All Blacks 2025
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Blackadder is way more in the picture than people realise. He's always been perpetually injured and hardly played any Super as a result, but despite that he started every single game at 6 he was fit for last season. I suspect they see him as their "high workrate" 6 to pair with Ardie and Sititi.
In summary, in amongst plenty of brilliance from Ardie and Sititi, I expect our loosies to get smacked around in their core roles all season again.
I think we all realise he's completely in the picture regardless of whether he plays or his form ....
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Blackadder is way more in the picture than people realise. He's always been perpetually injured and hardly played any Super as a result, but despite that he started every single game at 6 he was fit for last season. I suspect they see him as their "high workrate" 6 to pair with Ardie and Sititi.
In summary, in amongst plenty of brilliance from Ardie and Sititi, I expect our loosies to get smacked around in their core roles all season again.
I think we all realise he's completely in the picture regardless of whether he plays or his form ....
Well, apart from the posters saying he's not in the picture or only a possible. I've got him locked in as a starter, the coaches absolutely love him. He must train the fucking house down between injuries.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Reece isn't a bad player at all. He has good hands, very good acceleration, very good workrate, elusive in traffic, powerful for his size. But he is small, and he's not fast for a winger, and lacks versatility. I don't think he's a terrible selection, but I think we ought to be aiming higher.
Plus good at turnovers and barks at forwards. But magic seems mostly at Super level and he can try too hard.
Narawa is more creative for others - I think he has potential at centre if he can defend there.
He's an interesting option at wing or fullback as well. Don't think we have really seen enough of him at AB level though to judge.Lam I like in midfield, and versatility is handy - but as a winger, he's just not that quick, and he's not super elusive. Again a good player, not a bad selection - but these guys aren't going to strike fear into anyone out wide.
I'm a fan of Lam but this seems a reasonable comment.
I'm a Jordan at fullback man in isolation (since they won't pick Stevenson), but unfortunately Jordan + whoever at 14 needs to be better than Barrett + Jordan at 14.
More importantly if Barrett to 15 is the only way to get him out of 10, I'd take it.Surely there are better avenues for AB selection? I'd rather have Love than Barrett at 15, for example.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
More importantly if Barrett to 15 is the only way to get him out of 10, I'd take it.
Surely there are better avenues for AB selection? I'd rather have Love than Barrett at 15, for example.
I'd like to think so, but not Love for me as I think his future is at 10, and playing him at 15 I don't see as helpful.
I don't think he has the pace or size or elusiveness to lock down the AB 15 jersey long term, whereas his ball skills and time on the ball are exceptional meaning he does look like he has the potential to be the guy to succeed McKenzie at 10 in a couple of years time. -
@sparky Haven't seen him at all since he left - actually, I've seen a few youtube highlights.
But, he's big - and fast for a centre, or he was when he left. Reports are promising, but I doubt he'll make the first AB squad.
I'd be pretty surprised if Razor hasn't been watching him a lot more closely than me, though.
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@Chris-B He won't be in this All Blacks squad. He'll need to play for Ta$man in the NPC to be eligible again so the last few fixtures of the Rugby Championship or the End Of The Year.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B He won't be in this All Blacks squad. He'll need to play for Ta$man in the NPC to be eligible again so the last few fixtures of the Rugby Championship or the End Of The Year.
He only has to play for Ta$man to be eligible which can include Warm up NPC games for Ta$man.
Likely selected in the RC squad if not definite for End of the year tour. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
So, wing.
Clark is a lock in 11, he was very good last year.
When was the last time Rieko played there? I don't think he's an option.
Reece and Narawa are similar for me - both relatively small and not extreme pace, with good skills and atypical winger strengths e.g. pick and go. I don't reckon those skills transfer to the test arena as well. Narawa/Reece are far less likely to burrow over in tight games we really want to win, regardless of how many times they do it at Super level.
I'm gutted Tangitau is injured, he was playing the house down and looked like just the player you want if Jordan is to play 15.
