All Blacks 2025
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
On speed of loosies, McCaw wasn't exactly a speed merchant either. More important than speed, particularly for a loosie playing the tighter role, is a big engine and great game awareness which allows them to get themselves in the right position more often than not.
True, up to a point.
Like someone said with height at the lineout - it's not an issue until it's a big issue. If you aren't fast, you start needing other players who are around you - and then that changes the balance of the trio. And if you aren't fast enough and you go up against players who are faster, that can be a real problem. Also, early McCaw was quick!
We're looking at stats when they can be misleading - part of the issue with early Hooper and with Adam Thomson were they got to lots of places but didn't have a big impact when they did. Razor loves multi-position players, which means you dno't get specialists (by definition) ... and I think that is a real problem at Test level. EB is great in many ways, but he is not fast - seems to struggle to run at times - and I don't think is quick enough to be a 7 in Tests. Obviously Razor and Ryan disagree with me though.
Ethan's not really fast enough to be an elite 7. He can obviously play there - he's spent quite a lot of this Super season there - but it's not his best position.
He's a smallish 6. If they want a big 6 they'll pick Finau or Parker - maybe both.
But, Ethan is a probably slightly bigger version of Liam Messam, who went alright.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
On speed of loosies, McCaw wasn't exactly a speed merchant either. More important than speed, particularly for a loosie playing the tighter role, is a big engine and great game awareness which allows them to get themselves in the right position more often than not.
True, up to a point.
Like someone said with height at the lineout - it's not an issue until it's a big issue. If you aren't fast, you start needing other players who are around you - and then that changes the balance of the trio. And if you aren't fast enough and you go up against players who are faster, that can be a real problem. Also, early McCaw was quick!
We're looking at stats when they can be misleading - part of the issue with early Hooper and with Adam Thomson were they got to lots of places but didn't have a big impact when they did. Razor loves multi-position players, which means you dno't get specialists (by definition) ... and I think that is a real problem at Test level. EB is great in many ways, but he is not fast - seems to struggle to run at times - and I don't think is quick enough to be a 7 in Tests. Obviously Razor and Ryan disagree with me though.
Ethan's not really fast enough to be an elite 7. He can obviously play there - he's spent quite a lot of this Super season there - but it's not his best position.
He's a smallish 6. If they want a big 6 they'll pick Finau or Parker - maybe both.
But, Ethan is a probably slightly bigger version of Liam Messam, who went alright.
Messam had the pace of a back and was a lot harder hitter in defence.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
That matches what I've been seeing, the Dutchman has some motor, and the other 3 would all be targeting the international season. Pick him I reckon.
If he can put a few more kg on and keep the workrate he has a heap of potential. It's only really his emergence along with Vaai arguably outplaying Barrett last year which makes Barretts spot look anything less than rock solid. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
That matches what I've been seeing, the Dutchman has some motor, and the other 3 would all be targeting the international season. Pick him I reckon.
If he can put a few more kg on and keep the workrate he has a heap of potential. It's only really his emergence along with Vaai arguably outplaying Barrett last year which makes Barretts spot look anything less than rock solid.He's already 120kg isn't he? I think Holland should be there. Unfortunately it looks like Lord and Darry are going the way of Blackadder with their injuries.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
That matches what I've been seeing, the Dutchman has some motor, and the other 3 would all be targeting the international season. Pick him I reckon.
If he can put a few more kg on and keep the workrate he has a heap of potential. It's only really his emergence along with Vaai arguably outplaying Barrett last year which makes Barretts spot look anything less than rock solid.He's already 120kg isn't he? I think Holland should be there. Unfortunately it looks like Lord and Darry are going the way of Blackadder with their injuries.
Dunno, he just still looks a little on the lean side to me, and feel a few more kg would help in the collision areas at the top level. As good as Barrett is in all the ways you point out, if we look at our current lineout of him vaai savea sititi vs a retallick whitelock read kaino one, we are not close to the same class.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
One of the best maulers around too on attack and defence.
and a workrate that is off the charts. Man he gets involved a lot - not always good outcomes, but his motor is massive
Yeah the workrate stats are interesting this year.
Locks Contact Involvements Per 80 Minutes ( Carries + Rucks + Tackles )
64.84 Zach Gallagher
58.89 Will Stodart
56.07 Isaia Walker-Leawere
54.02 Jamie Hannah
53.5 Cameron Suafoa
53.09 Fabian Holland
52.83 Caleb Delany
50.23 Josh Lord
49.83 Naitoa Ah Kuoi
49.45 Josh Beehre
48.99 Scott Barrett
47.3 Tupou Vaa'i
46.86 Patrick Tuipulotu
46.47 Antonio Shalfoon
43.36 Allan Craig
40.74 Mitchell DunsheaBased off theanalyst stats.
Of those guys, Holland would be the first actually playing 80 minutes maybe?
Yeah Holland,Barrett,Vai,Tuipulotu are the only ones playing 80 min consistently.
That matches what I've been seeing, the Dutchman has some motor, and the other 3 would all be targeting the international season. Pick him I reckon.
If he can put a few more kg on and keep the workrate he has a heap of potential. It's only really his emergence along with Vaai arguably outplaying Barrett last year which makes Barretts spot look anything less than rock solid.He's already 120kg isn't he? I think Holland should be there. Unfortunately it looks like Lord and Darry are going the way of Blackadder with their injuries.
Dunno, he just still looks a little on the lean side to me, and feel a few more kg would help in the collision areas at the top level. As good as Barrett is in all the ways you point out, if we look at our current lineout of him vaai savea sititi vs a retallick whitelock read kaino one, we are not close to the same class.
Holland is listed at 124kg. Which would make him the heaviest out of the AB locking options. Don't know if you want him going too much heavier. Potentially losing his mobility.
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@chucknz said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate they are arguably the greatest collection of locks and loosies in the history of the game
Sure, but I'm just talking about the lineout skills.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 Boyd.
Ethan's run bronco times fractionally behind McCaw's.
He's not close to McCaw as a rugby player though.
If that's the bar then it's going to be a pretty small squad mate.
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Holland feels the obvious addition to the squad, he's been a bright spot for the Landers. His defensive workrate has been pretty fucking good - 207 tackle attempts at 92% effectiveness, 10% dominant. He has hit nearly 250 rucks on attack at about 80% effectiveness. A total of 75 carries, 21% dominant.
That stacks up very well against the other options.
Vaai has 96 tackle attempts at 88% effectiveness, 4% dominant. He has hit about 210 rucks on attack at about 90% effectiveness. A total of 106 carries, 31% dominant.
Barrett has 154 tackle attempts at 88% effectiveness, 8% dominant. He has hit about 220 rucks on attack at about 85% effectiveness. A total of 78 carries, 20% dominant.
Certainly seems that the boy has a motor and big dominant tackler around the ruck sounds really nice, alongside his line out work.
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@gt12 Barrett has certainly got more active in the latter half of the season. I do think that his program was a little different given what is to come later this year for the AB captain. Not too dissimilar to what I saw from McCaw and Read previously with how they built during super rugby.
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
If they go with 5 locks then add Tuipoluto and Darry to above 3.
