All Blacks 2024
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My overall feeling is he hasn't grown the squad enough. I hope he is more bold next year. Plus harping on about overseas players is really about putting all his eggs in one basket with Mounga. I want more attention paid to picking younger talent loyal to NZ rugby.
There is a ton of depth that could be developed.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?
Mitchell. He had two seasons as Chiefs coach before getting the AB job. He was essentially fired from Sale before that.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?
Mitchell. He had two seasons as Chiefs coach before getting the AB job. He was essentially fired from Sale before that.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?
Mitchell. He had two seasons as Chiefs coach before getting the AB job. He was essentially fired from Sale before that.
Oh. For a moment I thought Foster or Robertson were the grifters.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?
Mitchell. He had two seasons as Chiefs coach before getting the AB job. He was essentially fired from Sale before that.
Oh. For a moment I thought Foster or Robertson were the grifters.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
I find this a bit confusing. Which one is the grifter?
Mitchell. He had two seasons as Chiefs coach before getting the AB job. He was essentially fired from Sale before that.
Oh. For a moment I thought Foster or Robertson were the grifters.
No, we were discussing Smith and his reapplying for the job, so then I discussed the guy who got the job due to that process.
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i wish the 2024 ABs were as good as the 2003 ABs
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Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?
I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?
I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.
experience vs youth is the only possible thing.
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From the Gregor Paul article:
"Sometimes the skill is not knowing what to say, but when to say it and, by way of another example, having seen his team impacted by a series of decisions in Paris that wrongly penalised them at critical times and on four others, not give them what they had fairly won with their scrum dominance, something needed to be said publicly ahead of the Italy match.World Rugby went through their usual routine of apologising to the All Blacks after the game for the patently wrong decisions, admitting that the referee Nika Amashukeli horribly misread what was happening at scrum time.That still shouldn’t have stopped the All Blacks from wheeling out forwards coach Jason Ryan to make a few pointed remarks publicly to ensure that the pressure went on French referee Pierre Brousset who had charge of the game in Turin.There is a media game to be played, one that Robertson perhaps lacks trust or confidence to play. He seems overly wary about antagonising World Rugby by talking about failures in officiating publicly, but the best coaches know how to go through the appropriate channels privately and yet also make a few pointed and telling remarks in the press."
100% agree and it was not just Robertson guilty of it. This became really apparent to me in the Lions series in 2017 when Vunipola smashed Beaudy in the face when prone beside (not in) a ruck. When Sean O Brien knocked Naholo out. etc etc henceforth.
We have been turning the other cheek for too long and I still stand over the contention that Rassies Lions tour video and Owen Farrell tackle technique parody were strokes of genius.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
I hope that off-season he or someone at NZR takes a good long look at things to see what the real problems are, Someone experienced and from outside like Cotter would provide some good honest input and support.
Another year like this one would be a real waste
This is key, he hasn't grown the squad, but also hasn't won enough with the experience he kept - worst of both worlds
NZH year review article
10-4 could easily have been 8-6. Livable-with if he'd been clearly developing new players. But he hasn't.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
10-4 could easily have been 8-6. Livable-with if he'd been clearly developing new players. But he hasn't.
I don't think your 8-6 comment is even remotely true.
If Razor had picked some young guys and lost another couple of games he would have been "a fucking idiot who picked the wrong young guys".
Winning is the absolute imperative and you can see it in the tone of the posting on here.
After winning vs Oz, Oz, Japan, England and Ireland, the nay-sayers had somewhat quietened and there were even - god help us - a few vaguely positive comments. People "could see where Razor's taking the team".
But, lose to France and he's back in the dunce's corner. Out of his depth, biased, hasn't developed anyone, and needing to be sacked after a disastrous 10-4 season.
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I sense the troops are being rallied
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
10-4 could easily have been 8-6. Livable-with if he'd been clearly developing new players. But he hasn't.
I don't think your 8-6 comment is even remotely true.
If Razor had picked some young guys and lost another couple of games he would have been "a fucking idiot who picked the wrong young guys".
