All Blacks 2025
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse I like the way the Chiefs are using Jacomb & Dmac, but for some reason, we cant seem to get our 10/15 at AB level to work as well together, is it an ego thing about who is in the driver seat, whereas the Chiefs, Dmac is in total control, Jacomb knows his role is secondary?
Ive hated the dual pivot stuff that started with Hansen with DMAC and Beaudy (until DMAC did his ACL) and then Beaudy and Mounga going into 2019.
Pure scutter.....Puke.
Give me a Dagg, Ben Smith type at fullback and be done with it.
We started loving the smell of our own farts post the 2011/2015 back to back and tried to reinvent an already well functioning wheel.
We have our two incumbent 10's currently playing 15 at club level, a winger playing 13, our old fullback playing 12.
We have an 8 playing 6, we have a 7 playing 8 and we have had a myriad of 6.5's playing 7.
Fond of throwing a lock in at 6 or a 6 in at lock too.And lads on the wing who look like they are running in quicksand.
They havnt looked like a conventional "starting 15" for a long time.
@Jet BB is more a FB than 10 so in theory, should work, but I think he is given the reins of the duo as main playmaker, and this possibly affects the BB/Dmac effectiveness, not to mention BB is a shadow of his former self so shouldnt even command the starting role at 15 or 10, and form suggests he shouldnt even be on the bench.
But agree otherwise, rather than all these hybrid roles, we need to play specialists in their position.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
His sharpness at Super level hasn't translated to test level recently
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
I just feel his highest highs dont trouble the big boys at international level.
They cope with ALB quite well. They arent fretting over him prepping for a game week.
He is not Conrad Smith and he isnt SBW or Nonu.
And if he is so good, how is Rieko Iaone keeping him out of the team when he himself cant even catch a pass.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
This ALB slander will not stand.
For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.
and two games in he has been looking pretty sharp
I just feel his highest highs dont trouble the big boys at international level.
They cope with ALB quite well. They arent fretting over him prepping for a game week.
He is not Conrad Smith and he isnt SBW or Nonu.
And if he is so good, how is Rieko Iaone keeping him out of the team when he himself cant even catch a pass.
I’d love to see Telea at 13 and Rieko at 14 for Blues.
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Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
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Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
NZR should have insisted on someone with decent international experience - even if just for the 1st year. Schmidt, for example, would have been a huge asset to Robertson.
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
There clearly wasn't an heir apparent. There was always, however, the continuity candidate....
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Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
Tacit admission that they should've insisted on some decent international experience in the current coaching group...
Also, fucking bullshit
“There’s never an heir apparent for the All Blacks coach. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that.”
Yeah um let's sweep the Foster/Board saga under the creaking carpet, nothing to see here...
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Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
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Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
IIRC the early years were outstanding. We were untouchable from 2012 to 2015. That continued on until the Lions deal gone wrong in 2017 and we went into slow decline in terms of selection and tactics which culminated in getting knocked out by England in Yokohama in RWC 2019
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
IIRC the early years were outstanding. We were untouchable from 2012 to 2015. That continued on until the Lions deal gone wrong in 2017 and we went into slow decline in terms of selection and tactics which culminated in getting knocked out by England in Yokohama in RWC 2019
@canefan the Lions was probably the beginning of the steady decline where we stopped producing so many ball running forwards, stopped moving forward and were exposed as not being able to deal with thier rush defence, I reckon if you wanted to pinpoint it, the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
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@canefan the Lions was probably the beginning of the steady decline where we stopped producing so many ball running forwards, stopped moving forward and were exposed as not being able to deal with thier rush defence, I reckon if you wanted to pinpoint it, the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
IIRC the early years were outstanding. We were untouchable from 2012 to 2015. That continued on until the Lions deal gone wrong in 2017 and we went into slow decline in terms of selection and tactics which culminated in getting knocked out by England in Yokohama in RWC 2019
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Well they changed it up when they reinstated Ted and co, then the success with Hansen made it look like Fozzie was the best and only choice, without looking closer at it, if they did they would have realised it wasn't the right move.
My memory might mislead me but were the Hansen years as successful as the 3 wise men years? I had the impression performances were tapering off (or maybe the other teams were getting stronger, or maybe it was a time many AB legends retired).
IIRC the early years were outstanding. We were untouchable from 2012 to 2015. That continued on until the Lions deal gone wrong in 2017 and we went into slow decline in terms of selection and tactics which culminated in getting knocked out by England in Yokohama in RWC 2019
Yeah Went downhill slowly after the 2015 wc , Hansen’s first wc cycle was excellent,
I remember carter being missing for quite a period , kaino also , cruden and messam filling in and we didn’t miss a beat . -
@canefan the Lions was probably the beginning of the steady decline where we stopped producing so many ball running forwards, stopped moving forward and were exposed as not being able to deal with thier rush defence, I reckon if you wanted to pinpoint it, the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan the Lions was probably the beginning of the steady decline where we stopped producing so many ball running forwards, stopped moving forward and were exposed as not being able to deal with thier rush defence, I reckon if you wanted to pinpoint it, the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
A sliding doors moment.
