All Blacks 2025
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look, guys like Jacobson, Havili and Blackadder are really good rugby players. On top of this, Blackadder aside, they are showing good domestic form.
My problem is, they have shown domestic form before, only to go on and prove to not be needle movers at test level. So why pick them again? what is the point? They're not different players this year, they are the same players in the same form. Picking them because experience and cover is about as conservative as you can get. They should be replaced by the new guys to see if they can be difference makers.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Sure, but I'd wager he was probably already in the squad before that game. I don't think a guy gets picked for the ABs based off one game.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Sure, but I'd wager he was probably already in the squad before that game. I don't think a guy gets picked for the ABs based off one game.
It's hard for me to comment on that, maybe a Chiefs fan can shed some light, but I don't recall him playing the house down before that game. I also remember Razor saying in an interview when the initial squad was selected that a couple players shone in the playoffs that caught his eye, so to me that means Sititi made a late claim and was picked after ignore based on his block busting game against the Canes. Any excuse not to pick Sotutu as well was probably a factor and also don't forget Brayden Iose was also in the conversation after a big season before Sititi completely outplayed him.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I am genuinely curious, what do these "bold" selections actually look like? Wallace Sititi and Pasilio Tosi were both very bold picks.
See, for me this is concerning. We've got so used to mediocrity that selecting absolute stand out form players and only getting them on the field if injury strikes, is considered very bold.
Sititi showed good form, but hardly put in a body of work that said he was an All Black for the here and now. As for Tosi - was he on anyone's radar?
Sititi's performance in the semi final vs the Canes was about as obvious of a 'pick me I'm All Black material' as it gets - he was the best player on the field by a country mile.
Sure, but I'd wager he was probably already in the squad before that game. I don't think a guy gets picked for the ABs based off one game.
It's hard for me to comment on that, maybe a Chiefs fan can shed some light, but I don't recall him playing the house down before that game. I also remember Razor saying in an interview when the initial squad was selected that a couple players shone in the playoffs that caught his eye, so to me that means Sititi made a late claim and was picked after ignore based on his block busting game against the Canes. Any excuse not to pick Sotutu as well was probably a factor and also don't forget Brayden Iose was also in the conversation after a big season before Sititi completely outplayed him.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
based on his block busting game against the Canes. ... Iose ...
I detect a pattern
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Sititi signs on through to the WC, great news for NZ Rugby.
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Some good news for the upcoming French series.
The president of the FĂ©dĂ©ration Française de Rugby (FFR) has brushed off claims of a France âBâ team touring New Zealand in July, giving the strongest indication yet that âexceptions are possibleâ for some French stars involved in the Top 14 final.
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@KiwiMurph said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
Who on earth has thought that "Ardie is not All Black level" in the last nine years?
Plenty suggested he didn't play that well last year. And they were right.
Definition of a straw man argument
and it drives particular balance requirements in the other two loosies.
The issue was not with Ardie, it was Ardie + Sam Cane left an awful lot for the 6 to do ... you needed peak Kaino to try to balance it up.
Our loose forwards have not been super impressive over the last few years
@nzzp said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:
Who on earth has thought that "Ardie is not All Black level" in the last nine years?
Plenty suggested he didn't play that well last year. And they were right.
Definition of a straw man argument
and it drives particular balance requirements in the other two loosies.
The issue was not with Ardie, it was Ardie + Sam Cane left an awful lot for the 6 to do ... you needed peak Kaino to try to balance it up.
Our loose forwards have not been super impressive over the last few years
Yes. Our loosies have been a bit shit, less than the sum of their parts - and it all started with Foster making Cane captain, when Savea was the better 7. That forced Savea from 7 to 8, with both of them undroppable, and left us with no balance.
7 has always been his best position. -
look, guys like Jacobson, Havili and Blackadder are really good rugby players. On top of this, Blackadder aside, they are showing good domestic form.
My problem is, they have shown domestic form before, only to go on and prove to not be needle movers at test level. So why pick them again? what is the point? They're not different players this year, they are the same players in the same form. Picking them because experience and cover is about as conservative as you can get. They should be replaced by the new guys to see if they can be difference makers.
@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
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@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
**Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.**
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
The journeymen were surrounded by the shinies in 2011 in McCaw, Nonu, Smith, Read, Kaino etc ... so let's not go too far down that track Mitch.