Carter has some good skills and reasonable pace / good acceleration, and the halfback/wing combo has some great potential re the bench, but high ball, defense, positional play I haven't seen enough yet.Rieko's been our incumbent centre for the past four years. He hasn't suddenly lost all his pace - they'll pick him at centre and back themselves to coach him back into form. Proctor is possibly the most serious contender he's faced, though - so it will be interesting to see how that duel plays out over the international season. I fully expect Rieko to be the starting 13 for France 1. I'll be extremely surprised if he appears at wing and certainly if he appears as a starting wing.
They clearly want Will to be their fullback, so he won't be starting there either, unless there's an injury crisis. They might shift him there for the last 20 minutes to accommodate Beaudy/DMac/Love.
I think Clarke and Reece are locked in with Teleá moving on. Then probably one more wing. Tangitau looked the business early on. Carter is eye-catching, but I haven't watched him closely. Narawa in the frame. But, I'm sort of thinking AJ Lam. Saw Razor saying something along the lines that they're not discounting 6-2 benches and AJ becomes a valuable commodity in those circumstances.
Edit: Sevu's got 18 test tries from 32 tests - a reasonable strike rate, but the AB database no longer readily tells me who he scored against and neither does that lazy slackarse ChatGPT - who tells me a "breakdown isn't readily available" and I could consult the AB database. Presumably it's now fucked off to the pub with the other interns!
I reckon Narawa's taller and probably a bit heavier than Sevu - possibly quicker as well - but there was evidently something that didn't appeal last year.
Reece isn't a bad player at all. He has good hands, very good acceleration, very good workrate, elusive in traffic, powerful for his size. But he is small, and he's not fast for a winger, and lacks versatility. I don't think he's a terrible selection, but I think we ought to be aiming higher. Narawa is more creative for others - I think he has potential at centre if he can defend there.
Lam I like in midfield, and versatility is handy - but as a winger, he's just not that quick, and he's not super elusive. Again a good player, not a bad selection - but these guys aren't going to strike fear into anyone out wide.
I'm a Jordan at fullback man in isolation (since they won't pick Stevenson), but unfortunately Jordan + whoever at 14 needs to be better than Barrett + Jordan at 14.
More importantly if Barrett to 15 is the only way to get him out of 10, I'd take it.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
So, wing.
Clark is a lock in 11, he was very good last year.
When was the last time Rieko played there? I don't think he's an option.
Reece and Narawa are similar for me - both relatively small and not extreme pace, with good skills and atypical winger strengths e.g. pick and go. I don't reckon those skills transfer to the test arena as well. Narawa/Reece are far less likely to burrow over in tight games we really want to win, regardless of how many times they do it at Super level.
I'm gutted Tangitau is injured, he was playing the house down and looked like just the player you want if Jordan is to play 15.
Carter has some good skills and reasonable pace / good acceleration, and the halfback/wing combo has some great potential re the bench, but high ball, defense, positional play I haven't seen enough yet.Rieko's been our incumbent centre for the past four years. He hasn't suddenly lost all his pace - they'll pick him at centre and back themselves to coach him back into form. Proctor is possibly the most serious contender he's faced, though - so it will be interesting to see how that duel plays out over the international season. I fully expect Rieko to be the starting 13 for France 1. I'll be extremely surprised if he appears at wing and certainly if he appears as a starting wing.
They clearly want Will to be their fullback, so he won't be starting there either, unless there's an injury crisis. They might shift him there for the last 20 minutes to accommodate Beaudy/DMac/Love.
I think Clarke and Reece are locked in with Teleá moving on. Then probably one more wing. Tangitau looked the business early on. Carter is eye-catching, but I haven't watched him closely. Narawa in the frame. But, I'm sort of thinking AJ Lam. Saw Razor saying something along the lines that they're not discounting 6-2 benches and AJ becomes a valuable commodity in those circumstances.
Edit: Sevu's got 18 test tries from 32 tests - a reasonable strike rate, but the AB database no longer readily tells me who he scored against and neither does that lazy slackarse ChatGPT - who tells me a "breakdown isn't readily available" and I could consult the AB database. Presumably it's now fucked off to the pub with the other interns!
I reckon Narawa's taller and probably a bit heavier than Sevu - possibly quicker as well - but there was evidently something that didn't appeal last year.
