All Blacks 2025
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
Also reckon ALB would have a very good chance of making a home nations squad.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Fabian Holland, if fit, is a near certainty to be added to the AB squad.
Barrett, Vaa'i, Lord, Tuipulotu, Holland (and an injured Darry) isn't a bad crop of options.
Yeah add in the front row we have and we'll be competitive with anyone in 2025.
I really hope they use a quick 7.
Bout time also that DMac runs the show from 10 with no interruptions. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I really hope they use a quick 7.
Lakai? Anyone else?
Kirifi is probably quicker.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
That’s my point.The other teams seem to select on upside.
How is Thomas Ramos defence?
How is Bundee Aki’s kicking game?
How is Jonathan Dantys distribution?So for all the perceived deficiencies of the aforementioned NZ players , the likes of Stevensons boot and line breaking ability, or Sotutus hand skills or Laumapes block buster runs could have been used instead of ALB and his ilk crabbing around behind the gain line or running in treacle when in space.
And before people talk about some of these players sub par D or workrate or whatever, remember we have been shipping 30 odd points to Argentina at home anyway. with the "safe" incumbents. The good communicators, the safe pairs of hands. The honest toilers.
Maybe a howitzer boot at 15 or a big carry might keep us away from our own end of the field longer and they might not have to tackle or toil as much anyway.
We have been selecting our squads through a lens of anxiety rather than enthusiasm.
How many caps would Wallace have if Blackadder had stayed fit?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
That’s my point.The other teams seem to select on upside.
How is Thomas Ramos defence?
How is Bundee Aki’s kicking game?
How is Jonathan Dantys distribution?So for all the perceived deficiencies of the aforementioned NZ players , the likes of Stevensons boot and line breaking ability, or Sotutus hand skills or Laumapes block buster runs could have been used instead of ALB and his ilk crabbing around behind the gain line or running in treacle when in space.
And before people talk about some of these players sub par D or workrate or whatever, remember we have been shipping 30 odd points to Argentina at home anyway. with the "safe" incumbents. The good communicators, the safe pairs of hands. The honest toilers.
Maybe a howitzer boot at 15 or a big carry might keep us away from our own end of the field longer and they might not have to tackle or toil as much anyway.
We have been selecting our squads through a lens of anxiety rather than enthusiasm.
How many caps would Wallace have if Blackadder had stayed fit?
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
That’s my point.The other teams seem to select on upside.
How is Thomas Ramos defence?
How is Bundee Aki’s kicking game?
How is Jonathan Dantys distribution?So for all the perceived deficiencies of the aforementioned NZ players , the likes of Stevensons boot and line breaking ability, or Sotutus hand skills or Laumapes block buster runs could have been used instead of ALB and his ilk crabbing around behind the gain line or running in treacle when in space.
And before people talk about some of these players sub par D or workrate or whatever, remember we have been shipping 30 odd points to Argentina at home anyway. with the "safe" incumbents. The good communicators, the safe pairs of hands. The honest toilers.
Maybe a howitzer boot at 15 or a big carry might keep us away from our own end of the field longer and they might not have to tackle or toil as much anyway.
We have been selecting our squads through a lens of anxiety rather than enthusiasm.
How many caps would Wallace have if Blackadder had stayed fit?
Understand your point on selection generally, but I'm talking about ALB and 12/13 - where he's been a bench option as he can play both positions. And don't forget here was an injury-curse between 2020-3. And while we can talk "what if" about Laumape for weeks, he left 5 years ago.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
That’s my point.The other teams seem to select on upside.
How is Thomas Ramos defence?
How is Bundee Aki’s kicking game?
How is Jonathan Dantys distribution?So for all the perceived deficiencies of the aforementioned NZ players , the likes of Stevensons boot and line breaking ability, or Sotutus hand skills or Laumapes block buster runs could have been used instead of ALB and his ilk crabbing around behind the gain line or running in treacle when in space.
