All Blacks 2025
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Love is effectively competing with Beauden Barrett for a spot in the 23 I think. He’ll be the third 10 in the squad whatever the case.
BB still has his moments, but he is a shadow of himself for most of the time. We really need to move on for the good of the team
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Love is effectively competing with Beauden Barrett for a spot in the 23 I think. He’ll be the third 10 in the squad whatever the case.
BB still has his moments, but he is a shadow of himself for most of the time. We really need to move on for the good of the team
Think this is where I am at. BB still has moments (and did do for the ABs last year), but I think at the very least we need another option, because I would not want to be relying upon a 35 year old Barrett at the next World Cup.
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@frugby A genuine question. What does de Groot offer outside of scrummaging? He is a poor ball-carrier who regularly loses the ball in contact, and can be a lazy defender. It's not like he was missed when in the dog box last year. I expect Ryan will still select him, especially with Ofa out, but he needs to do more.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby A genuine question. What does de Groot offer outside of scrummaging? He is a poor ball-carrier who regularly loses the ball in contact, and can be a lazy defender. It's not like he was missed when in the dog box last year. I expect Ryan will still select him, especially with Ofa out, but he needs to do more.
Certainly isn't perfect, but I think the fact he is a very good scrummager, and is generally a strong defender works in his favour.
ABs didn't miss him, but also I think you could flip it to say, unless your backups are really week, missing a prop isn't generally a huge issue at test level.
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Just a snapshot on where i’m leaning
I would’nt pick Telea or Ioane
Whats the point ? It would be another lost opportunity to look somewhere else15.W Jordon
14.C Tangitau
11.C Clark
13.B Proctor
12 J Barrett
10 D Mac
9 C Roigard8.H.Sotutu
7. A Savea
6.W Sititi
5.F Holland
4.S Barrett
3.T Lomax
2.C Taylor
1.T WilliamsE Narawa
B Barrett
C Ratima
D Kirifi
T Vai
F Newall
P Tosi
S TaukeiahoI know Hoskings would never get a look in but that back row would be out the gate , i dont see Holland as an off the bench player but hes a big lineout target
given we dont have a rangy 6 .
Narawa gets the outside cover role because he can play midfield and wing
Thought a bit about Fihaki as he can cover wing a fullback and has a massive boot , Tavatavanawai i know would bring so much energy off the bench
I would suggest there are some viable options in this space depending on whom you were playing
Tangitau brings some extra wheels ,stuck with Clark as he creates opportunites with his kickoff chase game , and does offer that power gameHoping Tosi can play both sides , dont rate De Groot
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
Just a snapshot on where i’m leaning
I would’nt pick Telea or Ioane
Whats the point ? It would be another lost opportunity to look somewhere else15.W Jordon
14.C Tangitau
11.C Clark
13.B Proctor
12 J Barrett
10 D Mac
9 C Roigard8.H.Sotutu
7. A Savea
6.W Sititi
5.F Holland
4.S Barrett
3.T Lomax
2.C Taylor
1.T WilliamsE Narawa
B Barrett
C Ratima
D Kirifi
T Vai
F Newall
P Tosi
S TaukeiahoI know Hoskings would never get a look in but that back row would be out the gate , i dont see Holland as an off the bench player but hes a big lineout target
given we dont have a rangy 6 .
Narawa gets the outside cover role because he can play midfield and wing
Thought a bit about Fihaki as he can cover wing a fullback and has a massive boot , Tavatavanawai i know would bring so much energy off the bench
I would suggest there are some viable options in this space depending on whom you were playing
Tangitau brings some extra wheels ,stuck with Clark as he creates opportunites with his kickoff chase game , and does offer that power gameHoping Tosi can play both sides , dont rate De Groot
A lot to like about that team. It's about time we gave the opposition something to worry about, rather than being so cautious all the damned time - that backline and loose forward trio does that.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky respect your opinion, but Proctor , just don't see it ,let's see how he goes in next couple months.,
It’s not only my opinion mate. The drums have been beating pretty loudly for Proctor to start for a while now and at some point he’ll be too hard to ignore.
I take it you didn’t watch his performance against the Brumbies on Saturday? Either that or you didn’t have your contacts in because he was all class on both sides of the ball and that’s what the ABs have been missing consistently in a centre for far too long.
