All Blacks 2025
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
I am critical of Robertson but I do feel a bit sorry for him. If Barrett continues to show good game management and McKenzie shits the bed in another semi/final, who is he supposed to select? ALB and Reiko are the only real options at 13 despite Reiko being bang average and ALB being injury prone and slow. Reece, despite being terrible last season, continues to outshine every winger through sheer enthusiasm. For all the criticism of Jordon at 15, what exactly has Love shown to provide any competition at all? Still don’t have a clear option for our backup hooker with Taylor still the obvious no. 1. Lock is ok but one injury there and we have no idea who the third lock would be. Literally only have one out and out six pushing for selection. We don’t have an 8 if Savea is sensibly selected at 7.
I get the conservative choices last year, but he needs to be a bit bolder this year. Robertson has all access to all the players in NZ and has to the play the cards he's dealt. So pick the players which he thinks will deliver over the next 3 years of his coachhood (is that actually a word?) and build a squad on that.
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be some fuck-ups and blow-backs but that's all part of developing the team and I'd hope most people would accept that.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
The 1987 AB squad won the World Cup and not a single one had played any Super Rugby. Really unbelievable
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
He’s no Lomu or McCaw but you can add Isaia Toeava to that list, got a AB test cap before he even got a super rugby cap.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yes, but to clarify, I'm talking about players who've been selected as AB's on the basis of SR form and developing them further as part of the AB squad..
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
Ahh yes two of the best rugby players ever. What an argument
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@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
Kirifi I understand, he reminds me if today's version of Matt Todd. Still, I wouldn't begrudge him or the selectors if they gave him a go. Him and Ardie in the same loose trio in a big test would leave me slightly nervous though.
Moananu, no, I think he is the real deal. If anything, I feel like he uses his lack of height to his advantage with how low he gets. We're in good hands at hooker. Bell can fuck off and play some domestic rugby and learn his trade for a bit once he comes back from injury. He's barely in the top 10 hookers in the country yet has 3 tests to his name.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter Moananu strikes me as the hooker version of Kirifi - having an excellent SR season but possibly too small for Test rugby.
Hopefully I'm wrong. About both.
Kirifi I understand, he reminds me if today's version of Matt Todd. Still, I wouldn't begrudge him or the selectors if they gave him a go. Him and Ardie in the same loose trio in a big test would leave me slightly nervous though.
Moananu, no, I think he is the real deal. If anything, I feel like he uses his lack of height to his advantage with how low he gets. We're in good hands at hooker. Bell can fuck off and play some domestic rugby and learn his trade for a bit once he comes back from injury. He's barely in the top 10 hookers in the country yet has 3 tests to his name.
@African-Monkey I do find the argument against Moananu's height is an odd one.
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@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
That means giving players like Love & Holland some real game time to see how they go. Sure, there'll be so
Well my response to that is that this is the All Blacks, not a super rugby team. You don't select a young player hoping they'll be ok in two years. That young player has to demonstrate they are worth selecting now, and they should be dropped if they aren't performing well. That is how any national team should operate and is how the All Blacks have operated in the past.
Yeah all blocks never take in those that haven't proven themselves in at least couple of years of top flight domestic rugby...
Like Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby) and Richie McCaw (8 mins super rugby)
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
Jonah lomu (0 mins super rugby)
Not sure if I heard a whooshing noise
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I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ? -
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?Na. They have Aki and Henshaw. McClosky is a bit of a poor mans Jordie stamping on the heels too.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?Na. They have Aki and Henshaw. McClosky is a bit of a poor mans Jordie stamping on the heels too.
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Aki turned 35 12 days ago.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
I partially agree.
Jordie is looking so good because he is part of a dominant and extremely well-coached Leinster team. Easily the best in the URC and, as you say, Toulouse are probably their only really challenger in the European Cup.
But these is no denying as part of a high-quality rotated midfield, he's looking extremely sharp.
I haven’t seen much but heard the hype .
Hypothetical question, if he was eligible for Ireland he’s their starting 12 ?Without a doubt he would be, he's exactly the type of 12 they love up there. I'm not sure the ABs really know how to get the best out of him tactics wise.
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Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens as a bolter?
I think he would be in the picture had he not been injured by that dog act from a grub at the end of last season.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens as a bolter?
I think he would be in the picture had he not been injured by that dog act from a grub at the end of last season.
No. Lots of sparkle, no cleverness. Great breaks, then passes to opposition. Or makes wrong decision, did it four times for Landers. We need some brains in our backline, rugby smarts. Abs are really lacking.
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On the basis of what we are seeing week in week out in Super Rugby, though it is entertaining, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the All Blacks will be an all conquering force this year, and this should be remembered before everyone lays into Razor...
Props - Williams has been good, Newell, EDG & Lomax warming into it. Tosi has been shite, Ofa non-existant. Of those outside the squad, Dyer has been pretty good, and could push past Tosi... nobody else putting their hand up
Hookers - Taylor has been on the beach, Bell has a broken foot, and Aumua has been lukewarm at best. Samisoni hasn't exactly come back in ripped up trees... Moananu is cool, and McAllister has been strong, but they aren't moving the needle at test level
Locks - Until two weeks ago Scooter was on the beach with Taylor, Tuipulotu has been off the pace, Darry & Lord have been in the injury ward. Vaa'i has been good, Holland has banged the door down with Beehre not far behind. Probably the area of least concern
Loose Forwards - Sititi has been in the injury ward, Papalii & Blackadder have spent time there too. Finau has dominated, but that is not a change at this level - nothing to suggest this is going to change at test level. Lakai has been good, as has Ardie & Jacobson. We were looking for a big bolter of a bruising blindside, but frankly the best answer you get is give Finau another go. Kirifi has been good, but we don't need another openside flanker... we need a unit, you could take a punt on Parker, but that is all you would be doing
Halfbacks - Roigard has been below his usual standards, Ratima hardly commanding things for the Chiefs. Hotham has come back from injury well but has only managed a handful of games. Fakatava has been injured all year, but he might be able to put some pressure on which is a positive to take home
First Five - We're 10 rounds in, and the general acceptance is that neither the Landers or Saders have a credible 10, and the Canes are back to trying Ruben Love there, who is clearly a fullback. DMac has been good, but we are still stuck with him, Barrett (who has been mixed) and the square total of fuck all else. Even Plummer has been unsighted... if DMac/Barrett go down, seriously, who is the next first five? If it is seriously Josh Jacomb, we might be scrooge mcduck.
Midfielders - Rieko stinking the joint out in an awful Blues side, Lienert-Brown has spent half the year on the sideline, Havili has been good, but we know he is the not the answer. Proctor has only just come back, and J Barrett is at least doing well up north. Tavatavanawai, Tupaea, and to a lesser extent Lam are putting the heat on here, so less concern
Outside Backs - The form levels are good here, so there should be little to worry about.
Is this glass half empty? Probably, but we are over halfway through Super Rugby, and the majority of the Top ABs aren't playing particularly good rugby, and there is few players on the outside putting the pressure on. We could be in for a serious reality check I fear...