In 2007we lost two 10s in the match, and the superstar GOAT subsequently admitted that we made the error of not setting for a droppie and instead played for a penalty.
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@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
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@Chris-B first bok test last year, wasn't it one of the most experienced guys (Ofa) from the bench who got the yellow card?
@reprobate It was. But, we also botched a lineout and gave away a dumb penalty to piggyback the Boks up the field.
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Some good news for the upcoming French series.
The president of the FĂ©dĂ©ration Française de Rugby (FFR) has brushed off claims of a France âBâ team touring New Zealand in July, giving the strongest indication yet that âexceptions are possibleâ for some French stars involved in the Top 14 final.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Some good news for the upcoming French series.
The president of the FĂ©dĂ©ration Française de Rugby (FFR) has brushed off claims of a France âBâ team touring New Zealand in July, giving the strongest indication yet that âexceptions are possibleâ for some French stars involved in the Top 14 final.
Realistically how many?
Compare to an All Black Team without C, say, Chiefs and Saders.
Groot
Aumua
Lomax
Paddy T
Holland
Kirifi
Iose
Lakai
Roigard
Barrett
Clarke
Barrett
Ioane/ Proctor
Telea/Lam
Love?
?
Tosi
?
Savea / Papalii
Christie (I know)
Tavatavanawai / Lam / Tangitau / Taele -
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Some good news for the upcoming French series.
The president of the FĂ©dĂ©ration Française de Rugby (FFR) has brushed off claims of a France âBâ team touring New Zealand in July, giving the strongest indication yet that âexceptions are possibleâ for some French stars involved in the Top 14 final.
Realistically how many?
Compare to an All Black Team without C, say, Chiefs and Saders.
Groot
Aumua
Lomax
Paddy T
Holland
Kirifi
Iose
Lakai
Roigard
Barrett
Clarke
Barrett
Ioane/ Proctor
Telea/Lam
Love?
?
Tosi
?
Savea / Papalii
Christie (I know)
Tavatavanawai / Lam / Tangitau / Taele@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Some good news for the upcoming French series.
The president of the FĂ©dĂ©ration Française de Rugby (FFR) has brushed off claims of a France âBâ team touring New Zealand in July, giving the strongest indication yet that âexceptions are possibleâ for some French stars involved in the Top 14 final.
Realistically how many?
Compare to an All Black Team without C, say, Chiefs and Saders.
Groot
Aumua
Lomax
Paddy T
Holland
Kirifi
Iose
Lakai
Roigard
Barrett
Clarke
Barrett
Ioane/ Proctor
Telea/Lam
Love?
?
Tosi
?
Savea / Papalii
Christie (I know)
Tavatavanawai / Lam / Tangitau / TaeleI think Du Pont is injured, but hopefully Romain Ntamack, Damian Penaud and Louis Bielle-Biarrey come across.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
**Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.**
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
The journeymen were surrounded by the shinies in 2011 in McCaw, Nonu, Smith, Read, Kaino etc ... so let's not go too far down that track Mitch.
In 2007we lost two 10s in the match, and the superstar GOAT subsequently admitted that we made the error of not setting for a droppie and instead played for a penalty.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
**Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.**
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
The journeymen were surrounded by the shinies in 2011 in McCaw, Nonu, Smith, Read, Kaino etc ... so let's not go too far down that track Mitch.
Do you still own that half acre section at Cape Canaveral that's designated as the Andy Ellis Memorial Launchpad?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
**Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.**
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
The journeymen were surrounded by the shinies in 2011 in McCaw, Nonu, Smith, Read, Kaino etc ... so let's not go too far down that track Mitch.
Do you still own that half acre section at Cape Canaveral that's designated as the Andy Ellis Memorial Launchpad?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
**Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.**
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
The journeymen were surrounded by the shinies in 2011 in McCaw, Nonu, Smith, Read, Kaino etc ... so let's not go too far down that track Mitch.
Do you still own that half acre section at Cape Canaveral that's designated as the Andy Ellis Memorial Launchpad?
It's fallen into disrepair after a maintenance contract was awarded to Blackadder Corp.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Some good news for the upcoming French series.
The president of the FĂ©dĂ©ration Française de Rugby (FFR) has brushed off claims of a France âBâ team touring New Zealand in July, giving the strongest indication yet that âexceptions are possibleâ for some French stars involved in the Top 14 final.
Realistically how many?
