All Blacks 2025
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky respect your opinion, but Proctor , just don't see it ,let's see how he goes in next couple months.,
It’s not only my opinion mate. The drums have been beating pretty loudly for Proctor to start for a while now and at some point he’ll be too hard to ignore.
I take it you didn’t watch his performance against the Brumbies on Saturday? Either that or you didn’t have your contacts in because he was all class on both sides of the ball and that’s what the ABs have been missing consistently in a centre for far too long.
Personally I wouldn’t mind if the ABs rolled out this team against the French. I’ve also included AJ Lam because for me he’s been pretty damn classy for the Blues and can cover wing if required.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Va’ai
- Sititi
- Lakai
- Savea
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Ioane (I’d back him over Clarke)
- Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei’aho
- De Groot
- Tosi
- Holland
- Kirifi
- Ratima
- Barrett
- Lam
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky respect your opinion, but Proctor , just don't see it ,let's see how he goes in next couple months.,
It’s not only my opinion mate. The drums have been beating pretty loudly for Proctor to start for a while now and at some point he’ll be too hard to ignore.
I take it you didn’t watch his performance against the Brumbies on Saturday? Either that or you didn’t have your contacts in because he was all class on both sides of the ball and that’s what the ABs have been missing consistently in a centre for far too long.
Personally I wouldn’t mind if the ABs rolled out this team against the French. I’ve also included AJ Lam because for me he’s been pretty damn classy for the Blues and can cover wing if required.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Va’ai
- Sititi
- Lakai
- Savea
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Ioane (I’d back him over Clarke)
- Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei’aho
- De Groot
- Tosi
- Holland
- Kirifi
- Ratima
- Barrett
- Lam
It's the subtle stuff I see with Proctor.
Carrying the ball in two hands, pump fakes, delaying of pass etc.A centre needs to have some "rope a dope" in his arsenal. Proctor knows the assignment.
Is he test class? Who knows...but he is the next and most obvious cab off the rank.
Rieko is game as fuck to his credit and his scramble D is exemplary.
I really want him to succeed becasue I like that he is a bit of an arsehole (on the field anyway).But he isnt a centre, and I feel we have enough evidence now to say that with confidence.
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It was only a couple of seasons ago that Billy Proctor's five-year contract was largely considered one of the worst deals done in contracting history and Peter Umaga-Jensen and Bailyn Sullivan were being regularly touted as All-Blacks-in-waiting... How things change.
Provided Proctor is showing decent form throughout the rest of the season, he has definitely earned a few starts at 13 for the All Blacks, especially now that ALB is out of action for a decent length of time and there's not really anyone else in consideration. If it were me, Proctor would be starting in the midfield in two Tests against France and if that doesn't pan out, Razor can revert back to Ioane for the two games against Argentina to kick off the Rugby Championship before the Boks come a calling.
Taylor, Taukei'aho and Aumua will be the three hookers selected for July without a doubt. Taukei'aho has been in good form the past couple of weeks and Aumua showed enough improvement throughout the Test season in 2024 to remain in the squad. McAlister has been excellent for the past few years and it was likely only injuries that prevented him getting a call-up to the All Blacks. If there were a World Cup this year and one of the other three went down injured, he'd be the next cab off the ranks. Given that's not the case, however, I suspect Razor and co will look to invest in Moananu (but I'm sure both will feature for the All Blacks XV - it's a real shame neither of them are eligible for the MABs though).
If Love keeps playing (and performing) at 10 for the Hurricanes then he should be selected as the third option ahead of Perofeta and any other young flyhalves. He would be a considerably better bench player than Beauden Barrett moving forward, with McKenzie the obvious starting playmaker.
I can see Razor plumping for Holland ahead of Lord in the July squad with Lord left to the MABs for their games in Japan, unless he starts hitting his straps very quickly now that he's back (again) from injury for the Chiefs. Beehre is definitely there or thereabouts but Holland is next cab off the ranks.
Somewhat ironically, Razor doesn't think Christian Lio-Willie is big enough to play for the All Blacks. The only slightly left-field selection I can see in the loosies is Cam Christie, otherwise it'll be the same guys as last year.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
It was only a couple of seasons ago that Billy Proctor's five-year contract was largely considered one of the worst deals done in contracting history and Peter Umaga-Jensen and Bailyn Sullivan were being regularly touted as All-Blacks-in-waiting... How things change.