Personally I wouldn’t mind if the ABs rolled out this team against the French. I’ve also included AJ Lam because for me he’s been pretty damn classy for the Blues and can cover wing if required.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Va’ai
- Sititi
- Lakai
- Savea
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Ioane (I’d back him over Clarke)
- Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei’aho
- De Groot
- Tosi
- Holland
- Kirifi
- Ratima
- Barrett
- Lam
It's the subtle stuff I see with Proctor.
Carrying the ball in two hands, pump fakes, delaying of pass etc.A centre needs to have some "rope a dope" in his arsenal. Proctor knows the assignment.
Is he test class? Who knows...but he is the next and most obvious cab off the rank.
Rieko is game as fuck to his credit and his scramble D is exemplary.
I really want him to succeed becasue I like that he is a bit of an arsehole (on the field anyway).But he isnt a centre, and I feel we have enough evidence now to say that with confidence.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky respect your opinion, but Proctor , just don't see it ,let's see how he goes in next couple months.,
It’s not only my opinion mate. The drums have been beating pretty loudly for Proctor to start for a while now and at some point he’ll be too hard to ignore.
I take it you didn’t watch his performance against the Brumbies on Saturday? Either that or you didn’t have your contacts in because he was all class on both sides of the ball and that’s what the ABs have been missing consistently in a centre for far too long.
Personally I wouldn’t mind if the ABs rolled out this team against the French. I’ve also included AJ Lam because for me he’s been pretty damn classy for the Blues and can cover wing if required.
- Williams
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Va’ai
- Sititi
- Lakai
- Savea
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Ioane (I’d back him over Clarke)
- Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- Love
- Taukei’aho
- De Groot
- Tosi
- Holland
- Kirifi
- Ratima
- Barrett
- Lam
It's the subtle stuff I see with Proctor.
Carrying the ball in two hands, pump fakes, delaying of pass etc.A centre needs to have some "rope a dope" in his arsenal. Proctor knows the assignment.
Is he test class? Who knows...but he is the next and most obvious cab off the rank.
Rieko is game as fuck to his credit and his scramble D is exemplary.
I really want him to succeed becasue I like that he is a bit of an arsehole (on the field anyway).But he isnt a centre, and I feel we have enough evidence now to say that with confidence.
I'd pick Proctor, but I'm not in the hardline Rieko isn't a centre camp - largely because he was actually really quite good in the WC. He's been mediocre since though in both successful and shit Blues sides - and there's no guaranteed spots, he needs to show he is better than the other guy.
I'd also not pick him on the wing without seeing him excel there again first - you don't pick a 28 year old winger on past glory from years ago when you have Clarke who was excellent last year and Tangitau banging the door down. -
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
intrigued to see CLW rewarded with the spot at eight.
CLW is a good player, and they obviously rate him as he stayed with the ABs on the EOYT. But, he is another undersized loose forward. They seem to like them though.
Outside of Finau, we are lacking in ‘sized’ loose forwards at the moment. What I like about CLW is he at least plays like a traditional number eight.
Sotutu has been very underwhelming for the Blues this year and hasn’t even been mentioned in dispatches. Haig has been injured, which really only leaves Parker. We are a nation of midgets at the moment in the loose forwards!
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
intrigued to see CLW rewarded with the spot at eight.
CLW is a good player, and they obviously rate him as he stayed with the ABs on the EOYT. But, he is another undersized loose forward. They seem to like them though.
Outside of Finau, we are lacking in ‘sized’ loose forwards at the moment. What I like about CLW is he at least plays like a traditional number eight.
Sotutu has been very underwhelming for the Blues this year and hasn’t even been mentioned in dispatches. Haig has been injured, which really only leaves Parker. We are a nation of midgets at the moment in the loose forwards!
Sotutu certainly hasn't been the clear-cut comp player of the year in a champion side this year - but he has been both injured and suspended, and still looks the Blues best forward when he does play to me. He's got size and a fair bit of grunt, which frankly are the main things we are lacking in the loose, and happens to have shit-hot ball skills to go with it.
CLW is a very good but medium sized loosie. It's possible that he might be the form one at present, but they are a dime a dozen in NZ.
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It was only a couple of seasons ago that Billy Proctor's five-year contract was largely considered one of the worst deals done in contracting history and Peter Umaga-Jensen and Bailyn Sullivan were being regularly touted as All-Blacks-in-waiting... How things change.
