All Blacks 2025
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Super Rugby always makes people forget players deficiancies at test level.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
Super Rugby always makes people forget players deficiancies at test level.
Like the terrible defence that lead to the Reds' try early in the second half last weekend?
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@sparky That drunkard ChatGPT tells me:
Being signed to a New Zealand National Provincial Championship (NPC) team is a step toward All Blacks eligibility, but it is not sufficient on its own. To be eligible for All Blacks selection, a player must be contracted to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and be available to play for a New Zealand-based team in domestic competitions such as the NPC or Super Rugby. Actual participation in matches is not strictly required; being available for selection is the key criterion.
Make of it what you will - it's probably drinking shorts by now.
I don't think they'll start either of Leicester or Frizell, but assuming they're eligible, it wouldn't be surprising to see either in the squad.
e.g. Jordie is nailed in IMO.
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@Chris-B since when is Frizell returning to NZ Rugby? Isn't he loving life over in Japan with Richie and Rob Thompson
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Let's not circle jerk over Lester as the second coming just yet. He has to come back and prove he deserves a place. Except of course Razor is doing the selecting.....
On the other hand, Big Leicester's got five Super rugby winners medals, which is more than the other AB midfielders have put together. Unless you pick Dave Havili.
You chippy Canes fans!
Leicester will in as soon as they can get him in the ABs, they were keen to get him back, that wasn’t to just play SR.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Let's not circle jerk over Lester as the second coming just yet. He has to come back and prove he deserves a place. Except of course Razor is doing the selecting.....
On the other hand, Big Leicester's got five Super rugby winners medals, which is more than the other AB midfielders have put together. Unless you pick Dave Havili.
You chippy Canes fans!
Leicester will in as soon as they can get him in the ABs, they were keen to get him back, that wasn’t to just play SR.
He’ll be a good back up for Caleb Clarke
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Sparky's squad
Props: Tamati Williams, Ethan De Groot, Ollie Norris, Tyrell Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Sami Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua
Locks: Scott Barrett (c), Tupou Vaa'i, Patrick Tuipolutu, Fabian Holland, Sam Darry
Back Row: Simon Parker, Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Dalton Papali'i, Peter Lakai, Luke Jacobson
Half Backs: Cortez Ratima, Cam Roigard, Noah Hotham
First Fives: Damien McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Billy Proctor, Timoci Tavatavanawai
Back Three : Caleb Clarke, Sevu Reece, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, Caleb Tangitau
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Sparky's squad
Props: Tamati Williams, Ethan De Groot, Ollie Norris, Tyrell Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Sami Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua
Locks: Scott Barrett (c), Tupou Vaa'i, Patrick Tuipolutu, Fabian Holland, Sam Darry
Back Row: Simon Parker, Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Dalton Papali'i, Peter Lakai, Luke Jacobson
Half Backs: Cortez Ratima, Cam Roigard, Noah Hotham
First Fives: Damien McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Billy Proctor, Timoci Tavatavanawai
Back Three : Caleb Clarke, Sevu Reece, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, Caleb Tangitau
Only real question is 5 locks but only 6 loosies. Need someone to cover both, or just go 4 and 7.
Any other issues is just around the edges. Can't really see Jim knocking out Rieko.
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@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
Is this really the state of New Zealand rugby?
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@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
Does Ennor exist as a serious option in anyone's minds other than our red and black homer posters?
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For all this talk about loose forwards, people seem to be either ignorant or forgetful about our best loose forward trio in modern times. Kaino, McCaw and Read. From 2010–2015 they were just on another level culminating in two RWC wins, an undefeated season, and they bossed almost every Test they played.
How did they achieve this? With balance across the park but not just covering the others' "weakness". The GOAT was a tireless tackler, hit rucks disrupting and slowing down opposition ball he couldn't thieve. Kaino set the tone physically, but also had underrated hands and footwork - he wasn't just a battering ram. And Read possessed a great skillset, awesome in support, and could absolutely smoke blokes in defence when needed.
Between the three of them they stood 5.76 metres tall.
People attempting to argue we should run out loose forward trios with no players taller than the shortest of the above are on the far left of the bell curve.
It's Test rugby and we need to identify players that have the attributes to play effectively at that level, not audition for a SR barbarians game highlight reel.
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@sparky That drunkard ChatGPT tells me:
Being signed to a New Zealand National Provincial Championship (NPC) team is a step toward All Blacks eligibility, but it is not sufficient on its own. To be eligible for All Blacks selection, a player must be contracted to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and be available to play for a New Zealand-based team in domestic competitions such as the NPC or Super Rugby. Actual participation in matches is not strictly required; being available for selection is the key criterion.
Make of it what you will - it's probably drinking shorts by now.
I don't think they'll start either of Leicester or Frizell, but assuming they're eligible, it wouldn't be surprising to see either in the squad.
e.g. Jordie is nailed in IMO.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky That drunkard ChatGPT tells me:
Being signed to a New Zealand National Provincial Championship (NPC) team is a step toward All Blacks eligibility, but it is not sufficient on its own. To be eligible for All Blacks selection, a player must be contracted to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and be available to play for a New Zealand-based team in domestic competitions such as the NPC or Super Rugby. Actual participation in matches is not strictly required; being available for selection is the key criterion.
Make of it what you will - it's probably drinking shorts by now.
I don't think they'll start either of Leicester or Frizell, but assuming they're eligible, it wouldn't be surprising to see either in the squad.
e.g. Jordie is nailed in IMO.
He rules are flexible. If Razor wants Leicester in the squad before he's played a game of NPC then he'll be a me to get him in the squad.
