All Blacks 2025

reprobate

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

I wonder if that means no Hoskins

Even if fatty Ryan wasn't a hater, the problem for Hos is that he's an 8, in a team where the coach doesn't like specialists.

I know I'm a broken record on the subject, but I'm going to be extremely fucked off (again) when they don't pick him.

Think it was Mariner who used the phrase "guys who move the needle". That is exactly who I think Sotutu is. He will never have the number of involvements someone like Blackadder/Papalii/Jacobson does, but he may well be the guy who creates the winning try against a tight defence.

I am still holding out some slim hopes based on Ardie now looking like a definite starter at 7 rather than 8, someone's bit of gossip earlier in the season about Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat, and that he has built into the season slowly - he was the one Blues guy who I think really lifted to try and get them back up over Moana. When Roberston picks (the admittedly excellent) Lio-Willie instead, it's going to do my head in. We can't afford our coaches to ignore guys like Sotutu, they need to back themselves to get the best out of them.

nzzp

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

Dan54

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

Frank

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

I wonder if that means no Hoskins

Even if fatty Ryan wasn't a hater, the problem for Hos is that he's an 8, in a team where the coach doesn't like specialists.

And the third best 8 in NZ after Savea and Sititi.

reprobate

@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

I wonder if that means no Hoskins

Even if fatty Ryan wasn't a hater, the problem for Hos is that he's an 8, in a team where the coach doesn't like specialists.

And the third best 8 in NZ after Savea and Sititi.

Who are the player of the year in 7, and the incumbent AB 6....

canefan

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

Razor has hacked Dan's account

Nepia

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

~~Razor~~ Tubby Ryan has hacked Dan's account

This is how I would do it, and emphasis on the "personal thing".

reprobate

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

As it happens, they've just announced one:
Richard Capstick
Ben Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Emeka Illione
Jack Kenningham
Tom Willis

If he was eligible for that list, I'd reckon he'd be on it.

MN5

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

As it happens, they've just announced one:
Richard Capstick
Ben Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Emeka Illione
Jack Kenningham
Tom Willis

If he was eligible for that list, I'd reckon he'd be on it.

Three of them are with the Lions though

reprobate

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

As it happens, they've just announced one:
Richard Capstick
Ben Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Emeka Illione
Jack Kenningham
Tom Willis

If he was eligible for that list, I'd reckon he'd be on it.

Three of them are with the Lions though

None of them are with the Lions, three others are (and there are injuries) - nevertheless, it's the current England squad.
edit: unless that's what Dan meant - he wouldn't make the squad because he'd be with the Lions?

MN5

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

As it happens, they've just announced one:
Richard Capstick
Ben Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Emeka Illione
Jack Kenningham
Tom Willis

If he was eligible for that list, I'd reckon he'd be on it.

Three of them are with the Lions though

None of them are with the Lions, three others are (and there are injuries) - nevertheless, it's the current England squad.

That's what I meant so it is a weakened squad

Mr Fish

My thoughts, a month out from squad selection...

Hookers
Guaranteed - Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua, Samisoni Taukei'aho
George Bell drops out to accommodate the return of Taukei'aho. Brodie McAlister has also been playing well but there's just no space. A position of real strength at the moment.

Props
Guaranteed - Tamaiti Williams, Tyrel Lomax, Fletcher Newell
Probable - Ethan de Groot, Pasilio Tosi, Ofa Tu'ungafasi (if fit)
Possible - George Bower, Ollie Norris, George Dyer
Razor could easily stick with the same six as last year, who all earned considerable minutes. There's a question mark hanging over Tu'ungafasi's availability which could open the door for another loosehead, while Dyer has once again been strong and started both games for the All Blacks XV at the end of last year.

Locks
Guaranteed - Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa'i
Probable - Patrick Tuipulotu
Possible - Josh Lord, Fabian Holland, Naitoa Ah Kuoi
Likely just a straight shoot-out between Lord and Holland unless there's room for five locks (which could be feasible, if Vaa'i is considered as a blindside option), although Sam Darry could make a miraculous return. Ah Kuoi is the dark horse, and featured for the All Blacks XV. Isaia Walker-Leawere started both matches for the XV but can't see him getting selected ahead of any of the other options.

Loose forwards
Guaranteed - Wallace Sititi, Ardie Savea
Probable - Luke Jacobson, Ethan Blackadder, Peter Lakai, Samipeni Finau
Possible - Dalton Papali'i, Hoskins Sotutu, Simon Parker, Du'Plessis Kirifi
Papali'i was on the outer last year and hasn't done anything different this year for the Blues so it's difficult to see why Razor would change his approach here. With Savea, Lakai, Jacobson and Blackadder all capable of playing 7, there's not much need for either Papali'i or Kirifi. There might be room for a big bopper like Parker.

