All Blacks 2025
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@KiwiInLondon we have better Depth at hooker this year to be fair, last year Razor plucked out Bell who was struggling to throw straight for the Crusaders. this year we have a fit Taukei'aho, Codie, Aumua and if need be the Crusaders breakout player Moananu
@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Yes so many of the young and up and coming players have justified everyone sentiments about Robertson with their continued and improved form in this super rugby season....
Any position in mind? Tough to think of any 10's that haven't improved except for Miller and Hohepa.
More a lot have gone backwards or have stagnated. When you look at the ABs XV squad, it’s actually quite disappointing how many haven’t kicked on to another gear (Kirifi has been good but seems to be slipping as the season goes on). Holland, who was a big prospect last season, hasn’t showed the same level (aside from one game against the bottom team).
As for the up and coming ABs from last season. Aumua, Roigard, Ratima, Tosi, Laki, and Love haven’t exactly been setting the world on fire.
The only players that have noticeably improved imo has been Jordon (has played more like a fullback), Vai’i and Finau have got better.
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Yes so many of the young and up and coming players have justified everyone sentiments about Robertson with their continued and improved form in this super rugby season....
Any position in mind? Tough to think of any 10's that haven't improved except for Miller and Hohepa.
More a lot have gone backwards or have stagnated. When you look at the ABs XV squad, it’s actually quite disappointing how many haven’t kicked on to another gear (Kirifi has been good but seems to be slipping as the season goes on). Holland, who was a big prospect last season, hasn’t showed the same level (aside from one game against the bottom team).
As for the up and coming ABs from last season. Aumua, Roigard, Ratima, Tosi, Laki, and Love haven’t exactly been setting the world on fire.
The only players that have noticeably improved imo has been Jordon (has played more like a fullback), Vai’i and Finau have got better.
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
It's a tough one because some of those players were given very little gametime for the All Blacks while still being part of the squad, so they had very limited opportunities to actually improve as players (and in some ways probably regressed). If Love had been given two or three runs on the wing/fullback for the All Blacks (or for Wellington) then maybe he'd be playing better now, compared to having sat on the sidelines and only playing four matches between Super Rugby finishing last year and starting up again this year.
*Love might have been injured last year, I can't remember, but substitute in any other younger player and it's the same stich.
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@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
I don't really see how being short would be a massive problem for a hooker? Being light, yes, but he's heavier than plenty of other international hookers (including Codie Taylor, Peato Mauvaka).
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Yes so many of the young and up and coming players have justified everyone sentiments about Robertson with their continued and improved form in this super rugby season....
Any position in mind? Tough to think of any 10's that haven't improved except for Miller and Hohepa.
More a lot have gone backwards or have stagnated. When you look at the ABs XV squad, it’s actually quite disappointing how many haven’t kicked on to another gear (Kirifi has been good but seems to be slipping as the season goes on). Holland, who was a big prospect last season, hasn’t showed the same level (aside from one game against the bottom team).
As for the up and coming ABs from last season. Aumua, Roigard, Ratima, Tosi, Laki, and Love haven’t exactly been setting the world on fire.
The only players that have noticeably improved imo has been Jordon (has played more like a fullback), Vai’i and Finau have got better.
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
I get the conservative choices last year, but he needs to be a bit bolder this year. Robertson has all access to all the players in NZ and has to the play the cards he's dealt. So pick the players which he thinks will deliver over the next 3 years of his coachhood (is that actually a word?) and build a squad on that.
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be some fuck-ups and blow-backs but that's all part of developing the team and I'd hope most people would accept that.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Yes so many of the young and up and coming players have justified everyone sentiments about Robertson with their continued and improved form in this super rugby season....
Any position in mind? Tough to think of any 10's that haven't improved except for Miller and Hohepa.
More a lot have gone backwards or have stagnated. When you look at the ABs XV squad, it’s actually quite disappointing how many haven’t kicked on to another gear (Kirifi has been good but seems to be slipping as the season goes on). Holland, who was a big prospect last season, hasn’t showed the same level (aside from one game against the bottom team).
As for the up and coming ABs from last season. Aumua, Roigard, Ratima, Tosi, Laki, and Love haven’t exactly been setting the world on fire.
The only players that have noticeably improved imo has been Jordon (has played more like a fullback), Vai’i and Finau have got better.
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
Jesus mate, I'm as negative as the next guy, but Taylor, Taukei'aho, Aumua is hardly a weak trio of hookers.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Yes so many of the young and up and coming players have justified everyone sentiments about Robertson with their continued and improved form in this super rugby season....
Any position in mind? Tough to think of any 10's that haven't improved except for Miller and Hohepa.
More a lot have gone backwards or have stagnated. When you look at the ABs XV squad, it’s actually quite disappointing how many haven’t kicked on to another gear (Kirifi has been good but seems to be slipping as the season goes on). Holland, who was a big prospect last season, hasn’t showed the same level (aside from one game against the bottom team).
As for the up and coming ABs from last season. Aumua, Roigard, Ratima, Tosi, Laki, and Love haven’t exactly been setting the world on fire.
The only players that have noticeably improved imo has been Jordon (has played more like a fullback), Vai’i and Finau have got better.
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
Jesus mate, I'm as negative as the next guy, but Taylor, Taukei'aho, Aumua is hardly a weak trio of hookers.
I didn’t say it was a weak trio of hookers. It’s that Taukei’aho and Aumua should be bashing the door down for a starting spot. They’re so hot and cold
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
I get the conservative choices last year, but he needs to be a bit bolder this year. Robertson has all access to all the players in NZ and has to the play the cards he's dealt. So pick the players which he thinks will deliver over the next 3 years of his coachhood (is that actually a word?) and build a squad on that.
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be some fuck-ups and blow-backs but that's all part of developing the team and I'd hope most people would accept that.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
The 1987 AB squad won the World Cup and not a single one had played any Super Rugby. Really unbelievable
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
He’s no Lomu or McCaw but you can add Isaia Toeava to that list, got a AB test cap before he even got a super rugby cap.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yes, but to clarify, I'm talking about players who've been selected as AB's on the basis of SR form and developing them further as part of the AB squad..
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
Ahh yes two of the best rugby players ever. What an argument
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@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
Kirifi I understand, he reminds me if today's version of Matt Todd. Still, I wouldn't begrudge him or the selectors if they gave him a go. Him and Ardie in the same loose trio in a big test would leave me slightly nervous though.
Moananu, no, I think he is the real deal. If anything, I feel like he uses his lack of height to his advantage with how low he gets. We're in good hands at hooker. Bell can fuck off and play some domestic rugby and learn his trade for a bit once he comes back from injury. He's barely in the top 10 hookers in the country yet has 3 tests to his name.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
Kirifi I understand, he reminds me if today's version of Matt Todd. Still, I wouldn't begrudge him or the selectors if they gave him a go. Him and Ardie in the same loose trio in a big test would leave me slightly nervous though.
Moananu, no, I think he is the real deal. If anything, I feel like he uses his lack of height to his advantage with how low he gets. We're in good hands at hooker. Bell can fuck off and play some domestic rugby and learn his trade for a bit once he comes back from injury. He's barely in the top 10 hookers in the country yet has 3 tests to his name.
@African-Monkey I do find the argument against Moananu's height is an odd one.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby)
Not sure if I heard a whooshing noise
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I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ? -
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?Na. They have Aki and Henshaw. McClosky is a bit of a poor mans Jordie stamping on the heels too.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?Na. They have Aki and Henshaw. McClosky is a bit of a poor mans Jordie stamping on the heels too.
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Aki turned 35 12 days ago.