Red carding an Allblack in the first half of a massive game, while allowing Mako Vunipola forearm smash a prone Beauden Barrett square in the face without an equal sanction.
It was like Alex Ferguson leaving Man United.
The aura was gone. Refs thought “ I’ll have a bit of that on my cv” and we have been the most carded tier 1 team ever since.
The self belief was eroded gradually to the point where a lot of our current lads have gotten very used to losing as opposed to the “we can’t be beaten” jeopardy the pre 2015 squads used to fuel their efforts.
Our habit of turning the other cheek in the media and endeavouring to be darlings of the game has also lead to us being walked all over. There are plenty of things our coaches should have screamed blue murder over and all we get is “we will have a look at that and feed it back through the appropriate channels”.
We should have been filthy on and off the pitch during and after the RWC final. A complete and utter hatchet job. I wouldn’t have even turned up to the WR awards dinner. If I was Ardie I’d have told them to ram their player of the year up their holes.
Then you have Wayne Barnes writing a book. That tells you all you need to know about where the game is at.
We have been beaten on the pitch, in the dugout and in the media game.
Coming up on 10 years since the 2015 win without a Lions tour or RWC to show for our efforts. Don’t win in 2027 and it’ll be over 15 years since we will have had something proper to shout about.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
@Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
I had no problem with the red.
But Mako should have got red.
Sean O Brien should have also got done for knocking Naholo out with a forearm smash (with his Matfield style forearm "padding") which concussed him out of the series.The last minute penalty for tackling a player (Sinckler?) in the air who jumped to catch a ball unorthodoxly was a joke.
And the 3rd test "we have a deal", was just disgusting, not to mention ALB had collected the ball and was in under the posts, no advantage played to us.
A thundering disgrace.
We also lost Ben Smith to an inner ear issue, which in conjunction with Naholos concussion left us with a "ready for the knackers yard" Dagg and Savea (whos legs had completely deserted him), back in the team.
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@Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
I had no problem with the red.
But Mako should have got red.
Sean O Brien should have also got done for knocking Naholo out with a forearm smash (with his Matfield style forearm "padding") which concussed him out of the series.The last minute penalty for tackling a player (Sinckler?) in the air who jumped to catch a ball unorthodoxly was a joke.
And the 3rd test "we have a deal", was just disgusting, not to mention ALB had collected the ball and was in under the posts, no advantage played to us.
A thundering disgrace.
We also lost Ben Smith to an inner ear issue, which in conjunction with Naholos concussion left us with a "ready for the knackers yard" Dagg and Savea (whos legs had completely deserted him), back in the team.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
I had no problem with the red.
Oh - I had absolutely no problem with the decision for it to be a red.
I absolutely lost my shit over SBW being a dumb fluffybunny and earning it. I believe I posted something akin to "Should never play for the ABs again".
In my defence - remember - this was at a time when this was the THIRD ABs red-card EVER. I'd never seen one in my lifetime. -
@Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
I had no problem with the red.
But Mako should have got red.
Sean O Brien should have also got done for knocking Naholo out with a forearm smash (with his Matfield style forearm "padding") which concussed him out of the series.The last minute penalty for tackling a player (Sinckler?) in the air who jumped to catch a ball unorthodoxly was a joke.
And the 3rd test "we have a deal", was just disgusting, not to mention ALB had collected the ball and was in under the posts, no advantage played to us.
A thundering disgrace.
We also lost Ben Smith to an inner ear issue, which in conjunction with Naholos concussion left us with a "ready for the knackers yard" Dagg and Savea (whos legs had completely deserted him), back in the team.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
I had no problem with the red.
But Mako should have got red.
Sean O Brien should have also got done for knocking Naholo out with a forearm smash (with his Matfield style forearm "padding") which concussed him out of the series.The last minute penalty for tackling a player (Sinckler?) in the air who jumped to catch a ball unorthodoxly was a joke.
And the 3rd test "we have a deal", was just disgusting, not to mention ALB had collected the ball and was in under the posts, no advantage played to us.
A thundering disgrace.
We also lost Ben Smith to an inner ear issue, which in conjunction with Naholos concussion left us with a "ready for the knackers yard" Dagg and Savea (whos legs had completely deserted him), back in the team.
And no Dane Coles, who was at his peak
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@Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
I had no problem with the red.