Winning is the absolute imperative and you can see it in the tone of the posting on here.
After winning vs Oz, Oz, Japan, England and Ireland, the nay-sayers had somewhat quietened and there were even - god help us - a few vaguely positive comments. People "could see where Razor's taking the team".
But, lose to France and he's back in the dunce's corner. Out of his depth, biased, hasn't developed anyone, and needing to be sacked after a disastrous 10-4 season.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
After winning vs Oz, Oz, Japan, England and Ireland, the nay-sayers had somewhat quietened and there were even - god help us - a few vaguely positive comments. People "could see where Razor's taking the team".
So, the nay sayers should have been quietened by two wins, one very shaky, over a poor Wallabies side, a walkover against Japan, yet another close call versus a very limited Pomgolia and a decent showing up against an Ireland who are clearly in decline?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
10-4 could easily have been 8-6. Livable-with if he'd been clearly developing new players. But he hasn't.
I don't think your 8-6 comment is even remotely true.
If Razor had picked some young guys and lost another couple of games he would have been "a fucking idiot who picked the wrong young guys".
Winning is the absolute imperative and you can see it in the tone of the posting on here.
After winning vs Oz, Oz, Japan, England and Ireland, the nay-sayers had somewhat quietened and there were even - god help us - a few vaguely positive comments. People "could see where Razor's taking the team".
But, lose to France and he's back in the dunce's corner. Out of his depth, biased, hasn't developed anyone, and needing to be sacked after a disastrous 10-4 season.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
I don't think your 8-6 comment is even remotely true.
We could have easily lost Bled 1 and any of the Tests against England. 8-6 (or worse) is/was entirely realistic.
If Razor had picked some young guys and lost another couple of games he would have been "a fucking idiot who picked the wrong young guys".
On the other hand he could have said "I'm going to develop a new team and try new things but there will be some bumps along the way, but bear with me" and he would have had an attentive audience.
But he didn't. He went for the wins with too many past-it players, didn't succeed at that strategy (his record is worse than Foster's FFS) and has, I suspect, wasted much of his first 12 months
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
I don't think your 8-6 comment is even remotely true.
We could have easily lost Bled 1 and any of the Tests against England. 8-6 (or worse) is/was entirely realistic.
If Razor had picked some young guys and lost another couple of games he would have been "a fucking idiot who picked the wrong young guys".
On the other hand he could have said "I'm going to develop a new team and try new things but there will be some bumps along the way, but bear with me" and he would have had an attentive audience.
But he didn't. He went for the wins with too many past-it players, didn't succeed at that strategy (his record is worse than Foster's FFS) and has, I suspect, wasted much of his first 12 months
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
On the other hand he could have said "I'm going to develop a new team and try new things but there will be some bumps along the way, but bear with me" and he would have had an attentive audience.
Instead he says 'test rugby is all about experience', and once those experienced players have gone we're not going to have enough in the layer below. But no we can still use them as we'll pick overseas, and the layer below will get even weaker, and SR will fully die
And still he lost far too many and still playing the flat to the line and fling it wide shit that hasn't worked for years.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
After winning vs Oz, Oz, Japan, England and Ireland, the nay-sayers had somewhat quietened and there were even - god help us - a few vaguely positive comments. People "could see where Razor's taking the team".
So, the nay sayers should have been quietened by two wins, one very shaky, over a poor Wallabies side, a walkover against Japan, yet another close call versus a very limited Pomgolia and a decent showing up against an Ireland who are clearly in decline?
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
After winning vs Oz, Oz, Japan, England and Ireland, the nay-sayers had somewhat quietened and there were even - god help us - a few vaguely positive comments. People "could see where Razor's taking the team".
So, the nay sayers should have been quietened by two wins, one very shaky, over a poor Wallabies side, a walkover against Japan, yet another close call versus a very limited Pomgolia and a decent showing up against an Ireland who are clearly in decline?
I'm stating that as a fact. If you look at the Ireland thread after the match and the France thread pre-match, there was actually - for once - a small degree of positivity.
As soon as we lost to France, that evaporated.