Provided Proctor is showing decent form throughout the rest of the season, he has definitely earned a few starts at 13 for the All Blacks, especially now that ALB is out of action for a decent length of time and there's not really anyone else in consideration. If it were me, Proctor would be starting in the midfield in two Tests against France and if that doesn't pan out, Razor can revert back to Ioane for the two games against Argentina to kick off the Rugby Championship before the Boks come a calling.
Taylor, Taukei'aho and Aumua will be the three hookers selected for July without a doubt. Taukei'aho has been in good form the past couple of weeks and Aumua showed enough improvement throughout the Test season in 2024 to remain in the squad. McAlister has been excellent for the past few years and it was likely only injuries that prevented him getting a call-up to the All Blacks. If there were a World Cup this year and one of the other three went down injured, he'd be the next cab off the ranks. Given that's not the case, however, I suspect Razor and co will look to invest in Moananu (but I'm sure both will feature for the All Blacks XV - it's a real shame neither of them are eligible for the MABs though).
If Love keeps playing (and performing) at 10 for the Hurricanes then he should be selected as the third option ahead of Perofeta and any other young flyhalves. He would be a considerably better bench player than Beauden Barrett moving forward, with McKenzie the obvious starting playmaker.
I can see Razor plumping for Holland ahead of Lord in the July squad with Lord left to the MABs for their games in Japan, unless he starts hitting his straps very quickly now that he's back (again) from injury for the Chiefs. Beehre is definitely there or thereabouts but Holland is next cab off the ranks.
Somewhat ironically, Razor doesn't think Christian Lio-Willie is big enough to play for the All Blacks. The only slightly left-field selection I can see in the loosies is Cam Christie, otherwise it'll be the same guys as last year.
Cam Christie is an insane take
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Ioane and Leinert-Brown have had plenty of time to nail down the 13 AB jersey and haven’t.
Reiko was good on D last year but hasn't kicked on in setting up players. He's only 28 so I'd expect Robertson will stick with him as his no. 1 for now. No excuse for not giving Proctor more game-time though - ee really need to give Billy P plenty of time against France and hopefully a start in at least one game.
In ALB's case, it's fair to say he's been mucked about so much it's been difficult for him to do that. I do think he's an ideal bench player to enable us to develop new players as 12/13 with his versatility.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Ioane and Leinert-Brown have had plenty of time to nail down the 13 AB jersey and haven’t.
Reiko was good on D last year but hasn't kicked on in setting up players. He's only 28 so I'd expect Robertson will stick with him as his no. 1 for now. No excuse for not giving Proctor more game-time though - ee really need to give Billy P plenty of time against France and hopefully a start in at least one game.
In ALB's case, it's fair to say he's been mucked about so much it's been difficult for him to do that. I do think he's an ideal bench player to enable us to develop new players as 12/13 with his versatility.
For ALB to have racked up 81 caps and not be a consensus pick at either 12,13 or bench says it all really.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Ioane and Leinert-Brown have had plenty of time to nail down the 13 AB jersey and haven’t.
Reiko was good on D last year but hasn't kicked on in setting up players. He's only 28 so I'd expect Robertson will stick with him as his no. 1 for now. No excuse for not giving Proctor more game-time though - ee really need to give Billy P plenty of time against France and hopefully a start in at least one game.
In ALB's case, it's fair to say he's been mucked about so much it's been difficult for him to do that. I do think he's an ideal bench player to enable us to develop new players as 12/13 with his versatility.
For ALB to have racked up 81 caps and not be a consensus pick at either 12,13 or bench says it all really.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Ioane and Leinert-Brown have had plenty of time to nail down the 13 AB jersey and haven’t.
Reiko was good on D last year but hasn't kicked on in setting up players. He's only 28 so I'd expect Robertson will stick with him as his no. 1 for now. No excuse for not giving Proctor more game-time though - ee really need to give Billy P plenty of time against France and hopefully a start in at least one game.
In ALB's case, it's fair to say he's been mucked about so much it's been difficult for him to do that. I do think he's an ideal bench player to enable us to develop new players as 12/13 with his versatility.
For ALB to have racked up 81 caps and not be a consensus pick at either 12,13 or bench says it all really.