But Mako should have got red.
Sean O Brien should have also got done for knocking Naholo out with a forearm smash (with his Matfield style forearm "padding") which concussed him out of the series.The last minute penalty for tackling a player (Sinckler?) in the air who jumped to catch a ball unorthodoxly was a joke.
And the 3rd test "we have a deal", was just disgusting, not to mention ALB had collected the ball and was in under the posts, no advantage played to us.
A thundering disgrace.
We also lost Ben Smith to an inner ear issue, which in conjunction with Naholos concussion left us with a "ready for the knackers yard" Dagg and Savea (whos legs had completely deserted him), back in the team.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kruse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
... the beginning of the steady decline ... the RC on SBW was the turning point in that series, and probably had a wider impact on our game.
YES - I knew my losing my absolute shit over that would eventually be vindicated.
I had no problem with the red.
But Mako should have got red.
Sean O Brien should have also got done for knocking Naholo out with a forearm smash (with his Matfield style forearm "padding") which concussed him out of the series.The last minute penalty for tackling a player (Sinckler?) in the air who jumped to catch a ball unorthodoxly was a joke.
And the 3rd test "we have a deal", was just disgusting, not to mention ALB had collected the ball and was in under the posts, no advantage played to us.
A thundering disgrace.
We also lost Ben Smith to an inner ear issue, which in conjunction with Naholos concussion left us with a "ready for the knackers yard" Dagg and Savea (whos legs had completely deserted him), back in the team.
The SOB forearm was straight red. Completely screwed our defensive system, which had coped well until then.
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The midfield is shaping as the most fascinating battle for the All Blacks squad this year. There are loads of players in the frame, but few who should/are actually shoe-ins to make the squad.
The Incumbents
Jordie Barrett - The incumbent second five is currently playing at Leinster, so won't be able to be compared to those playing Super Rugby. Has the best long-range kicking game, and is a certainty to hold his spot in the squad.Rieko Ioane - The incumbent centre has split opinions for the ABs, and a lacklustre start to the Super Rugby season won't be helping his case. You wonder whether a rumoured sabbatical would have been a good option for him too. On current form, could he struggle to make the squad?
Anton Lienert-Brown - Another who split opinions, the incumbent bench option had some decent showings last year, but hardly enough to nail his spot. Looks good in a good Chiefs backline, but has equally been outshone by others. Should be under-pressure.
David Havili - Give me strength. Should be nowhere near it - Next.
Billy Proctor - Impressed in limited chances for the ABs last year. Has a big chance to show his quality if he returns to a struggling Canes side. Due back in the next couple of weeks if the positive reports are to be believed, though conflicting reports suggest it could be much longer, which would derail an ABs push.
The NZ EOYT Boys
Quinn Tupaea - Just three rounds in, but he has started the year like a house on fire, and looks back to his best - if not even better than his previous level. On current form, he walks back into the ABs squad, and has serious claims to start.
Riley Higgins - Due back in a few weeks, and will have ground to make up. Was tipped to be the big mover this year, but his own injuries and his team's struggling form may mean he has to wait for the time being, but with a good run over the second half of the season, it could be the case of performing at the right time.
AJ Lam - Has been ineffectual for the Blues through the first three rounds. A good player, but probably one who has looked slightly better than he is because of the quality around him. Unless he can prove otherwise, his All Blacks chances seem slim.
Dallas McLeod - Benched for the first two for the Crusaders, but likely to start this week. With a big season, the current coaching group will have him in mind. Certainly showed he has the attributes for Canterbury, and was picked by the last coaching group for good reason. One to watch.
The Chasing Pack
Timoci Tavatavanawai - Easily the biggest mover over the first three rounds, after making what seems to be a full-time switch to the midfield. A tougher outing versus Moana Pasifika, but still beat several defenders and won three turnovers. May not be the man to start at 12, but he looks a very enticing bench option.Brayden Ennor - Don't forget about Ennor. If he can put a run of games together, he might be the smartest centre in the country, or at the very least one of the better distributors. Seems to be the wrong age profile though, and can't stay fit.
Peter Umaga-Jensen - Seems a longshot, but was capped by the All Blacks for a reason. Midfield injuries are presenting him a chance to have a genuine run of games. A return to black does look highly unlikely that said.
The Could be Worth a Look if Bizarre things Occur
Tanielu Tele'a - Looking good in an improved Highlanders team. Nowhere near All Black quality as things stand, but might be in the frame for the NZ XVCorey Evans/Xavi Taele/Zarn Sullivan - Would suggest any of these guys are All Blacks this year, but the way things going, someone else is going to get a chance in the Blues midfield at some point, and if they spark a turnaround in form, they will always be in the international conversation.