Provided Proctor is showing decent form throughout the rest of the season, he has definitely earned a few starts at 13 for the All Blacks, especially now that ALB is out of action for a decent length of time and there's not really anyone else in consideration. If it were me, Proctor would be starting in the midfield in two Tests against France and if that doesn't pan out, Razor can revert back to Ioane for the two games against Argentina to kick off the Rugby Championship before the Boks come a calling.
Taylor, Taukei'aho and Aumua will be the three hookers selected for July without a doubt. Taukei'aho has been in good form the past couple of weeks and Aumua showed enough improvement throughout the Test season in 2024 to remain in the squad. McAlister has been excellent for the past few years and it was likely only injuries that prevented him getting a call-up to the All Blacks. If there were a World Cup this year and one of the other three went down injured, he'd be the next cab off the ranks. Given that's not the case, however, I suspect Razor and co will look to invest in Moananu (but I'm sure both will feature for the All Blacks XV - it's a real shame neither of them are eligible for the MABs though).
If Love keeps playing (and performing) at 10 for the Hurricanes then he should be selected as the third option ahead of Perofeta and any other young flyhalves. He would be a considerably better bench player than Beauden Barrett moving forward, with McKenzie the obvious starting playmaker.
I can see Razor plumping for Holland ahead of Lord in the July squad with Lord left to the MABs for their games in Japan, unless he starts hitting his straps very quickly now that he's back (again) from injury for the Chiefs. Beehre is definitely there or thereabouts but Holland is next cab off the ranks.
Somewhat ironically, Razor doesn't think Christian Lio-Willie is big enough to play for the All Blacks. The only slightly left-field selection I can see in the loosies is Cam Christie, otherwise it'll be the same guys as last year.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
It was only a couple of seasons ago that Billy Proctor's five-year contract was largely considered one of the worst deals done in contracting history
Sheesh, that's over egging the pudding, it was more along the lines of WTF than worst contract in history,
It's also noticeable that he didn't live up to the potential of that contract until it ended and he signed a two year contract, clearly the pressure was too much for him.
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I also find this whole de Groot has been bad narrative really funny. He has a had a few niggles but has largely been fine.
It almost as if the scrummaging efforts of the two next to him wouldn’t look out of place at club rugby.
EDG is suited to test rugby, Jason Ryan has consistently talked about this. I still think there is plenty of creedence in starting EDG, and bringing Williams on for impact. Who says you can’t sub Williams on after 35 mins like the Boks do?
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I also find this whole de Groot has been bad narrative really funny. He has a had a few niggles but has largely been fine.
It almost as if the scrummaging efforts of the two next to him wouldn’t look out of place at club rugby.
EDG is suited to test rugby, Jason Ryan has consistently talked about this. I still think there is plenty of creedence in starting EDG, and bringing Williams on for impact. Who says you can’t sub Williams on after 35 mins like the Boks do?
I think it’s quite easy to pick on an AB, especially in a side that is playing terrible. We expect them to be great week in week out without fail. I recall Tamaiti Williams(injured a fair amount yes) and Fletcher Newell both having below average seasons last year in an under performing side. Very hard for props to stand out or even look good when the pack struggles to go forward week in week out. Get to the test arena and they went up a level, I expect the same from EDG.
EDG has been doing his core roles well, I was concerned about him at the start of the season when the injury news popped up as I know his fitness has been his worst enemy in the past. This year he looks as light and fit as he has ever been but then picks up an ankle injury here and there. If you watch closely you will see he is frustrated as well, as the most senior player that a lot of guys are looking to in that team he will be feeling the heat the most I would say.
Yes he hasn’t had his best season but that’s footy, ups and downs. A 26 year old who is only coming into his prime propping years.
Might come across like I have highlanders glasses on here but I have been watching him closely week in week out and I will cast criticism on any player when it is warranted, I just don’t think EDG has been that bad. Has he been in great form, no, but with what I’ve been watching each week I am not concerned at all.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I also find this whole de Groot has been bad narrative really funny. He has a had a few niggles but has largely been fine.
It almost as if the scrummaging efforts of the two next to him wouldn’t look out of place at club rugby.