Halfbacks
Guaranteed - Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima
Probable - Noah Hotham
Possible - Folau Fakatava
Hotham has the inside running as the third halfback but Fakatava has made a few strides forward in recent times. The big question might be whether Hotham's availability for the Maori All Blacks will affect Razor's thinking - would it be better for him to start two games against Japan instead of holding tackle bags for the ABs, and Fakatava watching on TV?

First fives
Guaranteed - Damian McKenzie, Beauden Barrett
There are no other realistic options at 10 right now. Jacomb simply isn't ready yet. Ruben Love and Stephen Perofeta could cover the role if selected but would likely primarily feature at fullback.

Midfield
Guaranteed - Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Billy Proctor
Probable - Anton Lienert-Brown (if fit), Quinn Tupaea
Possible - David Havili, Xavi Taele, AJ Lam
With Jordie Barrett shouldering a heavy load over the past 18 months, Razor could opt for three 12 options - which may or may not include Lienert-Brown. Tupaea and Lam are probably going head-to-head for one spot, with both capable at 12 and an option on the wing. Ioane has been very average but won't drop straight out of the squad. Taele is my bolter.

Outside backs
Guaranteed - Caleb Clarke, Will Jordan, Ruben Love
Probable - Sevu Reece
Possible - Mark Tele'a, Emoni Narawa, Caleb Tangitau (if fit), Stephen Perofeta, Chay Fihaki
Jordan and Love will cover fullback, with Beauden Barrett and McKenzie also options there, so there might not be room for Perofeta, who's been underwhelming. Reece is a Razor favourite, even if he does seem too slow in open space. Tele'a will probably miss out given he's heading overseas but we know that didn't stop Razor selecting Sam Cane and (in particular) TJ Perenara last year. Narawa has been consistently good for the Chiefs while Fihaki seems to have the inside running based on last year's 'selection' (and he's definitely been playing better this year, even if he's not bashing the door down still).

sparky

@Mr-Fish Really summary of where we are at.

Maybe Reiko Ioane and Caleb Clarke are both Probables given how poor their Super Rugby has been so far this season.

Some really good players are going to miss out in the backrow.

We seem a little light in the midfield and short of real quality on the Wing. Not worried about anywhere else.

Dan54

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

Razor has hacked Dan's account

I an so proud that you think the AB coaches feel the need to hack my account!!:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Dan54

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

I wonder if that means no Hoskins

Even if fatty Ryan wasn't a hater, the problem for Hos is that he's an 8, in a team where the coach doesn't like specialists.

And the third best 8 in NZ after Savea and Sititi.

Who are the player of the year in 7, and the incumbent AB 6....

I agree about incumbent (and very good) 6 for ABs, but Ardie was player of the year at 8 (not 7).

Dan54

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

Ryan and Sotutu having had a positive chat

I can see Sotutu going overseas for the big $$$ and to play for England.

I not sure he would get in English squad. I have to admit, I not as convinced as some how good he is. Just personal thing.

As it happens, they've just announced one:
Richard Capstick
Ben Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Emeka Illione
Jack Kenningham
Tom Willis

If he was eligible for that list, I'd reckon he'd be on it.

Three of them are with the Lions though

None of them are with the Lions, three others are (and there are injuries) - nevertheless, it's the current England squad.
edit: unless that's what Dan meant - he wouldn't make the squad because he'd be with the Lions?

No, not suggesting he couldn't make Pom team, just not sure he would find it that easy. Just from what I have seen of the 8s playing there at moment, they got a few decent ones, and it probably depend on the balance of other loosies. He is probably capable of making the team (as he is of making ABs if everything fell into place), but has never given me impression of player who would be a top quality test player.

Nepia

@reprobate said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@nzzp said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

Who on earth has thought that "Ardie is not All Black level" in the last nine years?

Plenty suggested he didn't play that well last year. And they were right.

Definition of a straw man argument

and it drives particular balance requirements in the other two loosies.

The issue was not with Ardie, it was Ardie + Sam Cane left an awful lot for the 6 to do ... you needed peak Kaino to try to balance it up.

Our loose forwards have not been super impressive over the last few years

Yes. Our loosies have been a bit shit, less than the sum of their parts - and it all started with Foster making Cane captain, when Savea was the better 7. That forced Savea from 7 to 8, with both of them undroppable, and left us with no balance.
7 has always been his best position.

There's a bit of revisionism going on in this post. Ardie has always been an outstanding rugby player but that didn't always mean he was the best 7 in the country. His younger days he was the ultimate impact player. And all his player of the year nods etc, peak Ardie, have come when he's been playing 8 with the freedom to roam around.

Aside from a couple of injury effected years Cane was a better 7 (and especially for the game we played), but Ardie was a better all round rugby player.