Compare to an All Black Team without C, say, Chiefs and Saders.
Groot
Aumua
Lomax
Paddy T
Holland
Kirifi
Iose
Lakai
Roigard
Barrett
Clarke
Barrett
Ioane/ Proctor
Telea/Lam
Love?
?
Tosi
?
Savea / Papalii
Christie (I know)
Tavatavanawai / Lam / Tangitau / Taele -
@mariner4life There's obviously some truth in what you say, but there's also some caveats.
One is that we're never going to have 36 Richie McCaws in our squad. There's always going to be a continuum from the brilliant, to guys on the fringe who you wish were better.
But, that doesn't mean picking the next cab off the rank will be (better). There's got to be a reasonable chance that he will be - otherwise, you're just selecting someone to "give them a go", with a risk that their "difference-making" will be to lose the match for you.
It's pretty rare, IMO, that a brilliant young player gets ignored/missed for long. More likely you're shuffling the third choice and fourth choice guys.
Sometimes, you're just better off with the journeymen. Case in point, 2011 RWC Final.
The Fern would have shot Beaver and Andy Ellis into the sun if they'd had a rocket - but, in the end, they were guys who could do what was necessary.
Contrast to probably 2007 and 2019, where the bright and shiny boys didn't quite have the resilience.
And probably, the first Bok test last year, when we had the winning of the game until the last 10 minutes, when we had to roll out lots of guys with few tests between them and the Boks finished over the top of us.
@Chris-B i feel like you are arguing a point i didn't make.
Not everyone in a rugby team should be a superstar. You need a balance of flash fluffybunnies and workers.
BUT
Just because you are a "worker" doesn't mean you aren't good at core roles. If you are a loose forward worker who doesn't make dominant tackles or move bodies quickly at ruck time, then what good are you? Two of those guys i mentioned fit this to a tee. Work hard? yes. Do effective work once you get there? not so much.
Likewise a back should be able to either distribute the ball well (hand or foot), or be a strong carrier (maybe defender as well), or be fucking quick. I am not sure the back i mentioned brings any of those skills to a high standard.
Even teh workers need to be more than "solid" or that old fucking cliche "won't let you down". I think this is especially true for those earmarked as bench players.
Also Beaver absolutely sums up what i am saying. Beaver was the best 10 in the country when he got the Chiefs to the GF and made the ABs. Turns out he wasn't actually good enough at the next level though and was rightfully rissolled. He was brought back only in the most dire of emergencies, and played the ultimate "limited skillset" game to squeak the narrowest of wins. And was never seen again. The everyman's fairytale.
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@booboo I guess they've got a Top14 and we've got five-and-a-bit Super teams, so hopefully a bit less impact.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse yeah tough one eh, reckon with our aging and leaving outside backs, there's got to be a punt on some newbies and what better opportunity than a touring french side? Worked wonders just over 20 years ago.
Carter would be an interesting one too, shades of Jane, his "style" might work well at test level.
French series an ideal opportunity to experiment a bit. Not just new ABs, but the likes of Love, Lakai, etc. A give players like QT & Sami T some serious game time.
Don't disagree with you, but there is the obvious problem with NZers not accepting a loss - especially to an under strength side. AB legacy and all that.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse yeah tough one eh, reckon with our aging and leaving outside backs, there's got to be a punt on some newbies and what better opportunity than a touring french side? Worked wonders just over 20 years ago.
Carter would be an interesting one too, shades of Jane, his "style" might work well at test level.
French series an ideal opportunity to experiment a bit. Not just new ABs, but the likes of Love, Lakai, etc. A give players like QT & Sami T some serious game time.
Don't disagree with you, but there is the obvious problem with NZers not accepting a loss - especially to an under strength side. AB legacy and all that.
Is it actually a fact that France are going to turn up with a B side? Havenât heard much more on this coming out of France other than what was thrown out there last year by their coach
Edit: Just scrolled down and saw the stuff article - so expect nearly a full strength team to be touring
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@Chris-B i feel like you are arguing a point i didn't make.
Not everyone in a rugby team should be a superstar. You need a balance of flash fluffybunnies and workers.
BUT
Just because you are a "worker" doesn't mean you aren't good at core roles. If you are a loose forward worker who doesn't make dominant tackles or move bodies quickly at ruck time, then what good are you? Two of those guys i mentioned fit this to a tee. Work hard? yes. Do effective work once you get there? not so much.
