All Blacks 2025
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
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As others have pointed out, I think the only thing that type of gameplan achieved was exhausting our tight forwards.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
As others have pointed out, I think the only thing that type of gameplan achieved was exhausting our tight forwards.
We have to temper the headless chook stuff in favour of a little more control
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
Yeah it was a tasty combo but at the end of the day we didn't win two world cups with them.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
Yeah it was a tasty combo but at the end of the day we didn't win two world cups with them.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
Yeah it was a tasty combo but at the end of the day we didn't win two world cups with them.
Yeah both the Wellington boys breaking down at similar times didn’t help either
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
Yeah it was a tasty combo but at the end of the day we didn't win two world cups with them.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
Yeah it was a tasty combo but at the end of the day we didn't win two world cups with them.
2007 hurt, that was to be their crowning glory
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
JC was a cult figure but him and big head over Kaino and Read? You're dreaming.
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@Canes4life Think he's said many times before, wants to play 13, not wing, it's been 5 years, I would trust him more than Proctor and Ennor or others come Test time, completely different level, been there and done it and still world class, and same with Jordie at 12, , that's the way I see it.
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Think he's said many times before, wants to play 13, not wing, it's been 5 years, I would trust him more than Proctor and Ennor or others come Test time, completely different level, been there and done it and still world class, and same with Jordie at 12, , that's the way I see it.
I’m not sure what metrics you use to classify Ioane as being a ‘world class’ centre because he isn’t one. If he was then most of NZ wouldn’t be calling for him to be dropped.
Ioane could have been one of our greatest wings if he stayed there but he didn’t and time is ticking for him to perform in the position he chose.
I mean our best winger in the country has barely scored a try this super season, kind of says it all really. We need a centre that knows how to manipulate space and put our wingers away, the AB game will be better for it.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
JC was a cult figure but him and big head over Kaino and Read? You're dreaming.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
JC was a cult figure but him and big head over Kaino and Read? You're dreaming.
I said "my favourite" not who was the best. JC was everyone's favourite player and Rodders wasn't far behind. Part of a damn good trio.
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Think he's said many times before, wants to play 13, not wing, it's been 5 years, I would trust him more than Proctor and Ennor or others come Test time, completely different level, been there and done it and still world class, and same with Jordie at 12, , that's the way I see it.
I’m not sure what metrics you use to classify Ioane as being a ‘world class’ centre because he isn’t one. If he was then most of NZ wouldn’t be calling for him to be dropped.
Ioane could have been one of our greatest wings if he stayed there but he didn’t and time is ticking for him to perform in the position he chose.
I mean our best winger in the country has barely scored a try this super season, kind of says it all really. We need a centre that knows how to manipulate space and put our wingers away, the AB game will be better for it.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Think he's said many times before, wants to play 13, not wing, it's been 5 years, I would trust him more than Proctor and Ennor or others come Test time, completely different level, been there and done it and still world class, and same with Jordie at 12, , that's the way I see it.
I’m not sure what metrics you use to classify Ioane as being a ‘world class’ centre because he isn’t one. If he was then most of NZ wouldn’t be calling for him to be dropped.
He was one of our best at the WC. 2 poor Super seasons and a mediocre international one certainly make that seem like a long time ago, but it did happen.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
JC was a cult figure but him and big head over Kaino and Read? You're dreaming.
I said "my favourite" not who was the best. JC was everyone's favourite player and Rodders wasn't far behind. Part of a damn good trio.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
I said "my favourite" not who was the best. JC was everyone's favourite player and Rodders wasn't far behind. Part of a damn good trio.
That's fair enough.
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While he can still pull out a good performance here and there, BBs best days are behind him. I think he is a liability to the development of the team as we move to 2027, Beaudy is taking time away from potential successors
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
While he can still pull out a good performance here and there, BBs best days are behind him. I think he is a liability to the development of the team as we move to 2027, Beaudy is taking time away from potential successors
When NZR signed a long-ish contract with him, I assumed the strategy was using him on the bench or providing an experienced backup allowing Robertson to blood new players at 10 and 15.