Reece isn't a bad player at all. He has good hands, very good acceleration, very good workrate, elusive in traffic, powerful for his size. But he is small, and he's not fast for a winger, and lacks versatility. I don't think he's a terrible selection, but I think we ought to be aiming higher. Narawa is more creative for others - I think he has potential at centre if he can defend there.
Lam I like in midfield, and versatility is handy - but as a winger, he's just not that quick, and he's not super elusive. Again a good player, not a bad selection - but these guys aren't going to strike fear into anyone out wide.
I'm a Jordan at fullback man in isolation (since they won't pick Stevenson), but unfortunately Jordan + whoever at 14 needs to be better than Barrett + Jordan at 14.
More importantly if Barrett to 15 is the only way to get him out of 10, I'd take it.Yeah Lam isn't quick but he is powerful and he has a habit of reliably converting opportunities into tries on the wing. I would think his speed is no slower than Reece or Fainga'anuku.
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@Chris-B He won't be in this All Blacks squad. He'll need to play for Ta$man in the NPC to be eligible again so the last few fixtures of the Rugby Championship or the End Of The Year.
@sparky That drunkard ChatGPT tells me:
Being signed to a New Zealand National Provincial Championship (NPC) team is a step toward All Blacks eligibility, but it is not sufficient on its own. To be eligible for All Blacks selection, a player must be contracted to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and be available to play for a New Zealand-based team in domestic competitions such as the NPC or Super Rugby. Actual participation in matches is not strictly required; being available for selection is the key criterion.
Make of it what you will - it's probably drinking shorts by now.
I don't think they'll start either of Leicester or Frizell, but assuming they're eligible, it wouldn't be surprising to see either in the squad.
e.g. Jordie is nailed in IMO.
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Super Rugby always makes people forget players deficiancies at test level.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
Super Rugby always makes people forget players deficiancies at test level.
Like the terrible defence that lead to the Reds' try early in the second half last weekend?
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@sparky That drunkard ChatGPT tells me:
Being signed to a New Zealand National Provincial Championship (NPC) team is a step toward All Blacks eligibility, but it is not sufficient on its own. To be eligible for All Blacks selection, a player must be contracted to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and be available to play for a New Zealand-based team in domestic competitions such as the NPC or Super Rugby. Actual participation in matches is not strictly required; being available for selection is the key criterion.
Make of it what you will - it's probably drinking shorts by now.
I don't think they'll start either of Leicester or Frizell, but assuming they're eligible, it wouldn't be surprising to see either in the squad.
e.g. Jordie is nailed in IMO.
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@Chris-B since when is Frizell returning to NZ Rugby? Isn't he loving life over in Japan with Richie and Rob Thompson
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Let's not circle jerk over Lester as the second coming just yet. He has to come back and prove he deserves a place. Except of course Razor is doing the selecting.....
On the other hand, Big Leicester's got five Super rugby winners medals, which is more than the other AB midfielders have put together. Unless you pick Dave Havili.
You chippy Canes fans!
Leicester will in as soon as they can get him in the ABs, they were keen to get him back, that wasn’t to just play SR.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Let's not circle jerk over Lester as the second coming just yet. He has to come back and prove he deserves a place. Except of course Razor is doing the selecting.....
On the other hand, Big Leicester's got five Super rugby winners medals, which is more than the other AB midfielders have put together. Unless you pick Dave Havili.
You chippy Canes fans!
Leicester will in as soon as they can get him in the ABs, they were keen to get him back, that wasn’t to just play SR.
He’ll be a good back up for Caleb Clarke
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Sparky's squad
Props: Tamati Williams, Ethan De Groot, Ollie Norris, Tyrell Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Sami Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua
Locks: Scott Barrett (c), Tupou Vaa'i, Patrick Tuipolutu, Fabian Holland, Sam Darry
Back Row: Simon Parker, Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Dalton Papali'i, Peter Lakai, Luke Jacobson
Half Backs: Cortez Ratima, Cam Roigard, Noah Hotham
First Fives: Damien McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Billy Proctor, Timoci Tavatavanawai
Back Three : Caleb Clarke, Sevu Reece, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, Caleb Tangitau
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Sparky's squad
Props: Tamati Williams, Ethan De Groot, Ollie Norris, Tyrell Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Sami Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua
Locks: Scott Barrett (c), Tupou Vaa'i, Patrick Tuipolutu, Fabian Holland, Sam Darry
Back Row: Simon Parker, Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Dalton Papali'i, Peter Lakai, Luke Jacobson
Half Backs: Cortez Ratima, Cam Roigard, Noah Hotham
First Fives: Damien McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Billy Proctor, Timoci Tavatavanawai
Back Three : Caleb Clarke, Sevu Reece, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, Caleb Tangitau
Only real question is 5 locks but only 6 loosies. Need someone to cover both, or just go 4 and 7.