EDG is suited to test rugby, Jason Ryan has consistently talked about this. I still think there is plenty of creedence in starting EDG, and bringing Williams on for impact. Who says you can’t sub Williams on after 35 mins like the Boks do?
I think it’s quite easy to pick on an AB, especially in a side that is playing terrible. We expect them to be great week in week out without fail. I recall Tamaiti Williams(injured a fair amount yes) and Fletcher Newell both having below average seasons last year in an under performing side. Very hard for props to stand out or even look good when the pack struggles to go forward week in week out. Get to the test arena and they went up a level, I expect the same from EDG.
EDG has been doing his core roles well, I was concerned about him at the start of the season when the injury news popped up as I know his fitness has been his worst enemy in the past. This year he looks as light and fit as he has ever been but then picks up an ankle injury here and there. If you watch closely you will see he is frustrated as well, as the most senior player that a lot of guys are looking to in that team he will be feeling the heat the most I would say.
Yes he hasn’t had his best season but that’s footy, ups and downs. A 26 year old who is only coming into his prime propping years.
Might come across like I have highlanders glasses on here but I have been watching him closely week in week out and I will cast criticism on any player when it is warranted, I just don’t think EDG has been that bad. Has he been in great form, no, but with what I’ve been watching each week I am not concerned at all.
@Landers92 I think there are quite a number of ABs who have been below the standard I'd expect from them for most of Super so far, and am hoping that a big part of that is the conditioning programs and when they're aiming to peak. Scott Barrett, Lomax, Aumua, Tosi etc have hardly been playing the house down.
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@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
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Billy Proctor signed until 2027.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
I hate to break it to you… but it just means we are about to see more of Mr Havili.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
Weirdly I still think of QT as the young new fulla but he's been in the ABs since 2021.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
intrigued to see CLW rewarded with the spot at eight.
CLW is a good player, and they obviously rate him as he stayed with the ABs on the EOYT. But, he is another undersized loose forward. They seem to like them though.
Outside of Finau, we are lacking in ‘sized’ loose forwards at the moment. What I like about CLW is he at least plays like a traditional number eight.
Sotutu has been very underwhelming for the Blues this year and hasn’t even been mentioned in dispatches. Haig has been injured, which really only leaves Parker. We are a nation of midgets at the moment in the loose forwards!
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Haig has been injured
And been very underwhelming on his return, not the behemoth I was told played last season.
Howden on the other hand has really stepped up, him and Ah Kuoi are the guys I'll be watching at the business end and certainly a better size than CLW. Here's hoping they keep delivering.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
Weirdly I still think of QT as the young new fulla but he's been in the ABs since 2021.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
Weirdly I still think of QT as the young new fulla but he's been in the ABs since 2021.
14 caps most likely in a bit part role doesn't exactly scream experience.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
Weirdly I still think of QT as the young new fulla but he's been in the ABs since 2021.
14 caps most likely in a bit part role doesn't exactly scream experience.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
Weirdly I still think of QT as the young new fulla but he's been in the ABs since 2021.
14 caps most likely in a bit part role doesn't exactly scream experience.
David Havili has more than double that plus his incredible utility value.
.....and we all know he's even more of a shoe in now.
But ( sigh ) Tupaea appears from the outset to have a lot more upside and physicality to battle the big nasty 12s from other countries.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@1kiwi said in All Blacks 2025:
ALB gone for the season
Injury the Allblacks best selector once again....
as solid as ALB is (well mostly...) this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise as his automatic 'experience' pick in the 23 has been among the most excruciatingly boring aspects of AB selections since 2020/21, I want to see Tupaea, Higgins, LF, Proctor, etc.. get a decent run for once.
Totally agree. But it's also good to have an experienced solid bloke on the bench to backup the new fellas. Maybe something QT can provide.
Weirdly I still think of QT as the young new fulla but he's been in the ABs since 2021.
14 caps most likely in a bit part role doesn't exactly scream experience.
David Havili has more than double that plus his incredible utility value.
.....and we all know he's even more of a shoe in now.
But ( sigh ) Tupaea appears from the outset to have a lot more upside and physicality to battle the big nasty 12s from other countries.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
shoe
No
Stop being negative, actually read my whole post
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
shoe
No
Stop being negative, actually read my whole post
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
shoe
No
Stop being negative, actually read my whole post
Shoo
