longer a 15, and we have plenty of ex / part-time 15s.

MN5

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think we agree there isn't much reason. Havili is a test 12, not a 13 or a 10, no longer a 15, and we have plenty of ex / part-time 15s.

Even that’s optimistic

nostrildamus

@MN5 said in Italy v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus said in Italy v All Blacks:

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I think we agree there isn't much reason. Havili is a test 12, not a 13 or a 10, no longer a 15, and we have plenty of ex / part-time 15s.

Even that’s optimistic

Yeah I read it again and thought why was I so nice? I don't rate him at 12 either. When he started under Foster I saw the potential but I really don't think he has been good enough in any position he played in to get the selections he has - then again I am no AB coach.

Crazy Horse

@KiwiMurph said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

And the argument for Havili over Lam in the 23 jersey for this hypothetical backline would be what exactly? Given the 3 players above all cover 10 and 15?

I have said this a number of times, I am not a fan of Havilii, but I can get his selection over Lam, at this stage. Lam has not had a lot of time in the midfield, and owing to the way the Blues played he has not had the chance to show he is a ball player. Next year if he plays midfield and gets to show he is at least the equal to Jordie as a passer, then yes, pick him. They'd be fools not to.

Duluth

@Crazy-Horse said in Italy v All Blacks:

Lam has not had a lot of time in the midfield

He's already had 22 first class starts in the midfield. Obviously he has shifted there late in games too.

The Silver Fern

Italy v All Blacks