Any other issues is just around the edges. Can't really see Jim knocking out Rieko.
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@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
Is this really the state of New Zealand rugby?
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@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
Does Ennor exist as a serious option in anyone's minds other than our red and black homer posters?
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For all this talk about loose forwards, people seem to be either ignorant or forgetful about our best loose forward trio in modern times. Kaino, McCaw and Read. From 2010–2015 they were just on another level culminating in two RWC wins, an undefeated season, and they bossed almost every Test they played.
How did they achieve this? With balance across the park but not just covering the others' "weakness". The GOAT was a tireless tackler, hit rucks disrupting and slowing down opposition ball he couldn't thieve. Kaino set the tone physically, but also had underrated hands and footwork - he wasn't just a battering ram. And Read possessed a great skillset, awesome in support, and could absolutely smoke blokes in defence when needed.
Between the three of them they stood 5.76 metres tall.
People attempting to argue we should run out loose forward trios with no players taller than the shortest of the above are on the far left of the bell curve.
It's Test rugby and we need to identify players that have the attributes to play effectively at that level, not audition for a SR barbarians game highlight reel.
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@sparky That drunkard ChatGPT tells me:
Being signed to a New Zealand National Provincial Championship (NPC) team is a step toward All Blacks eligibility, but it is not sufficient on its own. To be eligible for All Blacks selection, a player must be contracted to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and be available to play for a New Zealand-based team in domestic competitions such as the NPC or Super Rugby. Actual participation in matches is not strictly required; being available for selection is the key criterion.
Make of it what you will - it's probably drinking shorts by now.
I don't think they'll start either of Leicester or Frizell, but assuming they're eligible, it wouldn't be surprising to see either in the squad.
e.g. Jordie is nailed in IMO.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky That drunkard ChatGPT tells me:
Being signed to a New Zealand National Provincial Championship (NPC) team is a step toward All Blacks eligibility, but it is not sufficient on its own. To be eligible for All Blacks selection, a player must be contracted to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and be available to play for a New Zealand-based team in domestic competitions such as the NPC or Super Rugby. Actual participation in matches is not strictly required; being available for selection is the key criterion.
Make of it what you will - it's probably drinking shorts by now.
I don't think they'll start either of Leicester or Frizell, but assuming they're eligible, it wouldn't be surprising to see either in the squad.
e.g. Jordie is nailed in IMO.
He rules are flexible. If Razor wants Leicester in the squad before he's played a game of NPC then he'll be a me to get him in the squad.
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For all this talk about loose forwards, people seem to be either ignorant or forgetful about our best loose forward trio in modern times. Kaino, McCaw and Read. From 2010–2015 they were just on another level culminating in two RWC wins, an undefeated season, and they bossed almost every Test they played.
How did they achieve this? With balance across the park but not just covering the others' "weakness". The GOAT was a tireless tackler, hit rucks disrupting and slowing down opposition ball he couldn't thieve. Kaino set the tone physically, but also had underrated hands and footwork - he wasn't just a battering ram. And Read possessed a great skillset, awesome in support, and could absolutely smoke blokes in defence when needed.
Between the three of them they stood 5.76 metres tall.
People attempting to argue we should run out loose forward trios with no players taller than the shortest of the above are on the far left of the bell curve.
It's Test rugby and we need to identify players that have the attributes to play effectively at that level, not audition for a SR barbarians game highlight reel.
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let players not in possession lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows such as France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
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@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let players not in possession lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows such as France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
Precisely. We need to be ruthlessly effective at our carry cleans, dominating set piece that WR in response to the bleating of other teams and their fans change the rules to nullify us - yet again.
Playing with small athletic backrows is not a solution.