He'd be my no.1 pick on the bench right now. Fucked around by every AB coach (esp. Foster) since he debuted and never allowed to settle. His talent was wasted IMHO
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Everybody picks De Groot as the reserve LHP. His form has been abysmal this season. He hasn't shown any sign of physicality. Is he carrying a niggle ? On current form, my bench LHP would be Norris who has improved a lot at scrum time. He has a huge workrate and is certainly the most dynamic prop in NZ at the moment, Xavier Numia not being the same player he was last year.
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@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Poor bastard. The AB Midfield Injury Curse strikes again
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@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Poor bastard. The AB Midfield Injury Curse strikes again
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Poor bastard. The AB Midfield Injury Curse strikes again
Opens up a spot on the bench now. The reaction will be interesting when it's David Havili (I assume).
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Poor bastard. The AB Midfield Injury Curse strikes again
Opens up a spot on the bench now. The reaction will be interesting when it's David Havili (I assume).
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
The reaction will be interesting when it's David Havili (I assume).
Probably. He can play 12, though I'd give AJ Lam or another deserving player a go.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Poor bastard. The AB Midfield Injury Curse strikes again
Opens up a spot on the bench now. The reaction will be interesting when it's David Havili (I assume).
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Poor bastard. The AB Midfield Injury Curse strikes again
Opens up a spot on the bench now. The reaction will be interesting when it's David Havili (I assume).
An amazing utility
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Ioane and Leinert-Brown have had plenty of time to nail down the 13 AB jersey and haven’t.
Reiko was good on D last year but hasn't kicked on in setting up players. He's only 28 so I'd expect Robertson will stick with him as his no. 1 for now. No excuse for not giving Proctor more game-time though - ee really need to give Billy P plenty of time against France and hopefully a start in at least one game.
In ALB's case, it's fair to say he's been mucked about so much it's been difficult for him to do that. I do think he's an ideal bench player to enable us to develop new players as 12/13 with his versatility.
For ALB to have racked up 81 caps and not be a consensus pick at either 12,13 or bench says it all really.
He'd be my no.1 pick on the bench right now. Fucked around by every AB coach (esp. Foster) since he debuted and never allowed to settle. His talent was wasted IMHO
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
He'd be my no.1 pick on the bench right now.
He doesn't suit the bench. He comes on and the only impact he tends to make is giving away needless penalties/cards. He's had endless chances from the bench and is not impactful there.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
intrigued to see CLW rewarded with the spot at eight.
CLW is a good player, and they obviously rate him as he stayed with the ABs on the EOYT. But, he is another undersized loose forward. They seem to like them though.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
intrigued to see CLW rewarded with the spot at eight.
CLW is a good player, and they obviously rate him as he stayed with the ABs on the EOYT. But, he is another undersized loose forward. They seem to like them though.
Outside of Finau, we are lacking in ‘sized’ loose forwards at the moment. What I like about CLW is he at least plays like a traditional number eight.
Sotutu has been very underwhelming for the Blues this year and hasn’t even been mentioned in dispatches. Haig has been injured, which really only leaves Parker. We are a nation of midgets at the moment in the loose forwards!
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Ioane and Leinert-Brown have had plenty of time to nail down the 13 AB jersey and haven’t.
Reiko was good on D last year but hasn't kicked on in setting up players. He's only 28 so I'd expect Robertson will stick with him as his no. 1 for now. No excuse for not giving Proctor more game-time though - ee really need to give Billy P plenty of time against France and hopefully a start in at least one game.
In ALB's case, it's fair to say he's been mucked about so much it's been difficult for him to do that. I do think he's an ideal bench player to enable us to develop new players as 12/13 with his versatility.
For ALB to have racked up 81 caps and not be a consensus pick at either 12,13 or bench says it all really.
He'd be my no.1 pick on the bench right now. Fucked around by every AB coach (esp. Foster) since he debuted and never allowed to settle. His talent was wasted IMHO
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Ioane and Leinert-Brown have had plenty of time to nail down the 13 AB jersey and haven’t.
Reiko was good on D last year but hasn't kicked on in setting up players. He's only 28 so I'd expect Robertson will stick with him as his no. 1 for now. No excuse for not giving Proctor more game-time though - ee really need to give Billy P plenty of time against France and hopefully a start in at least one game.
In ALB's case, it's fair to say he's been mucked about so much it's been difficult for him to do that. I do think he's an ideal bench player to enable us to develop new players as 12/13 with his versatility.