How wrong I was.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2025:
Not sure why Christie is so vilified on here.
Slow service
Inconsistent passer
Poor option taker
Slow option taker
Struggles with messy ball
Has poor feel for the position
High error rate
Tries to do too muchThere's a few reasons
Ginger
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2025:
Not sure why Christie is so vilified on here.
Slow service
Inconsistent passer
Poor option taker
Slow option taker
Struggles with messy ball
Has poor feel for the position
High error rate
Tries to do too muchThere's a few reasons
Ginger
Was gonna post it but you beat me to it :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
I love to see Beaudy dropped for Ruben Love as the second 10-15.
Beaudy isn't going to make it to 2027 and be any good. So what is Razor waiting for?
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
I love to see Beaudy dropped for Ruben Love as the second 10-15.
Beaudy isn't going to make it to 2027 and be any good. So what is Razor waiting for?
What was Foster waiting for as well? The decline has been long and gradual.
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I don't think Ratima is very strong tactically, but has speed and toughness and plays to patterns. Cam is easily number one. Be good to have 2 others available with different strengths in my view. Not sure why Christie is so vilified on here.
I am not fully convinced by Lakai yet. He is high action, but not sure on how he matches up physically compared to other loosie contenders. I think ABs will value that physical impact greatly.
Procter is a must for 13 in my view. And I want to see how Ollie Norris would go.
It all makes for plenty of scrutiny in remaining super matches.@ARHS said in All Blacks 2025:
Not sure why Christie is so vilified on here.
See where you're coming from. Good, solid servant from the bench. Probably the best option for '23/24.
Proved to be a bit of a liability starting at Test level. Way better options now available in Ratima, Roigard & Hotham
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
While he can still pull out a good performance here and there, BBs best days are behind him. I think he is a liability to the development of the team as we move to 2027, Beaudy is taking time away from potential successors
When NZR signed a long-ish contract with him, I assumed the strategy was using him on the bench or providing an experienced backup allowing Robertson to blood new players at 10 and 15.
How wrong I was.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
While he can still pull out a good performance here and there, BBs best days are behind him. I think he is a liability to the development of the team as we move to 2027, Beaudy is taking time away from potential successors
When NZR signed a long-ish contract with him, I assumed the strategy was using him on the bench or providing an experienced backup allowing Robertson to blood new players at 10 and 15.
How wrong I was.
Robertson selected DMac as 1st choice 1st 5 from his first test, you know the less experienced guy who had not been the guy in 2023. And SP, the relatively green and inexperienced guy was selected at fullback. Barrett, the experienced backup on the bench.
So a tick, tick right?
Second test, the same selections. More ticks.
3rd, 4th and 5th tests DMac is still at 10. But we have a problem at fullback with Perofeta, so Tobertson selects Barrett at fullback and should’ve bit the bullet at that point and selected Jordan - which he eventually got to for the second Boks tests, the Bledisloe and all the bigger games for the NH tour. So new fullback blooded. Tick.
And SP also started a NH test at fullback. Tick.
So after Bledisloe I there is an issue with DMac, so he is replaced by Barrett for 3 of the final 5 tests as the starter. No tick.
There was intent and endeavour, with those selections, and some missed opportunities as well but hardly all wrong.
This season we will see a much improved Love (didn’t think he played that well last season) make his move. And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
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Everyone on here should be happy. The team is pretty settled.
2-3 years ago we literally didn't have a front row or a mid field. The game plan was chaotic.
Then Ryan arrived.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Everyone on here should be happy. The team is pretty settled.
2-3 years ago we literally didn't have a front row or a mid field. The game plan was chaotic.
Then Ryan arrived.Things are certainly better than they were mid-way through the Foster era.
But, I'll be pleased when we are Number 1 in the world. I'll be happy when we have the William Webb Ellis trophy safely back in the All Blacks Captain's hands. I'll be satisfied when there is daylight between ourselves and all other international sides in the world. That's the natural order of things.