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For all this talk about loose forwards, people seem to be either ignorant or forgetful about our best loose forward trio in modern times. Kaino, McCaw and Read. From 2010–2015 they were just on another level culminating in two RWC wins, an undefeated season, and they bossed almost every Test they played.
How did they achieve this? With balance across the park but not just covering the others' "weakness". The GOAT was a tireless tackler, hit rucks disrupting and slowing down opposition ball he couldn't thieve. Kaino set the tone physically, but also had underrated hands and footwork - he wasn't just a battering ram. And Read possessed a great skillset, awesome in support, and could absolutely smoke blokes in defence when needed.
Between the three of them they stood 5.76 metres tall.
People attempting to argue we should run out loose forward trios with no players taller than the shortest of the above are on the far left of the bell curve.
It's Test rugby and we need to identify players that have the attributes to play effectively at that level, not audition for a SR barbarians game highlight reel.
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let players not in possession lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows such as France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
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@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let players not in possession lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows such as France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
Precisely. We need to be ruthlessly effective at our carry cleans, dominating set piece that WR in response to the bleating of other teams and their fans change the rules to nullify us - yet again.
Playing with small athletic backrows is not a solution.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
So, wing.
Clark is a lock in 11, he was very good last year.
When was the last time Rieko played there? I don't think he's an option.
Reece and Narawa are similar for me - both relatively small and not extreme pace, with good skills and atypical winger strengths e.g. pick and go. I don't reckon those skills transfer to the test arena as well. Narawa/Reece are far less likely to burrow over in tight games we really want to win, regardless of how many times they do it at Super level.
I'm gutted Tangitau is injured, he was playing the house down and looked like just the player you want if Jordan is to play 15.
Carter has some good skills and reasonable pace / good acceleration, and the halfback/wing combo has some great potential re the bench, but high ball, defense, positional play I haven't seen enough yet.Rieko's been our incumbent centre for the past four years. He hasn't suddenly lost all his pace - they'll pick him at centre and back themselves to coach him back into form. Proctor is possibly the most serious contender he's faced, though - so it will be interesting to see how that duel plays out over the international season. I fully expect Rieko to be the starting 13 for France 1. I'll be extremely surprised if he appears at wing and certainly if he appears as a starting wing.
They clearly want Will to be their fullback, so he won't be starting there either, unless there's an injury crisis. They might shift him there for the last 20 minutes to accommodate Beaudy/DMac/Love.
I think Clarke and Reece are locked in with Teleá moving on. Then probably one more wing. Tangitau looked the business early on. Carter is eye-catching, but I haven't watched him closely. Narawa in the frame. But, I'm sort of thinking AJ Lam. Saw Razor saying something along the lines that they're not discounting 6-2 benches and AJ becomes a valuable commodity in those circumstances.
AJ Lam has been the Blues best back this year.
He was around the squad at the eoyt last year. He was sitting with the team against Ireland and France so I think he will be in Razor and co thinking. We will see whether it's enough for selection.
He's a big unit and has better conditioning than Tavatavanawai. He offers utility that Carter doesn't and size that Narawa doesn't.
He kind of needs to get selected now to get in the mix so he can establish himself before Fainga'anuku comes back.
That said I think Tele'a will probably be in there regardless of current form.
I think they'll be conservative for France and they will pick minimal players they haven't worked with before - in fact I'd be surprised if there are any new players. Carter doesn't strike me as an international player.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
Precisely. We need to be ruthlessly effective at our carry cleans, dominating set piece that WR in response to the bleating of other teams and their fans change the rules to nullify us - yet again.
Playing with small athletic backrows is not a solution.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
Precisely. We need to be ruthlessly effective at our carry cleans, dominating set piece that WR in response to the bleating of other teams and their fans change the rules to nullify us - yet again.
Playing with small athletic backrows is not a solution.
Razor has yet to demonstrate if he has the necessary pragmatism and ability to evolve, or if he is a one trick pony with no tactical plan B
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean I'd also argue that in response to that trio and their dominance World Rugby has let more players lie on the ground more, let fame hungry referees interfere in the game more and slowed the pace of the game down to a snail's pace. Sides with giant back rows, France, Ireland and most of all South Africa have profited.
WR appear to have little interest in making the game more dynamic. They prefer an NFL style setpiece game. Until we beat them at their own game they won't be in any hurry to change
As far as I'm aware, World Rugby are very willing partners in (/behind) many of the changes we've seen at Super Rugby level. Super Rugby as a competition is much more open to trialling things, which is why most changes tend to come through the south first as a 'proof of concept' before the north can be convinced. It's the old unions that are often against the changes, not WR.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
Does Ennor exist as a serious option in anyone's minds other than our red and black homer posters?
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B I saw him play against Glasgow Warriors in December and Leicester was the Man of the Match. He's a similar sort of player to Braydon Ennor these days.
Does Ennor exist as a serious option in anyone's minds other than our red and black homer posters?
He's looked good at times but he seems to be injured as much if not more than Glassadder. He looked pretty average against the Chiefs a few weeks ago.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai."Run them off their feet" means "we are uncharacteristically gassed early in the second half"
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai."Run them off their feet" means "we are uncharacteristically gassed early in the second half"
We have a forward pack that can take on any side so i think the best approach is too vary our game, up the middle, kicking, pick n go, out wide,
We need to stress defences and be less predictable.
The easiest attack to defend against is the one that is predictable
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The settled nature of this relatively strong AB side means Razor should throw caution to the wind and try the form options at 6, 13, wings and 15.
It would be crazy if guys like Parker, Lakai, ,Love and Proctor don't get a good run.