For ALB to have racked up 81 caps and not be a consensus pick at either 12,13 or bench says it all really.
He'd be my no.1 pick on the bench right now. Fucked around by every AB coach (esp. Foster) since he debuted and never allowed to settle. His talent was wasted IMHO
Injuries have played a part. I’m actually amazed he has so many caps at the age of 30 considering all his injuries.
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I also find this whole de Groot has been bad narrative really funny. He has a had a few niggles but has largely been fine.
It almost as if the scrummaging efforts of the two next to him wouldn’t look out of place at club rugby.
EDG is suited to test rugby, Jason Ryan has consistently talked about this. I still think there is plenty of creedence in starting EDG, and bringing Williams on for impact. Who says you can’t sub Williams on after 35 mins like the Boks do?
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky respect your opinion, but Proctor , just don't see it ,let's see how he goes in next couple months.,
It’s not only my opinion mate. The drums have been beating pretty loudly for Proctor to start for a while now and at some point he’ll be too hard to ignore.
I take it you didn’t watch his performance against the Brumbies on Saturday? Either that or you didn’t have your contacts in because he was all class on both sides of the ball and that’s what the ABs have been missing consistently in a centre for far too long.
Personally I wouldn’t mind if the ABs rolled out this team against the French. I’ve also included AJ Lam because for me he’s been pretty damn classy for the Blues and can cover wing if required.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Va’ai
- Sititi
- Lakai
- Savea
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Ioane (I’d back him over Clarke)
- Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei’aho
- De Groot
- Tosi
- Holland
- Kirifi
- Ratima
- Barrett
- Lam
It's the subtle stuff I see with Proctor.
Carrying the ball in two hands, pump fakes, delaying of pass etc.A centre needs to have some "rope a dope" in his arsenal. Proctor knows the assignment.
Is he test class? Who knows...but he is the next and most obvious cab off the rank.
Rieko is game as fuck to his credit and his scramble D is exemplary.
I really want him to succeed becasue I like that he is a bit of an arsehole (on the field anyway).But he isnt a centre, and I feel we have enough evidence now to say that with confidence.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky respect your opinion, but Proctor , just don't see it ,let's see how he goes in next couple months.,
It’s not only my opinion mate. The drums have been beating pretty loudly for Proctor to start for a while now and at some point he’ll be too hard to ignore.
I take it you didn’t watch his performance against the Brumbies on Saturday? Either that or you didn’t have your contacts in because he was all class on both sides of the ball and that’s what the ABs have been missing consistently in a centre for far too long.
Personally I wouldn’t mind if the ABs rolled out this team against the French. I’ve also included AJ Lam because for me he’s been pretty damn classy for the Blues and can cover wing if required.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Va’ai
- Sititi
- Lakai
- Savea
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Ioane (I’d back him over Clarke)
- Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei’aho
- De Groot
- Tosi
- Holland
- Kirifi
- Ratima
- Barrett
- Lam
It's the subtle stuff I see with Proctor.
Carrying the ball in two hands, pump fakes, delaying of pass etc.A centre needs to have some "rope a dope" in his arsenal. Proctor knows the assignment.
Is he test class? Who knows...but he is the next and most obvious cab off the rank.
Rieko is game as fuck to his credit and his scramble D is exemplary.
I really want him to succeed becasue I like that he is a bit of an arsehole (on the field anyway).But he isnt a centre, and I feel we have enough evidence now to say that with confidence.
He looks more the classical 13 than his competition
I remember years ago when I started to notice league midfielders starting to resemble second rowers,
and now I’m starting to think when you look at the international scene , union midfielders are starting to resemble loose forwards more, carry over the gain line , strong defensively, scavenge and win the ball at the breakdown etc
Is that becoming their priority?
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Love is effectively competing with Beauden Barrett for a spot in the 23 I think. He’ll be the third 10 in the squad whatever the case.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Love is effectively competing with Beauden Barrett for a spot in the 23 I think. He’ll be the third 10 in the squad whatever the case.
BB still has his moments, but he is a shadow of himself for most of the time. We really need to move on for the good of the team
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I also find this whole de Groot has been bad narrative really funny. He has a had a few niggles but has largely been fine.
It almost as if the scrummaging efforts of the two next to him wouldn’t look out of place at club rugby.
