All Blacks 2025
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We need to stop worrying about what players offered in the previous world cup cycle (and earlier than that in some cases) and think about what are they going to offer in 2025 and beyond. This applies to Beauden, Rieko, ALB, Havili etc
@KiwiMurph Hard agree. You've hit the nail on the head.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
I just feel his highest highs dont trouble the big boys at international level.
They cope with ALB quite well. They arent fretting over him prepping for a game week.
He is not Conrad Smith and he isnt SBW or Nonu.
And if he is so good, how is Rieko Iaone keeping him out of the team when he himself cant even catch a pass.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
The whole Chiefs backline was looking sharp. DMac looks far more composed when he's not constantly being depended upon to make the play with the ball in his hands
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
The whole Chiefs backline was looking sharp. DMac looks far more composed when he's not constantly being depended upon to make the play with the ball in his hands
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
The whole Chiefs backline was looking sharp. DMac looks far more composed when he's not constantly being depended upon to make the play with the ball in his hands
Following on from this, it's such a shame that they didnt give the DMAC/ Stevenson 10/15 axis a go at some point at international level. They were slicing people open for years.
The whole thing was so muddled. Perofeta was in then out. Narawa was in then out. Beaudy was at 15 off the bench. DMAC was the 10. Then Beaudy was the 10 by the end of the season.
All over the shop.
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Following on from the comment made about Roe by @Mr-Fish in the Chiefs thread, it's pleasing how quickly the half back situation has turned around in NZ. There are probably about five half backs running around that could do the job for the ABs. We just need the same thing to happen at 10.
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Following on from the comment made about Roe by @Mr-Fish in the Chiefs thread, it's pleasing how quickly the half back situation has turned around in NZ. There are probably about five half backs running around that could do the job for the ABs. We just need the same thing to happen at 10.
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
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@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
DMac and Stevenson worked extremely well together too. Seems there's a common denominator...
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@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
Ive hated the dual pivot stuff that started with Hansen with DMAC and Beaudy (until DMAC did his ACL) and then Beaudy and Mounga going into 2019.
Pure scutter.....Puke.
Give me a Dagg, Ben Smith type at fullback and be done with it.
We started loving the smell of our own farts post the 2011/2015 back to back and tried to reinvent an already well functioning wheel.
We have our two incumbent 10's currently playing 15 at club level, a winger playing 13, our old fullback playing 12.
We have an 8 playing 6, we have a 7 playing 8 and we have had a myriad of 6.5's playing 7.
Fond of throwing a lock in at 6 or a 6 in at lock too.And lads on the wing who look like they are running in quicksand.
They havnt looked like a conventional "starting 15" for a long time.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
Ive hated the dual pivot stuff that started with Hansen with DMAC and Beaudy (until DMAC did his ACL) and then Beaudy and Mounga going into 2019.
Pure scutter.....Puke.
Give me a Dagg, Ben Smith type at fullback and be done with it.
We started loving the smell of our own farts post the 2011/2015 back to back and tried to reinvent an already well functioning wheel.
We have our two incumbent 10's currently playing 15 at club level, a winger playing 13, our old fullback playing 12.
We have an 8 playing 6, we have a 7 playing 8 and we have had a myriad of 6.5's playing 7.
Fond of throwing a lock in at 6 or a 6 in at lock too.And lads on the wing who look like they are running in quicksand.
They havnt looked like a conventional "starting 15" for a long time.
@Jet BB is more a FB than 10 so in theory, should work, but I think he is given the reins of the duo as main playmaker, and this possibly affects the BB/Dmac effectiveness, not to mention BB is a shadow of his former self so shouldnt even command the starting role at 15 or 10, and form suggests he shouldnt even be on the bench.
But agree otherwise, rather than all these hybrid roles, we need to play specialists in their position.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
His sharpness at Super level hasn't translated to test level recently
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
I just feel his highest highs dont trouble the big boys at international level.
They cope with ALB quite well. They arent fretting over him prepping for a game week.
He is not Conrad Smith and he isnt SBW or Nonu.
And if he is so good, how is Rieko Iaone keeping him out of the team when he himself cant even catch a pass.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
I just feel his highest highs dont trouble the big boys at international level.
They cope with ALB quite well. They arent fretting over him prepping for a game week.
He is not Conrad Smith and he isnt SBW or Nonu.
And if he is so good, how is Rieko Iaone keeping him out of the team when he himself cant even catch a pass.
I’d love to see Telea at 13 and Rieko at 14 for Blues.
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Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
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Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
NZR should have insisted on someone with decent international experience - even if just for the 1st year. Schmidt, for example, would have been a huge asset to Robertson.
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
There clearly wasn't an heir apparent. There was always, however, the continuity candidate....
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Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
Yeah um let's sweep the Foster/Board saga under the creaking carpet, nothing to see here...
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Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
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Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
IIRC the early years were outstanding. We were untouchable from 2012 to 2015. That continued on until the Lions deal gone wrong in 2017 and we went into slow decline in terms of selection and tactics which culminated in getting knocked out by England in Yokohama in RWC 2019
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
IIRC the early years were outstanding. We were untouchable from 2012 to 2015. That continued on until the Lions deal gone wrong in 2017 and we went into slow decline in terms of selection and tactics which culminated in getting knocked out by England in Yokohama in RWC 2019
@canefan the Lions was probably the beginning of the steady decline where we stopped producing so many ball running forwards, stopped moving forward and were exposed as not being able to deal with thier rush defence, I reckon if you wanted to pinpoint it, the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
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@canefan the Lions was probably the beginning of the steady decline where we stopped producing so many ball running forwards, stopped moving forward and were exposed as not being able to deal with thier rush defence, I reckon if you wanted to pinpoint it, the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