He's definitely the best 7 going this year.

reprobate

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

I wonder if that means no Hoskins

Even if fatty Ryan wasn't a hater, the problem for Hos is that he's an 8, in a team where the coach doesn't like specialists.

And the third best 8 in NZ after Savea and Sititi.

Who are the player of the year in 7, and the incumbent AB 6....

I agree about incumbent (and very good) 6 for ABs, but Ardie was player of the year at 8 (not 7).

I mean this year Dan, Ardie would have to be red hot favourite to be super player of the year.

reprobate

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@nzzp said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

Who on earth has thought that "Ardie is not All Black level" in the last nine years?

Plenty suggested he didn't play that well last year. And they were right.

Definition of a straw man argument

and it drives particular balance requirements in the other two loosies.

The issue was not with Ardie, it was Ardie + Sam Cane left an awful lot for the 6 to do ... you needed peak Kaino to try to balance it up.

Our loose forwards have not been super impressive over the last few years

Yes. Our loosies have been a bit shit, less than the sum of their parts - and it all started with Foster making Cane captain, when Savea was the better 7. That forced Savea from 7 to 8, with both of them undroppable, and left us with no balance.
7 has always been his best position.

There's a bit of revisionism going on in this post. Ardie has always been an outstanding rugby player but that didn't always mean he was the best 7 in the country. His younger days he was the ultimate impact player. And all his player of the year nods etc, peak Ardie, have come when he's been playing 8 with the freedom to roam around.

Aside from a couple of injury effected years Cane was a better 7 (and especially for the game we played), but Ardie was a better all round rugby player.

He's definitely the best 7 going this year.

It's not revisionism. Cane was locked in as captain and that meant Ardie could outplay him all he wanted, he wasn't going to play 7 except in the case of injury. That's why he moved to 8.
I like Sam Cane, but what he is/was is a hard accurate tackler with a good workrate who cleans a lot of rucks. Historically, tell me which Michael Jones is that? It's the 6, not the 7 - and Cane has not been a better 7 than Savea for most of that time.
Peak Ardie is right now - he is playing amazing, and miles better than last year - and for me it's no coincidence that it comes with a return to 7. It's just a shame that we haven't had him there the last couple of years. You never know, Cane might have gone to 6, and you wouldn't have had to whinge about Frizz every couple of days too!

Nepia

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@nzzp said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

@booboo said in Moana Pasifika v Blues:

Who on earth has thought that "Ardie is not All Black level" in the last nine years?

Plenty suggested he didn't play that well last year. And they were right.

Definition of a straw man argument

and it drives particular balance requirements in the other two loosies.

The issue was not with Ardie, it was Ardie + Sam Cane left an awful lot for the 6 to do ... you needed peak Kaino to try to balance it up.

Our loose forwards have not been super impressive over the last few years

Yes. Our loosies have been a bit shit, less than the sum of their parts - and it all started with Foster making Cane captain, when Savea was the better 7. That forced Savea from 7 to 8, with both of them undroppable, and left us with no balance.
7 has always been his best position.

There's a bit of revisionism going on in this post. Ardie has always been an outstanding rugby player but that didn't always mean he was the best 7 in the country. His younger days he was the ultimate impact player. And all his player of the year nods etc, peak Ardie, have come when he's been playing 8 with the freedom to roam around.

Aside from a couple of injury effected years Cane was a better 7 (and especially for the game we played), but Ardie was a better all round rugby player.

He's definitely the best 7 going this year.

It's not revisionism. Cane was locked in as captain and that meant Ardie could outplay him all he wanted, he wasn't going to play 7 except in the case of injury. That's why he moved to 8.
I like Sam Cane, but what he is/was is a hard accurate tackler with a good workrate who cleans a lot of rucks. Historically, tell me which Michael Jones is that? It's the 6, not the 7 - and Cane has not been a better 7 than Savea for most of that time.
Peak Ardie is right now - he is playing amazing, and miles better than last year - and for me it's no coincidence that it comes with a return to 7. It's just a shame that we haven't had him there the last couple of years. You never know, Cane might have gone to 6, and you wouldn't have had to whinge about Frizz every couple of days too!

Up until the time Cane was made captain Ardie had never nailed himself to be a better 7 (note 7 not player in general), and when he was foolishly placed ahead of Cane at 7 in 2019 it went pear shaped.

Also, Ardie, in the period when Cane was captain, stated he preferred 8 as it gave him more freedom to do the stuff he favours (and the stuff he's awesome at).

We don't know how good a 7 Ardie was in that time as he didn't play there often. Ardie played 10 tests in 2021 when Cane was out injured and only 1 of them was at 7.

I would have supported Cane at 6. I'd prefer to not have to whinge about that useless pice of shit one tackle in a world cup final terrible human being too. Sadly Tubby Ryan means I have to.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2025