All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years
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hearing he is def in the frame, but has that injury that will likely have him play no part in the super finals, even if the Chiefs go all the way.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Flanders certainly has the skills to hang out on the wing all day.
Flanders to Finau: "you merely adopted the wing. I was born on the wing"
Most tackles and most carries for the Canes vs Brumbies wasn't it?
Don't normally see wingers with those stats... -
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Flanders certainly has the skills to hang out on the wing all day.
Flanders to Finau: "you merely adopted the wing. I was born on the wing"
Most tackles and most carries for the Canes vs Brumbies wasn't it?
Don't normally see wingers with those stats...It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
I think LJ had a chance to be the long term AB8 but that injury fucked everything up. With Sititi coming, I cant see Jacobson playing 8 even for the Chiefs let along for the ABs.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Flanders certainly has the skills to hang out on the wing all day.
Flanders to Finau: "you merely adopted the wing. I was born on the wing"
Most tackles and most carries for the Canes vs Brumbies wasn't it?
Don't normally see wingers with those stats...It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
I'm in no way sure he's the answer to anything bro, just another interesting option. I do wish you would stop it with the writing off individual players contributions if their team doesn't win though. Aaron Smith wasn't poor despite the Highlanders being shit most of the time.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Flanders certainly has the skills to hang out on the wing all day.
Flanders to Finau: "you merely adopted the wing. I was born on the wing"
Most tackles and most carries for the Canes vs Brumbies wasn't it?
Don't normally see wingers with those stats...It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
Not sure we are looking for a 6 to attack the ball, they can’t do everything.
Hitting attacking rucks as a cleaner (and therefore preventing turnovers) feels very much like what we may be looking for, but team stats won’t help - a guy cant be responsible if his position in the attack strategy is two wide and the turnovers are coming because of poor cleans by others.
Similarly, that lack of turnovers probably speaks to how well the Brumbies prevented Kirifi from getting good opportunities. He’s apparently is the most efficient (turnovers / penalties) in Super rugby, so if he isn’t getting opportunities, the Brumbies are doing a good job cleaning and poorer ball attackers may be even more likely to concede penalties.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Flanders certainly has the skills to hang out on the wing all day.
Flanders to Finau: "you merely adopted the wing. I was born on the wing"
Most tackles and most carries for the Canes vs Brumbies wasn't it?
Don't normally see wingers with those stats...It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
I'm in no way sure he's the answer to anything bro, just another interesting option. I do wish you would stop it with the writing off individual players contributions if their team doesn't win though. Aaron Smith wasn't poor despite the Highlanders being shit most of the time.
Look I dont mean to write off his contribution. It was good but it seems to me that maybe he and the Canes loosies didnt put enough focus on the attacking breakdown.
Btw Razor and co wrote off Sotutu's individual contribution for an entire season in a winning team last year. I guess although his contribution was great for the Blues it wasn't the kind of contribution they thought they needed for the ABs at test level.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem
it's more for the main thread, but my main hope for this year is, by the time the Northern Tour is completed, that this AB side has a clear identity.
Every other top national side has a very defined manner in which they play. What's cool is, they are all totally different. But the main thing is, you know what they are going to try to do, and it's up to you to stop it.I have no fucking clue what our plan is, what our structure is, how we intend to generate points or apply pressure to the opposition weak spots. For most of last year it looked like "have DMac touch the ball 100 times and hope he creates something" until it suddenly wasn't.
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Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
see, you say that with such confidence, and then you look at the team sheet.
Pick two poor distributors in the midfield and play them flat and tight. Drop your best passer at 10 and put in an instinctive run-first player who kicks a LOT.
The plan, and the players selected, do not match up
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@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
see, you say that with such confidence, and then you look at the team sheet.
Pick two poor distributors in the midfield and play them flat and tight. Drop your best passer at 10 and put in an instinctive run-first player who kicks a LOT.
The plan, and the players selected, do not match up
Exactly this.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
The problem is our high-temp game seems to be to pick "quick and busy" loose forwards so we can win the race to the breakdown (hence our love of 7.5's) but that detracts from our ability to carry the ball into contact with heavy runners hence we endlessly recycle the ball going sideways across the field if we encounter stout defence and then our playmakers give away possession with a stupid kick or hail Mary pass.
If we don't get go-forward our back up or play or territory plays are quite simply stupid and fustrating, pull the forwards together and pick and go, or slow things down, set a chase line and kick and chase a contestable kick but more than often we hail mary, silly chip kick, or put up a high ball with only 1 person chasing or contesting....
The above has been my endless fustration with the AB team for years, as it was under Fozzie and now as it is under Razor, nothing really appers to have changed.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
I disagree with the premise of 'tight' versus 'loose' (or at least his application and sorting of the options), but I'm with him on the overall point and enjoyed the analysis. you're right, we are very engaged fans but probably can't say with any real confidence how the coaches want the team to play. If that is the side to side Crusaders game plan, then we'll need some very different players. I can see that @mariner4life has already beaten me to the punch on this, but at the minimum we'll need a very different midfield.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Against France the pattern seemed very similar to the Crusaders style. There was a lot of ball movement to the wider channels. The same approach was used against England in the first tests.
It's a high speed, high mobility game plan.
The plan, and the players selected, do not match up
That's easily explained. They also have a compulsion to pick experience.
Their bias to selecting Crusaders in the wider squad suggests they want to pick players who are familiar with that game. Players who they originally picked for the Crusaders squad to match that game plan.
They have conflicting heuristics.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
The problem is our high-temp game seems to be to pick "quick and busy" loose forwards so we can win the race to the breakdown (hence our love of 7.5's) but that detracts from our ability to carry the ball into contact with heavy runners hence we endlessly recycle the ball going sideways across the field if we encounter stout defence and then our playmakers give away possession with a stupid kick or hail Mary pass.
If we don't get go-forward our back up or play or territory plays are quite simply stupid and fustrating, pull the forwards together and pick and go, or slow things down, set a chase line and kick and chase a contestable kick but more than often we hail mary, silly chip kick, or put up a high ball with only 1 person chasing or contesting....
The above has been my endless fustration with the AB team for years, as it was under Fozzie and now as it is under Razor, nothing really appers to have changed.
More often than not, there is one player who continually does this, and he keeps getting picked and praised by the coaches.