Likewise a back should be able to either distribute the ball well (hand or foot), or be a strong carrier (maybe defender as well), or be fucking quick. I am not sure the back i mentioned brings any of those skills to a high standard.
Even teh workers need to be more than "solid" or that old fucking cliche "won't let you down". I think this is especially true for those earmarked as bench players.
Also Beaver absolutely sums up what i am saying. Beaver was the best 10 in the country when he got the Chiefs to the GF and made the ABs. Turns out he wasn't actually good enough at the next level though and was rightfully rissolled. He was brought back only in the most dire of emergencies, and played the ultimate "limited skillset" game to squeak the narrowest of wins. And was never seen again. The everyman's fairytale.
@mariner4life I guess my point in a nutshell is that the guy you bring in has to have a good chance of being better.
"Giving someone a go" because they're "Not XYX" isn't a sound plan.
And yet it's pretty easy for us to say that Razor should give someone a go. If that guy loses a tight test match for us, it will be the same people howling for Razor's head. It's part of the reason the coaches are so conservative - and, why, for instance it looks like Billy Proctor was under-utilized last year. They didn't want to risk giving him a go against the big teams.
On my boy Davy, I'm sure he knows he's on thin ice. Despite the seemingly common perception that he's one of Razor's favourites - when it comes to AB selection - he's not.
I'm pretty sure he was the only member of the RWC squad who didn't make Razor's first squad.
He got three goes of the bench last year. Once against Australia, when Jordie was injured and Razor said they'd planned to play Billy, but he wasn't seen as adequate cover for 2nd five. One against Japan, when Jordie and Rieko had flown ahead to Europe. And once vs Italy when again Jordie was injured and Billy had come home for baby birthing.
As I said last year - he's probably the third best second-five and his closest contender was a converted wing who had only played a handful of games in the position (nostrildamus can tell us how many).
If everyone was fit this year, I'm sure they'd pick Tupaea ahead of him. Tupaea will (IMO) get picked anyway, they need his midfield utility value, but Dave might get a reprieve while ALB is unavailable. Or they might pick Higgins (but he'll be lucky to get a run - and I'm not sure they'd want to give him a debut vs France if injury dictated it).
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@mariner4life I guess my point in a nutshell is that the guy you bring in has to have a good chance of being better.
"Giving someone a go" because they're "Not XYX" isn't a sound plan.
And yet it's pretty easy for us to say that Razor should give someone a go. If that guy loses a tight test match for us, it will be the same people howling for Razor's head. It's part of the reason the coaches are so conservative - and, why, for instance it looks like Billy Proctor was under-utilized last year. They didn't want to risk giving him a go against the big teams.
On my boy Davy, I'm sure he knows he's on thin ice. Despite the seemingly common perception that he's one of Razor's favourites - when it comes to AB selection - he's not.
I'm pretty sure he was the only member of the RWC squad who didn't make Razor's first squad.
He got three goes of the bench last year. Once against Australia, when Jordie was injured and Razor said they'd planned to play Billy, but he wasn't seen as adequate cover for 2nd five. One against Japan, when Jordie and Rieko had flown ahead to Europe. And once vs Italy when again Jordie was injured and Billy had come home for baby birthing.
As I said last year - he's probably the third best second-five and his closest contender was a converted wing who had only played a handful of games in the position (nostrildamus can tell us how many).
If everyone was fit this year, I'm sure they'd pick Tupaea ahead of him. Tupaea will (IMO) get picked anyway, they need his midfield utility value, but Dave might get a reprieve while ALB is unavailable. Or they might pick Higgins (but he'll be lucky to get a run - and I'm not sure they'd want to give him a debut vs France if injury dictated it).
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
the guy you bring in has to have a good chance of being better
while i get this, how exactly are you going to know if you don't give it a crack? Look at the fundamentals or what they bring and make a call. Known substandard quantities racking up squad selections because there is no guarantee someone isn't going to do better is cowardice.
I keep thinking about the French back 3, which i rate as the best in the game. Those guys are reckless renegades who would never get AB caps because they make glaring fuck ups while trying shit. Penaud is amazing but by christ he can make a clanger. That would never be tolerated by NZ selectors, and they would be left to rot behind known quantities who don't have their upside, but are seen as a safer pair of hands.
The interesting juxtaposition is the leeway these same players would get in NZ if they already had 80 caps.