And before people talk about some of these players sub par D or workrate or whatever, remember we have been shipping 30 odd points to Argentina at home anyway. with the "safe" incumbents. The good communicators, the safe pairs of hands. The honest toilers.
Maybe a howitzer boot at 15 or a big carry might keep us away from our own end of the field longer and they might not have to tackle or toil as much anyway.
We have been selecting our squads through a lens of anxiety rather than enthusiasm.
How many caps would Wallace have if Blackadder had stayed fit?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
That’s my point.The other teams seem to select on upside.
How is Thomas Ramos defence?
How is Bundee Aki’s kicking game?
How is Jonathan Dantys distribution?So for all the perceived deficiencies of the aforementioned NZ players , the likes of Stevensons boot and line breaking ability, or Sotutus hand skills or Laumapes block buster runs could have been used instead of ALB and his ilk crabbing around behind the gain line or running in treacle when in space.
And before people talk about some of these players sub par D or workrate or whatever, remember we have been shipping 30 odd points to Argentina at home anyway. with the "safe" incumbents. The good communicators, the safe pairs of hands. The honest toilers.
Maybe a howitzer boot at 15 or a big carry might keep us away from our own end of the field longer and they might not have to tackle or toil as much anyway.
We have been selecting our squads through a lens of anxiety rather than enthusiasm.
How many caps would Wallace have if Blackadder had stayed fit?
Understand your point on selection generally, but I'm talking about ALB and 12/13 - where he's been a bench option as he can play both positions. And don't forget here was an injury-curse between 2020-3. And while we can talk "what if" about Laumape for weeks, he left 5 years ago.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
That’s my point.The other teams seem to select on upside.
How is Thomas Ramos defence?
How is Bundee Aki’s kicking game?
How is Jonathan Dantys distribution?So for all the perceived deficiencies of the aforementioned NZ players , the likes of Stevensons boot and line breaking ability, or Sotutus hand skills or Laumapes block buster runs could have been used instead of ALB and his ilk crabbing around behind the gain line or running in treacle when in space.
And before people talk about some of these players sub par D or workrate or whatever, remember we have been shipping 30 odd points to Argentina at home anyway. with the "safe" incumbents. The good communicators, the safe pairs of hands. The honest toilers.
Maybe a howitzer boot at 15 or a big carry might keep us away from our own end of the field longer and they might not have to tackle or toil as much anyway.
We have been selecting our squads through a lens of anxiety rather than enthusiasm.
How many caps would Wallace have if Blackadder had stayed fit?
Understand your point on selection generally, but I'm talking about ALB and 12/13 - where he's been a bench option as he can play both positions. And don't forget here was an injury-curse between 2020-3. And while we can talk "what if" about Laumape for weeks, he left 5 years ago.
Indeed he left 5 years ago, but it speaks to the selection paralysis that crept in post 2015 and seems to be fully entrenched now.
He was the top scorer in Super Rugby that year and cast aside, akin to Sotutu or Stevenson for example not being given a gig last year.
When you see the garbage the likes of Sevu Reece served up last year or Rieko Ioane over running every pass reception since his move to 13, you'd forgive Proctor or Stevenson or Narawa or Love for wondering why they cant get an audition (with the first 15) not a hodge podge dirt tracking San Diego game.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse i mean...what else are we looking for? strong runner, good if basic distribution (no one is SBW), strong on D and LOVES a pilfer and can even bang the odd 50/22...most importantly he's making solid decisions, runs to his support, works hard to get front foot ball and looks to get outside his man to put outsides in space
not saying hes a 10 in every one of of those facets....but the fact he has them is a bloody good start
Agree he did a lot of that on the weekend and he may turn out to be the champ we are looking for, but has he played more than two Super games at 12? It is still very early days for him.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse i mean...what else are we looking for? strong runner, good if basic distribution (no one is SBW), strong on D and LOVES a pilfer and can even bang the odd 50/22...most importantly he's making solid decisions, runs to his support, works hard to get front foot ball and looks to get outside his man to put outsides in space
not saying hes a 10 in every one of of those facets....but the fact he has them is a bloody good start
Agree he did a lot of that on the weekend and he may turn out to be the champ we are looking for, but has he played more than two Super games at 12? It is still very early days for him.
my only counter point is he was doing all those things last year too just with a different number on his back, i think we should have some confidence...defaulting to the status quo for another year...just feels weak
he's also looking this good whilst being captain where as other wilt under that extra pressure
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Not buying in to @sparky 's logic.