EDG is suited to test rugby, Jason Ryan has consistently talked about this. I still think there is plenty of creedence in starting EDG, and bringing Williams on for impact. Who says you can’t sub Williams on after 35 mins like the Boks do?
@frugby A genuine question. What does de Groot offer outside of scrummaging? He is a poor ball-carrier who regularly loses the ball in contact, and can be a lazy defender. It's not like he was missed when in the dog box last year. I expect Ryan will still select him, especially with Ofa out, but he needs to do more.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Love is effectively competing with Beauden Barrett for a spot in the 23 I think. He’ll be the third 10 in the squad whatever the case.
BB still has his moments, but he is a shadow of himself for most of the time. We really need to move on for the good of the team
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Love is effectively competing with Beauden Barrett for a spot in the 23 I think. He’ll be the third 10 in the squad whatever the case.
BB still has his moments, but he is a shadow of himself for most of the time. We really need to move on for the good of the team
Think this is where I am at. BB still has moments (and did do for the ABs last year), but I think at the very least we need another option, because I would not want to be relying upon a 35 year old Barrett at the next World Cup.
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@frugby A genuine question. What does de Groot offer outside of scrummaging? He is a poor ball-carrier who regularly loses the ball in contact, and can be a lazy defender. It's not like he was missed when in the dog box last year. I expect Ryan will still select him, especially with Ofa out, but he needs to do more.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby A genuine question. What does de Groot offer outside of scrummaging? He is a poor ball-carrier who regularly loses the ball in contact, and can be a lazy defender. It's not like he was missed when in the dog box last year. I expect Ryan will still select him, especially with Ofa out, but he needs to do more.
Certainly isn't perfect, but I think the fact he is a very good scrummager, and is generally a strong defender works in his favour.
ABs didn't miss him, but also I think you could flip it to say, unless your backups are really week, missing a prop isn't generally a huge issue at test level.
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Just a snapshot on where i’m leaning
I would’nt pick Telea or Ioane
Whats the point ? It would be another lost opportunity to look somewhere else15.W Jordon
14.C Tangitau
11.C Clark
13.B Proctor
12 J Barrett
10 D Mac
9 C Roigard8.H.Sotutu
7. A Savea
6.W Sititi
5.F Holland
4.S Barrett
3.T Lomax
2.C Taylor
1.T WilliamsE Narawa
B Barrett
C Ratima
D Kirifi
T Vai
F Newall
P Tosi
S TaukeiahoI know Hoskings would never get a look in but that back row would be out the gate , i dont see Holland as an off the bench player but hes a big lineout target
given we dont have a rangy 6 .
Narawa gets the outside cover role because he can play midfield and wing
Thought a bit about Fihaki as he can cover wing a fullback and has a massive boot , Tavatavanawai i know would bring so much energy off the bench
I would suggest there are some viable options in this space depending on whom you were playing
Tangitau brings some extra wheels ,stuck with Clark as he creates opportunites with his kickoff chase game , and does offer that power gameHoping Tosi can play both sides , dont rate De Groot
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
Just a snapshot on where i’m leaning
I would’nt pick Telea or Ioane
Whats the point ? It would be another lost opportunity to look somewhere else15.W Jordon
14.C Tangitau
11.C Clark
13.B Proctor
12 J Barrett
10 D Mac
9 C Roigard8.H.Sotutu
7. A Savea
6.W Sititi
5.F Holland
4.S Barrett
3.T Lomax
2.C Taylor
1.T WilliamsE Narawa
B Barrett
C Ratima
D Kirifi
T Vai
F Newall
P Tosi
S TaukeiahoI know Hoskings would never get a look in but that back row would be out the gate , i dont see Holland as an off the bench player but hes a big lineout target
given we dont have a rangy 6 .
Narawa gets the outside cover role because he can play midfield and wing
Thought a bit about Fihaki as he can cover wing a fullback and has a massive boot , Tavatavanawai i know would bring so much energy off the bench
I would suggest there are some viable options in this space depending on whom you were playing
Tangitau brings some extra wheels ,stuck with Clark as he creates opportunites with his kickoff chase game , and does offer that power gameHoping Tosi can play both sides , dont rate De Groot
A lot to like about that team. It's about time we gave the opposition something to worry about, rather than being so cautious all the damned time - that backline and loose forward trio does that.
