All Blacks 2024
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@frugby yeah that is part of the problem, if it comes to a 50/50 or even down to 40/60 type decision, they will likely go for someone they have worked with, know and trust, which is all well and good.
But I think you look at the likes of Sititi who, while played well at Super in his opportunities, I dont think many would have seen him play as many test minutes as he did and was really only thrust into his role through injury, but thrived, sometimes these guys just need a chance.
They need to take a punt on younger players, and sure people say injury is our best selector, but it has been for a long time, throwing spanners in the mix.
I'd be interested to see/hear why they still rate guys like BB, I mean surely they have a game plan, they have stats and in game targets, are these being hit? Do they have post game analysis of these when it seems so often the wrong decisions are made. What is the idea behind continued selection when from the outside, they appear to be well down the other side of the hill...
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby yeah that is part of the problem, if it comes to a 50/50 or even down to 40/60 type decision, they will likely go for someone they have worked with, know and trust, which is all well and good.
But I think you look at the likes of Sititi who, while played well at Super in his opportunities, I dont think many would have seen him play as many test minutes as he did and was really only thrust into his role through injury, but thrived, sometimes these guys just need a chance.
They need to take a punt on younger players, and sure people say injury is our best selector, but it has been for a long time, throwing spanners in the mix.
I'd be interested to see/hear why they still rate guys like BB, I mean surely they have a game plan, they have stats and in game targets, are these being hit? Do they have post game analysis of these when it seems so often the wrong decisions are made. What is the idea behind continued selection when from the outside, they appear to be well down the other side of the hill...
This is why I say I'd far rather review things at the end of next season. I think it is fair to give Robertson a year to get his foot in the door, because test rugby is quite different to anything he has done before.
If he is still making the same mistakes at the end of next year, then I will be more concerned.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias. The bias has nothing to do with the fact these players are Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact Razor/Ryan coached them.
It would be exactly the same if Cotter was to become ABs coach tomorrow, fringe Blues guys would be selected - it is natural for coaches to favour known quantities, particularly in the short-term.
Over time Razor won't have a bias, it is one of the downsides of an incumbent SR coach stepping into the role, but once even a couple of years of detachment should sort the issue out.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias. The bias has nothing to do with the fact these players are Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact Razor/Ryan coached them.
It would be exactly the same if Cotter was to become ABs coach tomorrow, fringe Blues guys would be selected - it is natural for coaches to favour known quantities, particularly in the short-term.
Over time Razor won't have a bias, it is one of the downsides of an incumbent SR coach stepping into the role, but once even a couple of years of detachment should sort the issue out.
Foster picked Havili and Blackadder and Reece. And Ennor. And McLeod.
Fihaki is fucked up, I dislike Bell on potential rather than performance, but the bias thing is way overstated. -
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias. The bias has nothing to do with the fact these players are Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact Razor/Ryan coached them.
It would be exactly the same if Cotter was to become ABs coach tomorrow, fringe Blues guys would be selected - it is natural for coaches to favour known quantities, particularly in the short-term.
Over time Razor won't have a bias, it is one of the downsides of an incumbent SR coach stepping into the role, but once even a couple of years of detachment should sort the issue out.
Foster picked Havili and Blackadder and Reece. And Ennor. And McLeod.
Fihaki is fucked up, I dislike Bell on potential rather than performance, but the bias thing is way overstated.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Foster picked Havili and Blackadder and Reece. And Ennor. And McLeod.
Except they were picked on form (at least initially).
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias. The bias has nothing to do with the fact these players are Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact Razor/Ryan coached them.
It would be exactly the same if Cotter was to become ABs coach tomorrow, fringe Blues guys would be selected - it is natural for coaches to favour known quantities, particularly in the short-term.
Over time Razor won't have a bias, it is one of the downsides of an incumbent SR coach stepping into the role, but once even a couple of years of detachment should sort the issue out.
Foster picked Havili and Blackadder and Reece. And Ennor. And McLeod.
Fihaki is fucked up, I dislike Bell on potential rather than performance, but the bias thing is way overstated.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
bias thing is way overstated.
If you're wearing rose tinted glasses, red (and black) flags just look like flags.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Foster picked Havili and Blackadder and Reece. And Ennor. And McLeod.
Except they were picked on form (at least initially).
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Foster picked Havili and Blackadder and Reece. And Ennor. And McLeod.
Except they were picked on form (at least initially).
That’s a seperate issue though, this is not biasedness. The only real outlying shocker Is Fihaki.
For all the Crusaders who he showed biasedness towards, I can raise a Christie, a Perenara, a Barrett, an ALB, and even as some allege an R Ioane.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias. The bias has nothing to do with the fact these players are Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact Razor/Ryan coached them.
It would be exactly the same if Cotter was to become ABs coach tomorrow, fringe Blues guys would be selected - it is natural for coaches to favour known quantities, particularly in the short-term.
Over time Razor won't have a bias, it is one of the downsides of an incumbent SR coach stepping into the role, but once even a couple of years of detachment should sort the issue out.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
@frugby i always kind of thought thats mostly what people were saying....too heavily favouring the people he already knows...just have to give it a name and "crusaders" cover it seeing thats the only major team hes coached....is one type of bias better or more acceptable than another?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
Well Fozzie used to be accused of having a Chiefs player bias despite the fact he'd barely even coached any of the then current Chiefs ABs.
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here you go you ignorant fluffybunnies, proof you know fuck all
A Savea best player of the year
Best thing that happened to the ABs was getting BB back to 10
oh wait, who played there for the best performance again?Good lolz
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
here you go you ignorant fluffybunnies, proof you know fuck all
A Savea best player of the year
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
So personal incompetence? That’s harsh, but its nice to see you applying a critical lens to him.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
Well Fozzie used to be accused of having a Chiefs player bias despite the fact he'd barely even coached any of the then current Chiefs ABs.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby possibly, some of the Fozzie years were pretty dark, but the provincial bias from these coaches has meant our squad has been a lot weaker in an area that we got outplayed in all year, so that's a pretty strong black mark.
Fozzie had less provincial bias IMHO, his problem was being too close to the squad he played favourites far too much, and changes were generally forced on him through injury. Razor has provincial bias and he's also holding onto the old guard from the previous tenure. The worst of both worlds
Hard to compare. Foster wasn't involved with a Super Rugby team in the lead-up to becoming ABs coach, so there is no bias.
what? you dont have to be officially connected to something to have a bias, im not officially connected to Otago but i have a huge bias...its just a conscience one
My point is that the biasedness has nothing (or at least very little) to do with Canterbury/Crusaders, and everything to do with the fact he coached the players.
Well Fozzie used to be accused of having a Chiefs player bias despite the fact he'd barely even coached any of the then current Chiefs ABs.
Did he? Certainly not to the same extent Robertson gets accused (fairly) of favouring the Crusaders players.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
This year the only way to achieve that balance was having Finau at 6, but he's very young and a complete rookie so throwing him in the deep end was stupid and didn't work
Yet Sititi did and less experienced than Finau
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
This year the only way to achieve that balance was having Finau at 6, but he's very young and a complete rookie so throwing him in the deep end was stupid and didn't work
Yet Sititi did and less experienced than Finau
Depends on the player, I guess.
Some players - like Nonu & Vaa'i - take a while and a bit of coaching to reach their potential. Other such as McCaw and Sititi (so far) just slot in at the top straightaway.