Sparky: France beat Italy by more than we did. Therefore France will beat ABs.
Also Sparky: Ignores NZ beat England 3x. Eng beat France ...
@booboo Those games confirm my broader point that there is no room for complacency for the ABs at moment.
They narrowly beat England in all three of those games. All three could have gone the other way. If George Ford had landed a simple drop goal shot England would have won the last one. None of those were anything other than mediocre performances by the All Blacks.
Robertson and co. will have to offer more in 2025 or serious questions will be asked whether they are up to the job.
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@booboo Those games confirm my broader point that there is no room for complacency for the ABs at moment.
They narrowly beat England in all three of those games. All three could have gone the other way. If George Ford had landed a simple drop goal shot England would have won the last one. None of those were anything other than mediocre performances by the All Blacks.
Robertson and co. will have to offer more in 2025 or serious questions will be asked whether they are up to the job.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
All three could have gone the other way.
fuck, play sliding doors in any game and there are pivotal moments that could have changed the outcome, moreso a successful DG sends the game back to half way, who says we dont score off the restart?
There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
All three could have gone the other way.
fuck, play sliding doors in any game and there are pivotal moments that could have changed the outcome, moreso a successful DG sends the game back to half way, who says we dont score off the restart?
There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
All three could have gone the other way.
There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.
Yeah, sure, but we didn't.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
All three could have gone the other way.
There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.
Yeah, sure, but we didn't.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
All three could have gone the other way.
There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.
Yeah, sure, but we didn't.
haha, exactly the same is applied to your comment re England wining those games.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t necessarily think it is unusual that a new coach any sport would favour his trusted old boys when stepping up to the biggest job in the sport, in fact I think it is probably a fair enough natural bias… however in years 2&3 as the natural bias wears off he has to steer away from it, and I expect that it will.
For the 1st half of his first season sure. But your first year is the ideal opportunity to throw a bit of caution to the wind and we saw pretty much the opposite.
Some people will argue it was his 1st year at international level, but Robertson was deliberately chosen to make a complete break from the old, established practice. The inexperience argument just doesn't hold water.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t necessarily think it is unusual that a new coach any sport would favour his trusted old boys when stepping up to the biggest job in the sport, in fact I think it is probably a fair enough natural bias… however in years 2&3 as the natural bias wears off he has to steer away from it, and I expect that it will.
Robertson was deliberately chosen to make a complete break from the old, established practice. The inexperience argument just doesn't hold water.
I am as anti Robertson being conservative as anyone, but I think this is just a straight assumption. We had been playing badly for a long time, picking Foster as a successful assistant but not a successful head coach did not pan out, and so this time they picked a successful coach instead - anyone would have been a break from the Henry era - unless you think they were going to pick one of Foster's assistants?
What doesn't wash with me is Robertson picking average players (Chiefs, Crusaders, Blues), past-it players (Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes), and players (Crusaders) who have yet to show anything approaching AB level when playing Super. He's done a mediocre job so far, but I don't think his appointment was to clean house any more than a different appointment (Joseph/Cotter/Rennie/whoever) would have been. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t necessarily think it is unusual that a new coach any sport would favour his trusted old boys when stepping up to the biggest job in the sport, in fact I think it is probably a fair enough natural bias… however in years 2&3 as the natural bias wears off he has to steer away from it, and I expect that it will.
Robertson was deliberately chosen to make a complete break from the old, established practice. The inexperience argument just doesn't hold water.
I am as anti Robertson being conservative as anyone, but I think this is just a straight assumption. We had been playing badly for a long time, picking Foster as a successful assistant but not a successful head coach did not pan out, and so this time they picked a successful coach instead - anyone would have been a break from the Henry era - unless you think they were going to pick one of Foster's assistants?
What doesn't wash with me is Robertson picking average players (Chiefs, Crusaders, Blues), past-it players (Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes), and players (Crusaders) who have yet to show anything approaching AB level when playing Super. He's done a mediocre job so far, but I don't think his appointment was to clean house any more than a different appointment (Joseph/Cotter/Rennie/whoever) would have been.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I don’t necessarily think it is unusual that a new coach any sport would favour his trusted old boys when stepping up to the biggest job in the sport, in fact I think it is probably a fair enough natural bias… however in years 2&3 as the natural bias wears off he has to steer away from it, and I expect that it will.
Robertson was deliberately chosen to make a complete break from the old, established practice. The inexperience argument just doesn't hold water.
I am as anti Robertson being conservative as anyone, but I think this is just a straight assumption. We had been playing badly for a long time, picking Foster as a successful assistant but not a successful head coach did not pan out, and so this time they picked a successful coach instead - anyone would have been a break from the Henry era - unless you think they were going to pick one of Foster's assistants?
What doesn't wash with me is Robertson picking average players (Chiefs, Crusaders, Blues), past-it players (Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes), and players (Crusaders) who have yet to show anything approaching AB level when playing Super. He's done a mediocre job so far, but I don't think his appointment was to clean house any more than a different appointment (Joseph/Cotter/Rennie/whoever) would have been.They picked a successful super rugby coach as a head coach. That's a clear break from the old, established continuity approach. Fine by me, roll the dice and give a 4 year contract to let him settle in
But, If I were the head of NZR, i.e God, I've have moved heaven and earth to ensure an experienced international coach like Cotter or Schmidt was a key part of the coaching set-up
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Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.
The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).
Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.
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Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.
The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).
Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late.
The best time would have been after 2 years of Continuity Foster. Take us to the RWC and you'd see if he had the coaching chops at Test level. 4 more years at the Crusaders didn't develop him any more unfortunately. However, NZR don't seem to move coaches on easily - that would have been a 'not renewed contract' not a sacking.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Would France, Ireland, England or South Africa favour ALB over their best centres?
As we are talking about the best talent available to the AB's, isn't that a bit irrelevant though?
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
That’s my point.The other teams seem to select on upside.
How is Thomas Ramos defence?
How is Bundee Aki’s kicking game?
How is Jonathan Dantys distribution?So for all the perceived deficiencies of the aforementioned NZ players , the likes of Stevensons boot and line breaking ability, or Sotutus hand skills or Laumapes block buster runs could have been used instead of ALB and his ilk crabbing around behind the gain line or running in treacle when in space.
And before people talk about some of these players sub par D or workrate or whatever, remember we have been shipping 30 odd points to Argentina at home anyway. with the "safe" incumbents. The good communicators, the safe pairs of hands. The honest toilers.
Maybe a howitzer boot at 15 or a big carry might keep us away from our own end of the field longer and they might not have to tackle or toil as much anyway.
We have been selecting our squads through a lens of anxiety rather than enthusiasm.
How many caps would Wallace have if Blackadder had stayed fit?
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
My contention is he isn’t the best available.
Yes he has been. He's been a dependable test experienced midfielder who has been used to fill the gap when the two top players aren't available.
Don't have an issue with your comments about other players not being picked because they don't have completely all round games, but their strengths are utilised, however with ALB I think you've flipped it the other way.
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something ive slowly learnt as a Highlanders fan, year on year i look and think "hey...thats a solid squad, we;ll do alright"...and then we dont. we need to stop look at our players and think theyre good or great...when we're not getting the results we should....if we're not doing well....then theyre not the right players
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This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
